Player can be driver and gunner at the same time... only solution

[wingnutt270 10]

Ever since flashpoint, and carrying into every incarnation of ARMA including this one, AI has been and probably always will be completely inadequate at driving in combat situations. Having an AI driver in a tank battle in a city or the woods... just get out and blow the tank up yourself...

They do not exhibit any understanding of how to maneuver a vehicle efficiently.. especially in constricted areas and ESPECIALLY in combat situations. They will never be as good as the player at controlling a vehicle, period.

Yes, you can give commands. but their responses are jerky and delayed and I for one get very sick of "STOP, FORWARD, LEFT LEFT LEFT FORWARD.. etc etc"

Why not just make it so the player can directly control the vehicle from the gunner position..

BUT there must be player controlled AI occupying the driver's position in the vehicle..

AI driving has been a point of complaint since the very beginning and has never been close to fixed.

[13islucky 10]

Maybe not the only solution, but you do have a point. For something similar, turn on manual fire as a driver and designate targets. The gunner will aim at them and it's up to you whether you want to shoot or not.

[wingnutt270 10]

For something similar, turn on manual fire as a driver and designate targets. The gunner will aim at them and it's up to you whether you want to shoot or not.

Driver view from a tank is not conducive to this.

[laverniusregalis 10]

Driver view from a tank is not conducive to this.

So do it from third person.

[Lauxman 10]

So do it from third person.

Or...just allow the reverse, a "manual drive" the same as "manual fire."

[laverniusregalis 10]

Or...just allow the reverse, a "manual drive" the same as "manual fire."

I doubt even by 2035 that would either exist or be effective at all.

[Tacti-Cool 10]

What do you think this is?? Battlefield? where one man can crew a tank? its not that simple.

[laverniusregalis 10]

What do you think this is?? Battlefield? where one man can crew a tank? its not that simple.

Exactly. It's hard enough for someone to learn how to drive a tank, or use the gun. To do both would be insanity.

[-Gews- 1]

What do you think this is?? Battlefield? where one man can crew a tank? its not that simple.

The idea was not meant to allow one person to crew a tank; rather, it was to better simulate a tank's actual effectiveness by not handicapping the driver with clunky AI. Without an AI in the driver's seat, you would be unable to drive while manning the turret.

However I agree... the principle makes sense, but it would make tanks seem like in an arcade game. The negatives outweigh the positives.

[defk0n_NL 2]

What do you think this is?? Battlefield? where one man can crew a tank? its not that simple.

Here comes the battlefield references...

How else are you going to crew a tank?

The AI is really inept of doing anything but aimbotting and multiplayer is just a powerpoint slideshow with 50 players max on high end server gear.

You are right its not that simple. This game is not simple. "Don't try to have fun".

Not saying manual drive is the best way forward but it should be atleast considerd without people screaming BATTLEFIELD! or COD!

You could for instance have the AI be atleast be present in driver seat before you can manual drive.

So multiplayer does not end up as world of tanks.

[iceman77 18]

Actually way back when, at some point in time, it was possible to operate an mbt with one person. Hidden class >> M1AbramsAuto - The person could drive and operate the main turret. I dinked around with one aloooong time ago for arma1 even.

[wingnutt270 10]

it would make tanks seem like in an arcade game. The negatives outweigh the positives.

Being able to have the tank maneuver as though it were occupied by an actual competent driver would make it "like an arcade game"

Please give justification for this statement.

[quadrono 10]

Or....

play with real people, not AI. I really don't understand co-op. I would rather play with 2 teams of thirty and have an enemy who can actually think than one big team of 60 vs the patheric AI.

[metalcraze 290]

Being able to have the tank maneuver as though it were occupied by an actual competent driver would make it "like an arcade game"

Please give justification for this statement.

If AI is the issue then the solution is to improve AI drivers not cover the wish to have simplified gameplay with "hey AI is bad, let's make the game arcade". Do you know many "competent" tank drivers IRL who also operate the turret at the same time?

[wingnutt270 10]

If AI is the issue then the solution is to improve AI drivers not cover the wish to have simplified gameplay with "hey AI is bad, let's make the game arcade". Do you know many "competent" tank drivers IRL who also operate the turret at the same time?

It has not been fixed IN 12 YEARS Since flashpoint the AI driving has been a primary complaint and through all the updates and improvements, its COMBAT viability is still horrible at best.

How much longer would you like to wait?

---------- Post added at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:13 ----------

Or....

play with real people, not AI. I really don't understand co-op. I would rather play with 2 teams of thirty and have an enemy who can actually think than one big team of 60 vs the patheric AI.

Non-solution...

Go hop on a MP server and see how many players you can find who are willing to be your chauffeur.

Even assuming you can find somebody who is willing to sit in a seat and do nothing but drive wherever you tell them to... is that a solution? tanks only viable in Multiplayer? not effective in single-player? campaign?

[antoineflemming 14]

The solution is to actually spend time working on the AI, not all these work-arounds...

[laverniusregalis 10]

It has not been fixed IN 12 YEARS Since flashpoint the AI driving has been a primary complaint and through all the updates and improvements, its COMBAT viability is still horrible at best.

How much longer would you like to wait?

---------- Post added at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:13 ----------

Non-solution...

Go hop on a MP server and see how many players you can find who are willing to be your chauffeur.

Even assuming you can find somebody who is willing to sit in a seat and do nothing but drive wherever you tell them to... is that a solution? tanks only viable in Multiplayer? not effective in single-player? campaign?

Just stop arguing with OP and let him go play Battlefield. We might as well, he doesn't want to just improve the AI...

[wingnutt270 10]

Pitiful non-argument

Make a point, "go play battlefield" is a played out and pathetic response.

The AI driving has always been a major problem with this game, when somebody suggests a fix/solution for it, or at least a work around to enjoy the game despite it. Unless you have a constructive point or counter-point to add, why don't you just keep your mouth shut and let the mature people discuss the topic instead of trying to derail it.

---------- Post added at 15:50 ---------- Previous post was at 15:47 ----------

The solution is to actually spend time working on the AI, not all these work-arounds...

fair enough, for how many more years? another decade perhaps?.. what If I want to play before Im 40?

Seriously though... if you have it.. play Operation Flashpoint.. set up a tank battle where you are the gunner and have AI driving..

Do the same in ARMA 3

thats 12 years of evolution.. how much progress has it made?

[maturin 12]

There's nothing realistic, fun or deep about giving the AI driver movement commands and listening to your idiotic voice actor say LEFT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT FAST LEFT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT FAST LEFT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT FAST LEFT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT FAST LEFT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT FAST LEFT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT FAST LEFT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT FAST LEFT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT FAST for two hours on end.

If the AI drivers were good, giving drive orders and controlling the tank would be functionally the same. And either way you have three fingers on the WASD keys, so what the hell is the difference? Everyone who doesn't want manual driving as an option needs to look in the mirror and think long and hard about what realism really is.

Oh, and obviously there needs to be an AI in the driver's seat.

[wingnutt270 10]

To Clarify, for the "ARCADE MODE" "GO PLAY BATTLEFIELD" crowd, who lack reading comprehension of the original post.

Im not suggesting the tanks maneuverability be altered, enhanced or changed in any way.

When an AI under your command is in the tank, in the drivers position, you can opt to manually control the movement directly.. JUST LIKE if you were issuing commands to the driver as we have to now.. except less jerky, delayed and imprecise the only change would be that the tank would be able to maneuver in such a way as it does when somebody with a functioning brain stem is driving..

In real life, with an actual thinking driver.. if you command the driver to move the tank up next to a building.. how knows what you mean... he knows you don't mean ram the building, or drive past it then reverse into it, or do a circle then drive to it, he knows what you mean. The AI we have, has no conceptual understanding of what our commands mean... bless their hearts... they try.. but in a combat situation when your trying to maneuver and fire in a city, their abilities are not even remotely sufficient.

[iceman77 18]

It's funny all of this arguing. You guys must have never heard of the vanilla hidden M1AbramsAuto in OFP... :popcornsmilie: In any case, wtf does it hurt? I can for example play arma any way I wish and I certainly don't have any fear or problems with how others wish to play it. That's what is great about the series... I can do whatever the fuck i wish at any given time given the proper motivation to sculpt and mold a scenario how I want. If i want to make an arcade style game then it's okay. If i wanted to include a 1 man operational tank, it should be okay. Because if that's how i like to play, then that's that. No one else should give a fuck. It's not as if giving us the ability to designate a 1 person vehicle is going to ruin the game. After all.. OFP survived and it had an M1AbramsAuto.

What they need is a module. You sync it to the vehicle and there you go... it's a one man operational vehicle. Idk about how multi turret vehicles would work, but w/e.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Iceman77

[Tacti-Cool 10]

How else are you going to crew a tank?

Here's a crazy thought that appears no one else seems to consider..... WITH PEOPLE. Find a multiplayer game with a pal, one of you drives, the other shoots. Jeez. You'd think i need a degree for this kind of thinking. There's more to arma than just singleplayer people.

[wingnutt270 10]

Here's a crazy thought that appears no one else seems to consider..... WITH PEOPLE. Find a multiplayer game with a pal, one of you drives, the other shoots. Jeez. You'd think i need a degree for this kind of thinking. There's more to arma than just singleplayer people.

Actually it is a "crazy thought" to think your going to hop on a server and get somebody to drive you around all day while you shoot things...

Besides, yes there is more to it than single player... but we are discussing a single player aspect/feature.. You'd think I need a degree for this kind of thinking.

[Tacti-Cool 10]

Actually it is a "crazy thought" to think your going to hop on a server and get somebody to drive you around all day while you shoot things...

http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?168-ARMA-3-SQUADS-AND-FANPAGES

Take your pick. Any one of these will happily drive you around while you shoot things

[Bouben 3]

All the wanna-be-realism-all-the-way guys who rather prefer bugged and boring gameplay instead of some functional compromises are simply ill.

In other words:

- don't forget to turn off your crosshair while having no muscle reference about your arms position - SO REAL!

- don't forget to turn off your out-of-LOS indicators and third-person view while having no periphery vision at all - SO REAL!

- don't forget to turn of your "target" and "engage" indicators while having AI incapable of explaining to you and showing you with their forefinger where exactly the enemy is - SO REAL!

- don't forget to prevent functional cover system from happening again while having few robotic non-flexible-enough stances - SO REAL!

Maturin and OP hit the nail on the head.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Bouben