Damage system sucks - fix needed

[Bouben 3]

...I'm taking my business elsewhere.

I am wondering... where? :)

[gibonez 18]

Any updates in this regards ?

Good chance marksmen dlc fixes the damage model ?

[twisted 128]

IMO ballistics are not the biggest problem, but as the OP said damage non-localisation.

In every part of the series it was like this: you get shot in the leg, you can only crawl. You get shot in the arm, your aim is way off. Two shots in the chest will down a man (just tested in A2 vanilla and ace to make sure).

A3 completely different. Takes 5 shots to chest to down an enemy. For every shot he will do that freaking, hateful, twitch. And there is absolutely no difference from the AI being hit in the head from being hit in the arm or chest, each part takes the same amount of hits before being killed.

It's exactly like the old shooters (Quake, Doom, first CoD, etc.) where you had a health counter and you can function completely fine with 1% health.

One of the things that piss me off the most about A3 is when I get hit in the legs, instead of falling to the ground I start walking, very very slowly and that UPRIGHT. WHERE is the sense in that, where is the LOGIC?! Since when do you straighten up when a bullet shatters your knee?!?!?! Inevitably it ends to miserable end since you're such a lovely, stationary, UPRIGHT and thus big target for the enemy. Instead of lying on the ground where you are a smaller target that also has less weapon sway (the fact that the vanilla still doesn't have weapon supporting/leaning is another big peeve for me).

Agree with you on these. They need sorting out. Those ofp wounding systems added a little depth. And the slow walk while wounded is one of the most infuriating things in the game. Proper responses to being hit are also crucial, that jerk is not good, it's important that if shooting is to be improved as the marksman mod promises then the rewards and effects are also improved. I think I read in the Dlc update something about that.

[Wiki 1558]

I fear they won't come back to a proper damage system - at least not in ArmA 3.

Would have them rework too much things.

[twisted 128]

I want a nice proper wounding system and to do away with hitpoints (though you always need them to some extent). I also am waiting and hoping and don't expect BIS to deliver anything now or even years down the road. I would rather it be done proper than "bandaged". But I do think that are some things regarding wounding that need to be done now because it is generally agreed that it takes away from thee enjoyment of the game. What needs to be done ASAP?

Proper AI And Player Reactions To Hits: I don't care if we have the most basic hitpoint wounding system, this needs to be fixed. The little twitch that player and ai receive upon being hit isn't nearly enough.

Ideally there would be several different reactions that would all have a random probability of playing out depending on the severity of the wound - maybe that's to complex though. But at the very least we need:

• Extremely severe but temporary (2-5sec) aiming decrease for ai - they should literally be sprayingg all other the place. Could be extended player to in the form of sway or recoil.
  
• Random chance of ragdoll or better yet an animation based on the location hit and severity of hit - for both ai and player.
  
• 
  

BIS you really need these. This does seem to be becoming a big issue and one of "those reasons" why people can't get into arma. There is tonnes more that could be added ontop, but these are the bare necessities - without them people are just going to stop playing, because ai is a huge part of this game and no matter how good the playground is, if you have only bullies to play with you're not going to have fun. I am not the first to mention this and its actually already possible to script in. I use an event handler to trigger massive temporary drops in ai accuracy and TPW's mods does a good job too. But there is no reason this kind of behaviour shouldn't be in vanilla as well. I can't imagine anyone being in opposition to it. And it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to implement though I am really in no position to make that assessment.

A complex wounding/medical system can wait - a rudimentary reaction to fire for players and especially for ai cannot. I hope its high on the todo list.

This, very much so. Would make the shooting experience much more rewarding with proper feedback.

[SIlenceFiction 13]

2.5 Years later and we are still in the same spot about this... :(

[twisted 128]

2.5 Years later and we are still in the same spot about this... :(

 

well, there are blood splats, those are cool if understated. But the spasm on being hit needs serious work. As does reducing accuracy/ability to function based on hit dammage. Coulum summed it up pretty well as always.

[Mirek 166]

They still didnt fix that? 8-o

[jamie1992 17]

Slight thread bump. Sorry.

 

But I would like to agree with this notion, the damage systems SERIOUSLY sucks.

 

Was playing Antistasi with a few friends last night, fighting the AAF. And they seem to just tank rounds. I'm not sure why I need to shoot someone who is merely 20m out who is wearing only a Bandolier chest rig 3-4 times mid mass with 7.62 rounds to get the kill. Not to mention that hitting a person with a .50/12.7mm seems to lose MASSIVE amounts of damage as range slightly increases. 500m away is NOT going to stop a .50 from tearing you a new one. And even if by some sheer chance that your plates stop that MASSIVE round going at that extreme velocity and exerting such an extreme amount of force. The sheer force from the impact is going to incapacitate you to some variance, lets face it a .50 hits...DAMN hard. 

 

This doesn't even mention the fact that I can hit a guy in his leg with a .50 whilst he has no armor on his legs, and he is able to still keep running and fighting fine. This needs fixing. Especially as human players can be killed from one round whilst wearing Level 6 plates against a 5.56 hitting them mid mass. It's illogical, unfair and quite frankly...stupid as hell.

[Excilium 0]

Yeah, the system is kinda flawed IMO.

[calin_banc 19]

Was playing Antistasi with a few friends last night, fighting the AAF. And they seem to just tank rounds. I'm not sure why I need to shoot someone who is merely 20m out who is wearing only a Bandolier chest rig 3-4 times mid mass with 7.62 rounds to get the kill. Not to mention that hitting a person with a .50/12.7mm seems to lose MASSIVE amounts of damage as range slightly increases. 500m away is NOT going to stop a .50 from tearing you a new one. And even if by some sheer chance that your plates stop that MASSIVE round going at that extreme velocity and exerting such an extreme amount of force. The sheer force from the impact is going to incapacitate you to some variance, lets face it a .50 hits...DAMN hard. 

 

This doesn't even mention the fact that I can hit a guy in his leg with a .50 whilst he has no armor on his legs, and he is able to still keep running and fighting fine. This needs fixing. Especially as human players can be killed from one round whilst wearing Level 6 plates against a 5.56 hitting them mid mass. It's illogical, unfair and quite frankly...stupid as hell.

 

The problem is with the server/mod/whatever. 7.62 kills in one shot and so does a pistol round if there is no protection. .50/12.7 also kills in one hit even close to 900m from what I've tested using the BEST body armor provided in the game via the sniper dlc. Of course, you have to actually HIT the target, 'cause sometimes it seems it misses and even more so with the 7.62 rifles available - at that range. 7.62 is still one shot if it hits unprotected areas.

[jamie1992 17]

The problem is with the server/mod/whatever. 7.62 kills in one shot and so does a pistol round if there is no protection. .50/12.7 also kills in one hit even close to 900m from what I've tested using the BEST body armor provided in the game via the sniper dlc. Of course, you have to actually HIT the target, 'cause sometimes it seems it misses and even more so with the 7.62 rifles available - at that range. 7.62 is still one shot if it hits unprotected areas.

 

The aforementioned issues occur no matter the mission. The rounds hit, visual conformation is achieved via them twitching and blood flying out of them. Died yesterday fighting two guys. One took 3 rounds to the head at about 200m out, and did not die. The second did go down but only after 5 rounds mid mass.

[calin_banc 19]

Like I've said:

 

The problem is with the server/mod/whatever.

 

Some mess around with the damage values or it can be packet loss, etc., so that's that. I've experience it myself while playing Wasteland a while a back. Check yourself with the editor. The 3d one allows you to easily customize each soldier with the gear you want. Without body armor, pretty much everything will kill in the chest area within close range. Even the 6.5mm from the USA faction will kill in 3 hits from that close (under 100 or 50m), even with body armor.

[jamie1992 17]

Like I've said:

 

Some mess around with the damage values or it can be packet loss, etc., so that's that. I've experience it myself while playing Wasteland a while a back. Check yourself with the editor. The 3d one allows you to easily customize each soldier with the gear you want. Without body armor, pretty much everything will kill in the chest area within close range. Even the 6.5mm from the USA faction will kill in 3 hits from that close (under 100 or 50m), even with body armor.

 

Issue can on occasion occur in singleplayer during even Vanilla missions. I think it runs a little deeper than just packet loss and custom scenario's causing the issue. (Although they certainly are culprits that could prolong and cause those issues to be...well worse) I know it would be difficult to truly actually simulate a combat environment and the ballistics of weaponry and the effects they have on an individual.

 

But still being able to stand and move after taking a .50 to the chest is...just straight up balls to the wall stupid.

 

I don't care if it hits you from 250m or a click away. When that .50 hits you WILL go down, even if it doesn't kill you. The sheer magnitude of force exerted upon the impact would be mind blowing. Not to even mention how much heat would be generated from the kinetic energy of that round meeting your plate.

[lev 21]

Can you post a video of your issues?  Load up virtual arsenal or something to demonstrate it.  Without more evidence it is hard to find out what the problem is.

 

In my personal tests in VA, even pistols kill reliably on unarmored targets (chest shot).  You also need to keep in mind that if you hit the guy in the foot, they will twitch the same as if you hit the guy in the chest.  This goes for ricochets as well.  This might be why it appears that they are able to take several shots instead of just one.