The jip argument revisted

[HellToupee 0]

Lets assume it was possible and easy for bis(makers of ofp) to implement, i had argument with lt dammge(gp server admin) in game i was for he was against, he said ppl would be comin and goin every 5secs(if JIP was implemented) that it would be cs that ofp as it is now would be destroyed. I reckon if we had the option that wouldnt happen  coops dont need it but it would be great for ctf(capture the flag) c&h(capture and hold) rts2(real time strat), i wanna see your opions I hope it provides me with more amuntion for my next debate with him (hopefully) or be like that bomb that went off in my face.

JIP= join in progress there where much debates back in the days about it.

edit: gave abrev words meanings. This isnt about addin it its about if it should be added assumin bis were gona. Im for.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

there would be a slight chance of 1 vs 9'000 that I would actually understand your post in case you would get rid of all those abreviations.

[Jester983 0]

IMO it would be okay for like Deathmatch and TDM and CTF. But as for Co Op no. Not for Co Op. Why you might ask? Well if you had that in OFP for Co Op it would ruin the mission. You would have guys coming and going. Now lets say you were very close to finishing this mission, then you get some guy that comes in and messes it all up. Goes Rambo style when its supposed to be a black op mission.

Other than that i think it would be okay. Just not for Co op. And maybe King of the Hill.

[Rob 1]

Same here... sure coop sound cool but your going to always have the occansional idiot coming in and either blowing your cover, leaving when you need him because everyone else is dead, or completely ruining the whole mission in 1.

The one thing i dont like about OFP is the movement. If any of you guys have played the new game Army Operations, then i think it would be so much more fun to use. Half the time ofp movements are either too slow or just feel too wierd. I guess its because we're used to playing games where people run smoothly all the time, but it can be so much more useful to use.

[Jester983 0]

How so? Do you mean like how they reload?

[Rob 1]

no the way they walk and things. I just think the way the movement feels is too wierd. i would like a game to be more steady on the feet and throwing their gun side to side as they run.

Let me try and explain it better. In CS when you run around the gun is constantly in one place never moving... i admit this is pretty stupid but the movement controls are so easy to use and i think the ofp controls are too laggy feeling.

I know what i mean

[HellToupee 0]

i luv ofps movement, it finally gets away from the floating gun idea that every other fps has where u cant even see your feet i know i can, ever tried to sprint holdin a stick stead u cant running while holdin hands still u cant u gota move em, ppl also dont turn aroun in an instant cant go from running to reverse in an instant i lke ofps movement.

[HellToupee 0]

JIP is only realy for the ctf c&h and other human team vs human team fights coop is where you need lots organisation, but u dont need jip for coop u usally have small numbers of players around 1 squad big and players leavin making teams unbalanced isnt a problem. Like when the argument first started i was waitin 15min to go, the teams were 8 east vs 3 west because after about 5min of the game startin alot of ppl just left the game i got there 2 min after game started. I want JIP because i enjoy the challange of fighting unpredictable human controled players, against ai im scoring up to 30kills in mp against humans i get around 8kills 8 deaths.

[ralphwiggum 6]

jip, if implemented, should be server-side option.

then ppl will whine why so many servers disable it

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 27 2002,18:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">jip, if implemented, should be server-side option.

then ppl will whine why so many servers disable it <span id='postcolor'>

or the ppl will whine why no one joins there non jip server, it should be a server and map side option, but ofps mp at the moment ofpr has around 20 servers with about 5 of them populated and very few with more than 10ppl, games like rtcw have 2000servers with a server like happy penguin 64ppl that constantly has more ppl than the total mp ofpers.

[Aculaud 0]

This is exactly why they (BIS) should have set up a dedicated server. I heard somewhere, and i totally believe, that they had the golden opportunity to rule multi-player gaming, and all they had to do was share their bandwidth with all of us.

If they had one, they could set aside certain lobbys for the join in progress function, and everyone could choose freely if they wanted "Typical FPS" style play, or how OFP was meant to be played.

Personally, i think its a stupid idea. People who think it would be good have been jaded by typical gaming to the point of total impatiance. I'll tell you where this would go; We get JIP, and the next thing you know, people are coming out with trainers of all sorts. The more typical we make this game, the more typical its going to get, cheaters, speed trainers, all sorts of hacking, you name it.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Although it can be a pain to wait for 30 minutes for a game to wrap up, in a wierd way, I see the good in not having JIP. If we did have it, OFP would be deluged with idiots without the patience to master the game, who just wanted a quick fix, whether that quick fix is blowing up the teams spawn or TKing. JIP might make OFP's multiplayer accessible to more gamers, but they are the kind of gamers that I would rather avoid.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Aug. 27 2002,08:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Although it can be a pain to wait for 30 minutes for a game to wrap up, in a wierd way, I see the good in not having JIP. If we did have it, OFP would be deluged with idiots without the patience to master the game, who just wanted a quick fix, whether that quick fix is blowing up the teams spawn or TKing. JIP might make OFP's multiplayer accessible to more gamers, but they are the kind of gamers that I would rather avoid.<span id='postcolor'>

i second that.

i was playing with suicide squad last night, and some kid who did not read the briefing and did not listen order screwed up the whole coop mission.

when i play coop, i want some teamwork(although hard ot find in public servers) or at least team players talk about what to do. there are already enough kids out there who starts firing at the first moment of noticing enemy. result? screw the whole mission.

[HellToupee 0]

JIP wouldnt turn ofp into cs i cant see how all the ppl that want to cheat would play ofp bf1942 would be mnore appealing, its just stupid to speculate that ofp would be over run with cheaters and 12 year olds its not a valid argument wheres the proof. Proof is less ppl play ofpr mp at one time than ppl one rtcw server like happy penguine, thats not good, i want ppl to play not empty servers hell i would rather play with idots than no one.

[HellToupee 0]

Also CS its the most popular mp game around, you mite say ofps better with its small community of only mature players(rather up ones self i would say) but if ofp isnt sucessful enough Y bother continuing support for it, probly be better off with the sucess of cs.

On the note of JIP and this so called flood of lamers kids cheats etc, why dont i see them in rtcw, il2 hell i saw cheats in df2 once in a blue moon but it was enjoyable even fighting them, 1000s of ppl play df2 shit sp but mp rocked thats what i expected when i bought ofp if i had know other wise before i had tried the game i might not have bought it.

[ralphwiggum 6]

if 1 mil copies were sold(i doubt if that is that much), that means that there are still a lot that doesn't play within that 1 mil number.

and i bet a good number of them are those kiddies. ofcourse they won't shell $70 bucks for OFP and OFPR but for those who already have OFP, they will spend $30 more(cheaper than new games) and if JIP is available, they will just come and kill and go around nuts.

not to mention all the idiots that come around. it seems like more mature the person is, more patience he/she has, and less mature a person is, less patients they have.

so if JIP is implemented, those impatient ones will undoubtly start kicking in the doors and say things like. 'Fuck! this is hard' or 'you f!@#ing camper'. and we'll see more of that.

now you do make a valid argumnt about cost of OFP+OFPR being so high for kiddies to afford. but I doubt if that will deter them much. there will be more ppl wanting OFP for less price(or none) and that will result in proliferation of cheats and cracks. that i'm very worried about. although FADE kicks in nicely, in MP, they only give out messages and that's it. so those kiddies will just play, and piss us mature players up.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Aug. 26 2002,23:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">its just stupid to speculate that ofp would be over run with cheaters and 12 year olds its not a valid argument wheres the proof.<span id='postcolor'>

Quake, quake 2, quake 3, duke nukem 3d, half life, team fortress classic, delta force landwarrior, counterstrike, etc.

Take your pick. The teeniboppers have found their marry way to every FPS shooter out there thats prommised them ease of play as far as joining and in-game abilities. We start making OFP easier to play, and i wouldnt be suprised in the slightest if they started walking our way.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Aug. 27 2002,09:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also CS its the most popular mp game around, you mite say ofps better with its small community of only mature players(rather up ones self i would say) but if ofp isnt sucessful enough Y bother continuing support for it, probly be better off with the sucess of cs.<span id='postcolor'>

good point. so it is trade-off btw opening more doors for kiddies for sale and limiting for quality.

while i was playing Global Ops demo, I saw another CS-ish problem. ppl constantly abusing radio command to call medics and voting to kick another team's member and cursing at each other.

if those kids come to OFP, I'd be less happy for sure. and not to mention this forum getting flooded with those assholes saying "Why is this game so unrealistic" how come one shot kills you?" or "why can't you shoot while running? I can do that!" or "I was former SEAL"....

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 27 2002,00:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">while i was playing Global Ops demo, I saw another CS-ish problem. ppl constantly abusing radio command to call medics and voting to kick another team's member and cursing at each other.<span id='postcolor'>

The typical gamer in a nutshell. Thats one breed of gamer i'd never want to see around here.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 27 2002,21:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and if JIP is available, they will just come and kill and go around nuts.

so if JIP is implemented, those impatient ones will undoubtly start kicking in the doors and say things like. 'Fuck! this is hard' or 'you f!@#ing camper'. and we'll see more of that.<span id='postcolor'>

well if there sayin its hard and stuff instead of stayin with the game they will leave, ppl have the patience but why should we wait, waitin sucks sum of us dont have the time, What proof is there that JIP will turn ofp into a kiddie cheater feast, and how many of those new ppl that will actually play the game be in the unwanted catgeroy? very few, i luv ofp mp but alot of the time it suxs games can be really boring and only once a week my local server breaks 15 ppl. Coops r fun for a while but ive got sp if i want to play ai, i want to play ppl and at the moment one day a week of ofp mp is all i get.

[nordin dk 0]

Here's an idea.

Go buy a "book", and while you wait for a game to start, "read" the "book".

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ Aug. 27 2002,21:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 27 2002,00:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">while i was playing Global Ops demo, I saw another CS-ish problem. ppl constantly abusing radio command to call medics and voting to kick another team's member and cursing at each other.<span id='postcolor'>

The typical gamer in a nutshell. Thats one breed of gamer i'd never want to see around here.<span id='postcolor'>

global ops is also a simalr game to cs gameplay and nothing like ofp, and also thats a free demo "free". Look at cs its an arcade dm game the ppl that play that r different to ofpers, pretty much every mp game ive played my life has had jip and i have yet to have a problem with cheaters. All i can say is if ppl arnt cheatin and stuff now they never will be.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On the note of JIP and this so called flood of lamers kids cheats etc, why dont i see them in rtcw, il2 hell i saw cheats in df2 once in a blue moon but it was enjoyable even fighting them, 1000s of ppl play df2 shit sp but mp rocked thats what i expected when i bought ofp if i had know other wise before i had tried the game i might not have bought it.<span id='postcolor'>

the problem is that these kiddies tend to migrate around and leave no remorse. RTCW has been around long enough to attract those kids and then leave. although CS somehow still has them. and for IL2, flight sims are for mature ppl thesedays. so you automatically have mature ppl playing only. unfortunately, OFP is FPS and that still gives potential for kiddies to stick their nose in. i remember up until at least march, kiddies were complaining on this forum about how 'unrealistic' OFP is.

many ppl left DF2 and other DF series after cheats. some ppl just can't accept them. even for entertainment, there are different degrees.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">its just stupid to speculate that ofp would be over run with cheaters and 12 year olds its not a valid argument wheres the proof.<span id='postcolor'>

it's not speculation. what does ofp lack from other FPS MP? JIP. right..OFP distinguishes itself from other FPS MP with lack of JIP. as i said earlier, those who have little patients tend to be those who curse and cheat. if it is ieasier for them to comein, they will come.

[HellToupee 0]

One thing lets assume ofp did get JIP, theres one thing you could do is, have a passworded server for all you super mature ppl who fear any game with JIP because it has jip which means only cheaters and kids play it.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Aug. 27 2002,00:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well if there sayin its hard and stuff instead of stayin with the game they will leave, ppl have the patience but why should we wait, waitin sucks sum of us dont have the time, What proof is there that JIP will turn ofp into a kiddie cheater feast, and how many of those new ppl that will actually play the game be in the unwanted catgeroy? very few, i luv ofp mp but alot of the time it suxs games can be really boring and only once a week my local server breaks 15 ppl. Coops r fun for a while but ive got sp if i want to play ai, i want to play ppl and at the moment one day a week of ofp mp is all i get.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok, you seem like an avid multi-player gamer, so let me ask you something. How often do you see people in public servers yelling "GO!!! GO!!! GO!!! GO!!! GO!!! GO!!! GO!!! GO!!! GO!!!", etc.? These are the people we dont want here. The kind of people who wouldnt know what a team was if the whole thing bit them on the ass. The kind of people who just want the preverbial quick fix. the kind of people who just go grab an attack chopper without even bothering with a gunner, cause they think they should be doing it themselves.