The jip argument revisted

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Aug. 28 2002,15:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dude, you dont get it. JIP is not the reason Warcraft, RTCW, MOHAA, and all the others have done so well. They do well because their netcode is well done, the formula is familiar and comfortable for gamers, and of course, they have been hyped waaaaaayyyyyy out of proportion. Rogue Spear didnt have JIP, neither does Ghost Recon, they do all right.<span id='postcolor'>

would you wait 30mins to play a game of rtcw i wouldnt, i just jump on for a few quick games and only get serious with my clan matches, its net code is good but pings over 200 and your wasting your time in ofp you can play with a 300ping and its like 90ping on 1.46 its even more 56k friendly. Ghost recon is dead, on gp its forum is 120posts and hasnt had posts for months theres no local servers and there never was, ofp has 1 local server that caters for australia as well. But most of the time its empty.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Sucks for you I guess. Hope you enjoy BF1942 for the 5 minutes before its overrun by idiots. Peace

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Aug. 28 2002,17:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sucks for you I guess. Hope you enjoy BF1942 for the 5 minutes before its overrun by idiots. Peace<span id='postcolor'>

i hate bf1942 its soo dumbed down a monkey could play it, idots dont play it cause of jip they play it cause its like cs so bloody easy, If ofp had JIP i doubt it would be called bf1942 ofp would still be hard, still need abilty just to find out where u are, and still have the same game play with more ppl to play and reassigns only when changing map thats my dream. Rouge spear, ghost recon etc r all dead mp games, i hated havin to reload the same map over and over after a 1min game.

Swat 3 was another game i luved i looked foward to its mp, well it sucked.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">still have the same game play with more ppl to play and reassigns only when changing map thats my dream<span id='postcolor'>

and with more ppl comes more kiddies. you need to understand that as population increases, there will be more of those kiddies. yet you seems to be in denial about that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rouge spear, ghost recon etc r all dead mp games, i hated havin to reload the same map over and over after a 1min game<span id='postcolor'>

they are dead cause it's been many years since they came out. when they came out, it was phenonmenol. and ghost recon is dead cause it's same product as RS, and nothing new about it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">join in progrees would make ofp more popular and more incentive for more addons and updates. You might say ild rather play with 10 mates than 30 strangers but from BIS's view its the other waya round they want to sell the game.<span id='postcolor'>

more popular and more problematic. BIS will have hard time keeping up with more demands. just look at some dumb posts by a guy named flyboyXXXX(forgot the number). this guys claims that barrret can stop a tank( ) and he learned to reload while running( ).

if BIS wanted to sell OFP more, i'm sure they would have placed JIP long time ago.(or comeout with a patch already).

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,19:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">still have the same game play with more ppl to play and reassigns only when changing map thats my dream<span id='postcolor'>

and with more ppl comes more kiddies. you need to understand that as population increases, there will be more of those kiddies. yet you seems to be in denial about that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rouge spear, ghost recon etc r all dead mp games, i hated havin to reload the same map over and over after a 1min game<span id='postcolor'>

they are dead cause it's been many years since they came out. when they came out, it was phenonmenol. and ghost recon is dead cause it's same product as RS, and nothing new about it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">join in progrees would make ofp more popular and more incentive for more addons and updates. You might say ild rather play with 10 mates than 30 strangers but from BIS's view its the other waya round they want to sell the game.<span id='postcolor'>

more popular and more problematic. BIS will have hard time keeping up with more demands. just look at some dumb posts by a guy named flyboyXXXX(forgot the number). this guys claims that barrret can stop a tank( ) and he learned to reload while running( ).

if BIS wanted to sell OFP more, i'm sure they would have placed JIP long time ago.(or comeout with a patch already).<span id='postcolor'>

yea there will be kiddies but its the ratio of new players to kiddies, lets say 100ppl play ofp mp as it is now i would say sum of em r ither tkers(ive met a few, they use cars mostly) kiddies etc, now if we got 100more ppl with JIP come play ofp you make it sound like 50-80 of them will be kiddies, i doubt even 10 of em would be the undesirable type, and theres ways to avoid them admins can ban simple changin names wont work and every game seems to have an admin, you can have a passworded server its not like your not used to small amounts of ppl to play and finally the benfits no wait no stupid wait that takes 30-40min and no short games like cdtfs that always end 0-0.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,19:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if BIS wanted to sell OFP more, i'm sure they would have placed JIP long time ago.(or comeout with a patch already).<span id='postcolor'>

and thats got me crackin up, there a commerical company not a charity, they make a game to sell not plz us, plzin us sells the game, JIP sells the game so i expect sum point in time we will get it, and they have never said it is impossible.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yea there will be kiddies but its the ratio of new players to kiddies, lets say 100ppl play ofp mp as it is now i would say sum of em r ither tkers(ive met a few, they use cars mostly) kiddies etc, now if we got 100more ppl with JIP come play ofp you make it sound like 50-80 of them will be kiddies, i doubt even 10 of em would be the undesirable type, and theres ways to avoid them admins can ban simple changin names wont work and every game seems to have an admin, you can have a passworded server its not like your not used to small amounts of ppl to play and finally the benfits no wait no stupid wait that takes 30-40min and no short games like cdtfs that always end 0-0.

<span id='postcolor'>

i hope i didn't imply that there will be explosion of kiddies. but let's say we have 0.1% kiddies as of right now. then I think JIP will increase that percentage.

banning is not the best solution. for kiddies who goto different servers, to avoid those kiddies, share of ban list needs to be done. however, it's hard to do so.

also, password protected server is not a good option either. how can you assure the admin that you are a serious player?

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Aug. 28 2002,07:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,193)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if BIS wanted to sell OFP more, i'm sure they would have placed JIP long time ago.(or comeout with a patch already).<span id='postcolor'>

and thats got me crackin up, there a commerical company not a charity, they make a game to sell not plz us, plzin us sells the game, JIP sells the game so i expect sum point in time we will get it, and they have never said it is impossible.<span id='postcolor'>

if that was possible and easy to do, they would have done it. in some post some moths ago about JIP discussion, SUMA said current engine doesn't supprt JIP.

so should we expect JIP, it would be after a major overhaul in MP code.

yes, BIS make games to sell. and why do you think they excluded JIP? they are looking at other market(mature ppl), not kiddie's market.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,19:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yea there will be kiddies but its the ratio of new players to kiddies, lets say 100ppl play ofp mp as it is now i would say sum of em r ither tkers(ive met a few, they use cars mostly) kiddies etc, now if we got 100more ppl with JIP come play ofp you make it sound like 50-80 of them will be kiddies, i doubt even 10 of em would be the undesirable type, and theres ways to avoid them admins can ban simple changin names wont work and every game seems to have an admin, you can have a passworded server its not like your not used to small amounts of ppl to play and finally the benfits no wait no stupid wait that takes 30-40min and no short games like cdtfs that always end 0-0.

<span id='postcolor'>

i hope i didn't imply that there will be explosion of kiddies. but let's say we have 0.1% kiddies as of right now. then I think JIP will increase that percentage.

banning is not the best solution. for kiddies who goto different servers, to avoid those kiddies, share of ban list needs to be done. however, it's hard to do so.

also, password protected server is not a good option either. how can you assure the admin that you are a serious player?<span id='postcolor'>

a banning list isnt hard its just a list, its up to the admins to use it, its not like it needs to be internation because i doubt kiddies would have a big fat pipe so they can play overseas, its local communities where it happens its just that ofp is too small for them to be worth while, my rtcw match this friday is gona be shoutcasted and everything, as a community were all focused on making the game more popular helping other clans get started we dont go on servers and own noobs we help em become good players, for ofp my local comminity dosnt do much its very small only see the same names over and over not much of a future to look foward to.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,19:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">so should we expect JIP, it would be after a major overhaul in MP code.<span id='postcolor'>

we got the overhaul.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,08:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BIS make games to sell. and why do you think they excluded JIP? they are looking at other market(mature ppl), not kiddie's market.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think supporting JIP as a server side option will entice that many more hoodlums to play OFP.

Delta Force, for example, was ruined by cheats, trainers and SAW bunnies , i.e., overly easy to use weapons models.

I appreciated JIP, as it gave me the maximum amount of playing time. Again, server hosts should be able to choose otherwise.

[HellToupee 0]

thats what ive been sayin JIP wont bring all the 10 year olds to ofp because its not that sort of game, ofp players more like il2 players, df2 was overly easy was fun and stuff but was the game where u run around with 60ppl with a saw(i used it) with 100% accuracy and just shot ppl in dm tdm, but attack and defend was my fav.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Aug. 28 2002,07:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,19:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">so should we expect JIP, it would be after a major overhaul in MP code.<span id='postcolor'>

we got the overhaul.<span id='postcolor'>

do you know what kind of overhaul that is?

it's implemeting a SOCKET based netcode. 1.46 used MS's directplay, and what 1.60beta and OFPR did was it used equivalent of that, except BIS wrote the damn code from almost scratch. it doens't change how MP architecture is, it just gives two different protocols to choose from. thus the whole architecture of OFP MP is still intact, but there are two way to communicate.

in other words, here's explanation.

let's say OFP MP is a nation, and they used to have one language called. LangA. then what OFP's new code got was another national language called LangB, another language, not restructuing of it's government or social status quo.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a banning list isnt hard its just a list, its up to the admins to use it, its not like it needs to be internation because i doubt kiddies would have a big fat pipe so they can play overseas, its local communities where it happens its just that ofp is too small for them to be worth while, my rtcw match this friday is gona be shoutcasted and everything, as a community were all focused on making the game more popular helping other clans get started we dont go on servers and own noobs we help em become good players, for ofp my local comminity dosnt do much its very small only see the same names over and over not much of a future to look foward to.<span id='postcolor'>

unfortunately, kiddies do have enough pipeline to move from regional basis. for instance, my DSL line, cheapest one available in LA area, can have suitable ping to play in London.(and i did play there sometime). now, they don't have money to get DSL line, but their parent can.

in terms of RTCW situation, kiddies left RTCW long time ago. these kiddies tend to do whatever is hot at the moment. OFP cetainly doesn't fall into 'HOT' item, but it's realtively lesser known to those kiddies and that means we can expect more kiddies to show up.

it's unfortunate that NZ OFP community is small, but that doesn't mean OFP community in genral is. bigger the ppl involved in, more problem they will have. and NA community still has some issues with kiddies once in awhile, still.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Aug. 28 2002,08:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">df2 was overly easy was fun and stuff but was the game where u run around with 60ppl with a saw(i used it) with 100% accuracy<span id='postcolor'>

Before I threw away Land Warrior (took very little time to make that decision), I had fun using the MM1 grenade launcher to barrage enemy respawn positions. Outta grenades? Just step 2 meters over to the armory and load up again. Ugh!

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Aug. 28 2002,07:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,08:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BIS make games to sell. and why do you think they excluded JIP? they are looking at other market(mature ppl), not kiddie's market.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think supporting JIP as a server side option will entice that many more hoodlums to play OFP.

Delta Force, for example, was ruined by cheats, trainers and SAW bunnies , i.e., overly easy to use weapons models.

I appreciated JIP, as it gave me the maximum amount of playing time. Again, server hosts should be able to choose otherwise.<span id='postcolor'>

i'd like to claim that JIP will bring more kiddies.

one of the reasons why those kiddies use cheats is because they want instant satisfication/kill/gratification. and with OFP's current MP join system, it deters them psychologically. if you could get in within 30 seconds, then you just hold on to that need for instant satisfaction and carry it on. however, by waiting more than 5 minutes, these kiddies go away.

and once they get into the game, they will want to continue instant gratification, thus they will rely on cheat.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Aug. 28 2002,07:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Aug. 28 2002,08:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">df2 was overly easy was fun and stuff but was the game where u run around with 60ppl with a saw(i used it) with 100% accuracy<span id='postcolor'>

Before I threw away Land Warrior (took very little time to make that decision), I had fun using the MM1 grenade launcher to barrage enemy respawn positions. Outta grenades? Just step 2 meters over to the armory and load up again. Ugh! <span id='postcolor'>

RESPAWN RAPER!        

Avon, just a few more post(20 something) till 5k!

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,09:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RESPAWN RAPER!        <span id='postcolor'>

I would wash your mouth out with soap but, since you're Ralph Wiggum, you would most probably like the taste.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Avon, just a few more post(20 something) till 5k!<span id='postcolor'>

License to spam?

[HellToupee 0]

these kiddies will come and go faster than rtcw, ofp dosnt appeal to your avg kid hell they have to buy orignal ofp and then resistance to play it. The benefits r far greater. The mp join system also deters alot of players that make a fun game and whats the difference between mp code and net code last time i checked they were the same thing.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Aug. 28 2002,08:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Avon, just a few more post(20 something) till 5k!<span id='postcolor'>

License to spam?<span id='postcolor'>

no...warning to watch out for evil mods

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,09:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RESPAWN RAPER!        <span id='postcolor'>

That brings back good memories of some really fun DF2 games. Hiding prone in tall grass with my Barret, at a far distance and high up from an enemy base in many a CTF or TDM game and popping many a lingering grunt.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Aug. 28 2002)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">License to spam?<span id='postcolor'>

no...warning to watch out for evil mods<span id='postcolor'>

I always thought mods are good and spam is evil.

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Aug. 28 2002,20:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,091)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">RESPAWN RAPER!        <span id='postcolor'>

That brings back good memories of some really fun DF2 games. Hiding prone in tall grass with my Barret, at a far distance and high up from an enemy base in many a CTF or TDM game and popping many a lingering grunt.<span id='postcolor'>

i stumbled upon a few snipers they met mr knife, the rest of the time i was making rambo proud charging into an enemy base with my saw killing ppl as they all missed, o that was fun, even charging up the hill to attack the cheater up high in the air firing off lots explosives, i killed him 4 times i was so proud.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Speaking of evil mods, where has Placebo been keeping himself recently?

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">these kiddies will come and go faster than rtcw, ofp dosnt appeal to your avg kid hell they have to buy orignal ofp and then resistance to play it. The benefits r far greater.<span id='postcolor'>

no..OFP's main attraction is that there are a lot more ways to kill and die. thus even those kiddies who are used to CQB will get some hold of OFP's superiority and try to use cheats. like getting free M21 and sniping. and not to mention that although OFP+OFPR is expensive, once they get it they want most of it, so cheats will be more disgusting. and i bet there are hundresd of OFP CDs around right now, on ebay, by kiddies who don't like it since they can't get instant satisfaction. should JIP be implemented, i bet those CDs will be reused, and a kiddie can shell 30 bucks for OFPR.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The mp join system also deters alot of players that make a fun game and whats the difference between mp code and net code last time i checked they were the same thing.<span id='postcolor'>

oh really? then i see that OFP is not as fun as other games.

mp code and netcode are same? do you know what a socket implementation means?

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 28 2002,20:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">oh really? then i see that OFP is not as fun as other games.

mp code and netcode are same? do you know what a socket implementation means?<span id='postcolor'>

well waitin 30mins isnt fun and alot of the games ive had have been crap, the best games ive had r with around 20ppl but thats very rare and many i used to play with have gone. Your view on games is rather dim u think every one will cheat everyone will ruin your game, i think u should get out more met ppl there not all bad.