[possible bug] Cant headshot if range is on the mid-long range

[maffa 29]

Hello

I would like to have some feedback on n issue that i have encountered on several occasions, but i cant really wrap my head onto this.

I dont seem to be able to succesfully hit a "head" if the shot is farther than -let's say- 300m. This means that even though i have reasonably kept the aim inside the head, the shot misses.

I have first experienced this with a custom mission i made, which is a live target shooting range, where unarmed CSAT soldiers stand still in front of me at different ranges. I used to test it with only a 6.5 cal weapon and a RCO, but i already noticed that i would "miss" -or better, not hit- a headshot even though the dot was spot on, though i had no problem hitting the center of mass.

I didnt pay much attention to it though, until this evenning, when out of boredom i have loaded the NATO showcase. I went to the weapon corner, took an M200 intervention, climbed the lobby like building up to the roof and shot the resetting target stands. Now, even with a SOS sight and a sniper rifle, i wasnt able to hit the "head" of the target, but only the center of mass.

So, what's the deal? Is it me? Does it happen to everybody? Is it a known bug? Dont i know something about dispersion (for a sniper rifle at less than 300m, pfff)?

Edited October 28, 2013 by Maffa
problem solved

[Tacti-Cool 10]

only thing i can think of is you're not compensating for recoil. Which if you're aiming at the head would drive the round up. Hence which i never aim for headshots

[andersson 285]

And you have adjusted for bullet drop?

[SaBrE_UK 0]

Could this be related to the fact that distant soldiers are sunk slightly into the grass, but their collisions/hitpoints are not? At one time at least this was the case, and I am unsure if it was ever fixed. Do you have the same problem if the soldiers are on a non-grassy terrain where they do not sink at distance?

[Crash 10]

And you have adjusted for bullet drop?

bullet drop, MOA, wind, spin drift, atmospheric pressure, etc. :p Pretty hard to do head shots at that range in real life, especially outdoors.

[maffa 29]

No mates, im afraid you all missed the point (ahah).

Head: no. Center of mass: yes. No effect that makes the bullet go lower than intended can be responsible for not hitting an upper target but hitting a lower just aiming straight.

The only reasonable hypotesys is the recoil compensation -which is not a cause in real world because recoil happens when the bullet leaves the barrel, so it's a non factor in terms of aim, but i dont know if it's wrongly modeled in A3 or not.

Just try to do it, take a 400m-500m target, use a magnified scope like the RCO or SOS, try aimimng at the head and see what happens. You may hit it just fine and the problem is mine, i dont know.

---------- Post added at 08:18 ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 ----------

@sabre: no they were standing on paved asphalt of the airstrip in Stratis

Edited October 28, 2013 by Maffa

[Greenfist 1863]

Could this be related to the fact that distant soldiers are sunk slightly into the grass, but their collisions/hitpoints are not? At one time at least this was the case, and I am unsure if it was ever fixed. Do you have the same problem if the soldiers are on a non-grassy terrain where they do not sink at distance?

I believe the soldiers don't actually sink but the ground elevates.

[maddogx 13]

I believe the soldiers don't actually sink but the ground elevates.

Nope, they do actually sink - but only the visual LOD. Their geometry is still in the normal place, which means you may need to aim above the head in order to hit it.

[maffa 29]

but again this is not the case as i it should result in a center-of-mass hit and consequent wound and jerk, and not a total miss as if there were no hitbox.

[Greenfist 1863]

Nope, they do actually sink - but only the visual LOD. Their geometry is still in the normal place, which means you may need to aim above the head in order to hit it.

Oh my, please say it ain't so! :butbut:

I checked if it was totally impossible to hit the head:

(You may have go fullscreen to see bullet's tracer line.)

The bullet penetrates target's head quite nicely. The shooter on the grassy knoll was me. 300m away, using Rahim+SOS.

But to hit the head, I had to always aim 20-30 cm above it in spite of the fact that I was exactly 300m away and zeroed to.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Greenfist

[maddogx 13]

But to hit the head, I had to always aim 20-30 cm above it in spite of the fact that I was exactly 300m away and zeroed to. Was it because my sights displayed him sunk to the ground?

Pretty much, yes. :(

There have been tickets and threads with suggestions for better methods than the current one, but so far there has been no word on whether anything is being implemented. (Similar to the mid-range texture issue.) I fear this is a problem that mods definitely cannot solve.

[Cathrynn 10]

Just tested 5.56, 6.5 and 7.62 with the SOS set to 400m. The targets were standing and out at exactly 400m on the Kamino range. I didn't notice any issues with headshots apart from the fact that some of the targets would sometimes take 3 rounds of 5.56 to the head before they'd drop (extended armour is off btw).

Maffa: Are you on dev build or stable? I'm on dev.

[maffa 29]

stable..

ill be doing some tests and a video. in any case an update is due tomorrow so that may change things again (and save my face in case all wrote was bull$hit)

[-Coulum- 35]

If its using 3d scopes its probably because of this issue.

Do you have the same issue when using the SOS (2d scope)?

I have no problem scoring a headshot at 300m but I am using TMR 2d scope mod.

[maffa 29]

i usually use TMR for weapon resting, but the attempt i did now was with a totally vanilla A3 stable build. I took a 320 LRR with an SOS sight. Laying low, I cant hit a damn head at 100m!

Im uploading a vieo, it's pretty slow, anyway i shot a couple of other enemies before. They are at set ranges: first one is 10m, second is 30m, third is 50m, fourth is 100m. I cant headshot from the third on! Plce the dot in the middle of his bushy eyebrows, pull the trigger and miss. Body mass is not a problem, tho.

Damn.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Maffa
modified ranges

[Greenfist 1863]

Plce the dot in the middle of his bushy eyebrows, pull the trigger and miss. Body mass is not a problem, tho.

Damn.

Ah, the old "high-powered magnet deflector in the eyebrows" trick.

Do you really miss his head or doesn't it just affect his facial hair?

[maffa 29]

here it is. as i said, forst is 10m ,second 30m, third is 50m, fourth 100m

[Greenfist 1863]

Your zeroing is at 500m?! So at 100m the bullet is quite high and maybe going over his head?

[maffa 29]

AH! You are right.

By zeroing at 300 (which is the minimum) i can shoot just fine. Problem is I dont know the straight flight path of these weapons, so if i have to shoot at a target 200m away and i have my weapon zeroed at 300, i may still miss my target unless i aim lower at center of mass.

But all in all problem solved, thanks!

[Tacti-Cool 10]

....lol

[andersson 285]

So I was right all the time, you didnt compensate for the bullets flightpath (bulletdrop) ;)

[maffa 29]

uh well no, the damn sight was zeroed for way too high, so if I shot near enough i would hit but if the distrance would increase the bullet would have the space to climb out, missing the target. I find it strage that the sight is not zeroed to its minumum and/or at the maximum straight flight path of the rifle/caliber, but thats it... I would have never guessed by myself, i dont use longer sight that much in A3 so i didnt even know they had the sight zeroing, i thoght that was an ACE thing in A2.

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

now, wait a second. The more i think about it, the less it makes sense.

the M200 Intervention, the rifle this M320LRR is based on, has more than a km straight flight trajectory. This means that it's no use zeroing the sight for less than 1000 meters, because the bullet will keep on going straight (gravity wise). Other sniper rifles, albeit not that powerful, have hundreds and hundreds of meters in terms of straight flight trajectory.

now: this is the first sniper rifle/cla than has less than a AK47 in terms of expressed joule and cant fire a straight bullet for more than 50m, or this zeroing stuff is damn wrong.

[[frl]myke 14]

As soon a bullet leaves the barrel, it will drop. It is called gravity. No gun will shoot straight, it is physically impossible. Also the default zeroing is based on the usual engagement range that particular rifle is meant for.

[maffa 29]

no myke sorry. although gravity applies for anything regarding mass on this part of the universe, if something is tossed with enough energy it will keep going fighting with gravity (or we wouldnt have gon to the moon, you'll agree).

When we talk about rifles and calibers there are a few parameters we need to know. One of these is the straight flight path, i.e. how much far the bulle will go before losing power and thus starting to drop. If a rifle has a 300m straight flight trajectory, it means that the bullet will go straight from the tip of the barrel up to 300m, so it's no use zeroing for any range less than 300m and consequently there is no need to compensate (i.e. raising your aim to cover up for the gravity drop).

The video we can see makes no f***ing sense.

I have a sniper rifle that, even without comparing with its supposed real life counterpart, should at least be able to have a straight flight path of 500m.

I have a sight zeroed at 500m.

AND I CANNOT HIT A TARGET AT 100m if i dont zero at 300m.

WTF?

Please someone help me understand this. It's geometrically impossible.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Maffa

[-Coulum- 35]

No Mykes right, bullets accelerate downward as soon as they leave the barrel assuming they don't have fins or something to divert their flight path. Of course the result is negligible for the first bit of travel (50m). For something to go upward and "fight gravity" as you say, you need some upward component to your shot - thus adjusting the sights so your gun shoots at a slightly upward angle.