A2 AI compared to A3 AI (infantry)

[tmp95 16]

I'm just curious to others take- I played A2 for a long time. Enjoyed it (mostly). Have bought A3 and have not for a variety of life-reasons been able to play (get into) A3 as much. So I do not have a lot of man hours within the game. However, while I like the feel and look thus far of A3.....I'm starting to think the AI is much worse. Blufor AI seems much dumber, less effective.....and AI in general (both Blufor and Opfor) seems "buggy" more so than I remember in A2.

Am I off here? What are others opinions that have more play time. Thanks.

[instagoat 133]

It depends. Mostly, they are better, but because of improvements, other negative areas are also magnified as side effects. In general, they are better than Arma 2 AI, but still in need of polish and finishing.

For example, a polygonal navigation system instead of a node based system to enable them to effectively fight indoors would be great.

[mistyronin 1181]

IMO in A3, Ai units tend to make more intelligent use of covers in the field, and act more as a unit ( one making fire while others advance ).

Said that, and as Instagoat has said, Ai seem to get lost indoors and just standing still in the middle of the room or in the few nodes.

[iceman77 18]

vanilla Arma 2 ai are inferior to vanilla a3 ai.

[Tacti-Cool 10]

they are the T-10,000,000,000 Terminators, they have come to kill John Connor.

[enex 11]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?159711-Development-Branch-Captain-s-AI-Log

changelog of AI by Bohemia guys (shoutout to RoyaltyinExile)

[ProfTournesol 956]

I'd say they are better, i disagree with the Terminator thingy (not anymore anyway).

[maffa 29]

can anyone make friendly AI climb stairs -i mean the ones required to take the action menu?

There are those convenient towers near the solar plants that just ask for a sniper to climb them and i would like to order mine to get up there but to date i couldnt manage yet. In the interaction menu there's open/close doors/hatches, check inventory/rearm heal and such but no climb staris, nor i can order them to get upstairs with the "move to" command

[-Coulum- 35]

Vanilla to Vanilla Arma 3 wins hands down. A summary of the improvements

• Spotting ranges are more realistic
  
• Turn speed is MUCH better and CQB is actually interesting
  
• Ai's ability to effectively shoot through tons of foiliage at you is vastly improved - to the point where sometimes They actually aren't shooting through concealment enough - but I believe this is still being worked on.
  
• Killing an Ai no longer reveals your position to the rest of the squad immediately - again, needs refinement and isn't "realistic" but still far better than arma 2's system
  

There's more but those are the biggest ones that I have really noticed. Actual "smarts" of Ai hasn't been changed much if at all but this is okay - one step at a time.

they are the T-10,000,000,000 Terminators, they have come to kill John Connor.

Meh I disagree. The shooting ability of the ai is pretty much on par with a human player's firing range accuracy- the problem is players often aren't able to always attain firing range accuracy in combat, especially when under poor conditions (under fire, shooting through concealment at partially concealed targets etc). This isn't how the ai are. They always shoot with the same "firing range accuracy", when their shooting ability should vary depending on whats happening around them. Their accuracy isn't unbelievable, its just how often they are able to attain it that is the problem. So not terminators, but rather humans doped up to not feel pain, fear, stress or panic.

Ai can also be extremely pathetic at shooting, if the mission maker wants it.

[Smurf 12]

can anyone make friendly AI climb stairs -i mean the ones required to take the action menu?

There are those convenient towers near the solar plants that just ask for a sniper to climb them and i would like to order mine to get up there but to date i couldnt manage yet. In the interaction menu there's open/close doors/hatches, check inventory/rearm heal and such but no climb staris, nor i can order them to get upstairs with the "move to" command

You have to command them to ocupy a position within the structure\building (if it exist), then they will use the stairs on their own.

Ai is better but they only shoot to kill and are VERY good at it, even when taking hits.

[maffa 29]

You have to command them to ocupy a position within the structure\building (if it exist), then they will use the stairs on their own.

Ai is better but they only shoot to kill and are VERY good at it, even when taking hits.

No position on top of those lovely towers, unfortunately. I dont know if it's working as intended or the umpteenth missing feature.

[calin_banc 19]

Meh I disagree. The shooting ability of the ai is pretty much on par with a human player's firing range accuracy- the problem is players often aren't able to always attain firing range accuracy in combat, especially when under poor conditions (under fire, shooting through concealment at partially concealed targets etc). This isn't how the ai are. They always shoot with the same "firing range accuracy", when their shooting ability should vary depending on whats happening around them. Their accuracy isn't unbelievable, its just how often they are able to attain it that is the problem. So not terminators, but rather humans doped up to not feel pain, fear, stress or panic.

Ai can also be extremely pathetic at shooting, if the mission maker wants it.

Well, then they are not humans, ergo machines, Terminators, which takes all the immersion away. Playing the showcases with the infantry advancing through the valley or assaulting the small base in the combined arms shows just that, how "uncool" they are - seeing you through concealment (even smoke lol), acquiring and engaging target extremely fast.

Now other games can overcome some of this by using autohealing, but that's not the case here. All you can do, is make a "smarter" AI, with more human like and less machine like, reactions to stimuli. Or just script everything as much as possible, throw in some invincible characters and that's it. EW was quite nice in ArmA 2.

[-Coulum- 35]

Well, then they are not humans, ergo machines, Terminators, which takes all the immersion away. Playing the showcases with the infantry advancing through the valley or assaulting the small base in the combined arms shows just that, how "uncool" they are - seeing you through concealment (even smoke lol), acquiring and engaging target extremely fast.

Now other games can overcome some of this by using autohealing, but that's not the case here. All you can do, is make a "smarter" AI, with more human like and less machine like, reactions to stimuli. Or just script everything as much as possible, throw in some invincible characters and that's it. EW was quite nice in ArmA 2.

Well yeah I guess they are a bit terminator like. What I was trying to say was that they don't cheat per say. Regarding accuracy, the accuracy they are able to achive is really not that horrible, infact humans can do better, The problem is rather their ability to attain it isn't dependant on what going on like a human's is. They are not aimbots, they are just bots. I agree though the immersion breaks because of this - but its not as simple as "the ai are too good at shooting"

Similarly with spotting, the ai doesn't cheat, its just they are extremely good at it. Its like they have thermals on at all times. They can't see through bushes but they can easily pick you out despite camoflauge. They don't have xray vision but it isn't human vision either. I think this is actually a bigger problem than the accuracy.

Any how, think that BIS are working toward fixing all this, they ahve mmade steps, its just going to take a while.

[maffa 29]

i wonder if their aiming ability is modified by the sights they use. I have been headshotted several times by CQB sighted AIs from 500+ m

Edited November 7, 2013 by Maffa

[Smurf 12]

i wonder if their aiming ability is modifyed by the sights they use. I have been headshotted several times by CQB sighted AIs from 500+ m

Both their accuracy and spotting abilities depends on sights.

Some of the problems that make them look like terminators is their quick way to see AND identify an enemy right after putting some lead into the target. Once you are targeted you are very likely to get killed because they don't flinch and their aim only get better after the first shot. Also, there seems to have somekind of bug where their first shot on a new magazine is VERY good.

Sure it will be ironed out sooner or later.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Smurf

[-Coulum- 35]

Both their accuracy and spotting abilities depends on sights.

Really? I haven't really been able to find a difference for accuracy. For spotting yes definitely.

I have been headshotted several times by CQB sighted AIs from 500+ m

Mmm yeah, try reproducing that. You'll find that its hard to get an ai rifle man to even engage at that distance. I've only managed to get them to fire at 500+ when they have magnification. And even then I usually take 3 or 4 hits before I die, and those hits come over a timespan of around 10 - 15 seconds. So, no offense meant, but I am hesitant to believe that you get shot at 500m+ even semi regularly by CQB sighted Ai.

That being said, ai with ironsight alone should be less accurate. More importantly when engaging long range targets above 300m they should not be trying to hit but just trying to get rounds down range at the players. Cause that's all I am doing when I have ironsights and ranges are anywhere above 300.

[Tacti-Cool 10]

Ive been accurately engaged at 700m. So id say its pretty easy to reproduce.

[maturin 12]

You can't reproduce it, it just happens on occasions.

When the AI is firing hundreds of bullets at you, and they are all passing withing a meter or so, headshots are bound to happen.

It's all just probability, imperfectly balanced.

AI accuracy is at very good level... if only it would degrade (more) based on stance, aiming time, injury and optics. Right now, the AI is better at hitting with the first shot than the tenth, standing than prone. Completely goddamn backwards.

how "uncool" they are - seeing you through concealment (even smoke lol),

If I was a mod, I would just start banning people who say this.

[calin_banc 19]

Care to explain maturin, how they can see through a "white screen of smoke" or how can track any of my movements through high grass ori bushes? Or they should easily use their other Terminator powers besides immunity to suppression, pain, fatigue, wounds, etc. ? Or it goes to the "because I say so" section or the "the AI is far to complex, stuff like this is bound to happen". :)

Edited November 7, 2013 by calin_banc

[maturin 12]

Yeah, I can explain: they don't.

I put my full faith in smoke. It's better than a brick wall, although sometimes the AI will fire through it at random, hoping to hit something (realistic behavior that newbs will forever wail about as cheating). There were some glitches with it relating to vehicles in A2, but that could have had to do with thermal sights, I forget.

They don't track you through bushes but duh, bushes are small and they will spot your through the gaps as you move.

Grass still isn't really fixed. Don't regard it as cover.

The AI is affected by wounds and fatigue. Just because you personally think the effect is too small doesn't change the facts. And your character is immune to pain and suppression too, isn't it.

All this stuff is changing and modding anyways. The AI is currently wretchedly balanced (and BIS is working on this specifically, last we heard), but it's not broken and it doesn't cheat.

[calin_banc 19]

Some good points, however;

- they DO engage precisely through smoke and whoever tells me that I'm a noob I could called them a fanboy as well for disregarding the matter. The smoke builds up, I soon as I was passing behind: pew-pew dead. Stayed in my place: not a single shot fired. Took some shots at the ai then ducked and come back up again a little bit further away just with my eyes above the grass line: pew-pew dead on site! Advance slowly thorough a large bush: pew-pew dead. Also, to just lay on their bally without really communicating with each other, without covering each other and MOVE from there to a better cover is... dumb.

- well, I do think they should hit the ground as soon as they see a guy with a LMG firing their way, not only that, but seek cover, throw nades faster, smoke, something more human like than just that... machine like reaction to stimuli. More like this -

///

. I actually shot one and advance at him, caught him healing, moving in his sight without a reaction, without immediately taking his side arm and firing at me. One small shot to the leg and... he's dead.

And with this we move to the "anatomy"/health system/ballistics which for a realistic game is just bad! Metro 2033 had a nice armor system in which bullets were stopped by different pieces of armor, the same thing that should be in here! Getting shot from hundreds of meters away should not be a problem if the bullet hits the body armor! Change that armor with a different one and move on!

Also, some basic anatomy should be in the game, like bleeding out, shock, not being able to use your arm or leg depending where you are shot and so on. The AI should be affected by THAT! My avatar gets a blurry vision for some reason when shot, so yeah, I'm just "human"! Not only is harder to see clearly in the game world, but that puts additional strain on my eyes as I look at the screen and they force themselves to clarify the image. :)

Also, last time I've checked suppressor weren't working that well.

Does BI works to improve this? Perhaps, it really should 'cause they saw a lot of good work from moders over the years.

Edited November 7, 2013 by calin_banc

[maturin 12]

I never get shot through smoke, although I don't expect it to hide me until it builds up, or against thermal-equipped vehicles. I'll believe otherwise when it happens, or when I see evidence. I have no patience or respect for forum claims, because they don't help you, me or the game. If people would make a ticket instead of whining, the problem could get fixed.

As for complaining that the AI shot clearly visible parts of your body as you emerged from soft concealment... well... so?

I agree that the wounding system if crap, and can't wait for the mods to fix it. Which they will, because body armor and location damage is already in the game, just not fully implemented. Leg hits can prevent you from running, etc.

[metalcraze 290]

Sadly A3 AI is only marginally better than A2

The only change seems to be more liberal turn speed limits and that's a parameter tweak at best.

Otherwise they still can't use buildings, bridges still send them into an uncontrollable panic, they still take a huge flanking maneuver to get into a vehicle even if it's the empty desert with no objects to block their path, they still can't drive in convoys or even enter turns right, they still can't use smoke grenades, they still can't rearm so it's much easier to shoot now useless AI that ran out of ammo than force him to open his inventory, MGs still can't hit anything firing high into the sky.

So there is no surprise they can't use new features either. Telling them to put on suppressors? Turn flashlights on/off? Forget about that.

Edited November 7, 2013 by metalcraze

[maturin 12]

Translation: The only thing they're better at is fighting.

They're faster and deadlier. We barely even need LOS mods for effective CQB anymore.

[calin_banc 19]

As for complaining that the AI shot clearly visible parts of your body as you emerged from soft concealment... well... so?

No! They were engaging the rest of my team while I was moving SLOWLY at the "cover" of concealment on their flank. It was either someone from far of or another one, relative close by. It wasn't like "oh, ups, I just pop up in front of you" kind of situation.

Anyway, not it seems to be more playable since last time I've done some of the showcases, my squad mates managing to survive longer, the enemy's dead eye shots apparently went down a notch, which all in all, is good. However, I don't expect for moders to "fix" this, it's not their job, it's BI. I don't mind it takes some more time, but at least they should do it.

We barely even need LOS mods for effective CQB anymore.

Yeah, they are decent in CQC, medium to long distances needs a tweak.