Tier1 Silencer Fix

[nimrod123 11]

Why thanks, I'll be sure to tell the rounds I and 40 others fire tomorrow that they are doing the wrong thing. I'll just ignore the change because it shouldn't happen.

then you are using a bullet interruption suppressor (the wipes firewalker describes). most suppressors reduce the muzzle gasses to subsonic speeds, but do nothing to the bullet, they also allow the nitrogen gases in the powder time to suppress the ignition of the gasses, suppressing the muzzle flash. they do next to nothing to the bullet itself, and sometimes even stablise the flight due to normalizing the gasses and extending the barrel.

if you are still getting the supersonic "crack" then you are using a standard suppresor thats normally only allowed into civilian hands (at least in my country) with a E class licence, so the low caliber weapons can be used in urban areas with limited disruption

the wipes method is sub-optimal since it is a decaying solution that is normally only good for 200 rounds in small calibers before significant leakage starts to occur, or as few as 40 in large rounds (12.7mm +).

[Banshee 9]

From what I've heard the surpressors do change the POI because they slightly decrease the muzzle climb that's influencing the round while it travels trough the barrel. But that's about it.

[maturin 12]

The thing is, suppressors in ArmA reduce bullet velocity because you're supposed to be using subsonic ammo. This is evidenced by the very quiet sound the weapon makes.

If you were to shoot normal ammo with a suppressor, as in your mod, the gunshot noise would be completely different. Maybe you could double this as a sound mod, so suppressed rifles will give off that loud crack? Then it will be entirely realistic.

[FireWalker 329]

The thing is, suppressors in ArmA reduce bullet velocity because you're supposed to be using subsonic ammo. This is evidenced by the very quiet sound the weapon makes.

If you were to shoot normal ammo with a suppressor, as in your mod, the gunshot noise would be completely different. Maybe you could double this as a sound mod, so suppressed rifles will give off that loud crack? Then it will be entirely realistic.

Agreed.

Generally speaking - to stay subsonic a bullet needs to stay under 1150 fps (based on ambient temp of 90° F) (+/- depending on temp conditions) and a typical rifle round is normally over 3,000 fps.

So yes we should certainly here a sonic crack, but telling where the shot came from would still be a little difficult, because the signature itself is suppressed. And remember, the shock wave "crack" is only heard as it passes.

[Banshee 9]

The thing is, suppressors in ArmA reduce bullet velocity because you're supposed to be using subsonic ammo. This is evidenced by the very quiet sound the weapon makes.

If you were to shoot normal ammo with a suppressor, as in your mod, the gunshot noise would be completely different. Maybe you could double this as a sound mod, so suppressed rifles will give off that loud crack? Then it will be entirely realistic.

Well in fact the rounds do create a sonic crack when shot trough the mods suppressors. Alltough you can only hear it when the bullet is shot at you.

We've done some more testing yesterday. AI 300m away will react to incoming super sonic rounds and roughly estimate where the shooters position is, but won't know exactly where he is. So that's the diffrence between suppressed or not. Kinda realistic, isn't it?

For .45 (The Vermin for example) the AI does not really know where you are since they don't hear the shot. They go into alerted mode, but won't spot you as good as with suppressed 6.5mm for example.

This leads me to the desire to update this mod with subsonic rounds for all calibers. But for that I need real life ballistics which I'm trying to come by at the moment.

[FireWalker 329]

Well in fact the rounds do create a sonic crack when shot trough the mods suppressors. Alltough you can only hear it when the bullet is shot at you.

We've done some more testing yesterday. AI 300m away will react to incoming super sonic rounds and roughly estimate where the shooters position is, but won't know exactly where he is. So that's the diffrence between suppressed or not. Kinda realistic, isn't it?

For .45 (The Vermin for example) the AI does not really know where you are since they don't hear the shot. They go into alerted mode, but won't spot you as good as with suppressed 6.5mm for example.

This leads me to the desire to update this mod with subsonic rounds for all calibers. But for that I need real life ballistics which I'm trying to come by at the moment.

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistic-chart

[galzohar 31]

If the game would assume subsonic ammunition then it would also have a different ballistic flight path. Haven't tested in a while but it seems like they have the same flight path.

[Banshee 9]

How intrested are you guys in a mod that brings in subsonic ammo for all the rifles?

Will it be worth the work or not? We as Tier1 don't particulary need it at this moment since for subsonic we can just use the Vermin .45 and the new FN .45 pistol.

[m1n1d0u 29]

yeah it's a great idea but does it affect the AI ?

[Banshee 9]

Of course it does. We've done testing on this topic. While the AI gets the general direction the shooter is at if you fire at them with super sonic rounds, they don't if you use subsonic. However with Subsonic the damage and range is greatly reduced.

[DLaukhuff308 10]

This isn't actually true, they do reduce the muzzle velocity noticably due to the way they work and thus change the ballistics of the round slightly, you get slightly more bullet drop with a suppressor on than without.

Buddy, please inform yourself on what is true about suppressors before adding misinformation to the conversation. The vast majority, as correctly stated by Banshee, of suppressors DO NOT affect the velocity of the projectile by slowing the projectile down to sub-sonic levels!!!

If anything a suppressor attached to any gun might potentially slightly increase the muzzle velocity because of trapping the gasses through a series of baffles, hence slightly increasing the pressure in the gun (cyclic rates) and pressure behind the projectile. Most modern auto rifles have alternate gas settings on piston guns to adjust this pressure levels in the gas system. The only military firearm that I know of that has a built in suppressor into the barrel, that has a series of gas bleed off ports in the barrel, which slows standard velocity rounds below the sound barrier is the HK MP5SD, again as correctly stated by Banshee. Modern military grade suppressors only attempt to trap, slow, and dissipate the heat of the expanding gasses behind the bullet. The supersonic crack is only affected by having a lower powder charge in the weapon to fire the projectile at sub sonic speeds. How many suppressors have you used or owned, how about even any military weapons for that matter? I've fired over a dozen of different types of military weapons, shot thousands of rounds out of each of them, and own several different types of suppressors. What do you have? A computer and an Xbox I suppose.

What this mod seems to be doing is making attaching a damn suppressor to your firearm of choice more realistic because you are shooting standard velocity rounds through the gun so therefore only the sound signature is reduced by controlling the muzzle blast and the suppressor has NO affect on the ammo you are more than likely using. It's a buff to the suppressors being used because it eliminates the damage drop off from the bullet and makes the round have the same damage levels. Hopefully you still hear a supersonic crack going down range, and when they add subsonic ammo the gun shooting will be even more quiet at the cost of vastly reduced range and power of the rounds.

Some rounds are naturally subsonic such as .45 ACP and heavier 147grn 9mm NATO. So realistically when adding a suppressor there shouldn't be a damage and range drop for guns shooting these rounds because the rounds naturally travel at subsonic speeds. The 5.56mm NATO rounds are high velocity naturally, and when the round is "modified" to be subsonic, not the suppressor doing that but rather the ammo, the range and damage potential is vastly weakened. The shooter is basically taking a bigger cartridge, 5.56mm NATO, taking a heavier gun, AR-15, and reducing the power of the round to the limits of a standard velocity .22 LR round!

How is this SO DIFFICULT for gamers to understand when there is a ton of information about them online?

Please go back to playing COD and let the men handle the conversation. Just sit back in your child's car seat, enjoy your Capri Sun juicy drink, and go along for the ride, Junior...:mad::mad::mad:

---------- Post added at 14:33 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------

Quick video on how they work.

http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=7#30

A military grade suppressor manufacturers FAQ's.

[065tim 10]

Suppressors do effect ballistics on weapons with floating barrels by adding more weight to the barrel and disturbing the natural vibrations the shot produces. (even though the manufacturers say they don't)

Enough for marksmen/snipers to have to make a whole new ballistics table. It has no effect on damage though.

I don't think the effects on combat rifles and carbines is all that much because those weapons are not that precise in the first place and the distance you shoot at isn't that much either.

If subsonic ammo would be assumed, the game needs subsonic magazines.

[maturin 12]

Well in fact the rounds do create a sonic crack when shot trough the mods suppressors. Alltough you can only hear it when the bullet is shot at you.

The shooter should hear it too, though. He's close enough to be hit by the shockwave as the round accelerates.

Can the crack be heard 20m behind the gun? That's a question I'd dearly love answered.

[galzohar 31]

Shooters don't hear their own supersonic crack. It is only an effect heard when the bullets is headed in your direction. It's simple physics, really (speed of sound etc).

Maybe its echo in some cases, but that's a completely different story.

[mjolnir66 48]

How many suppressors have you used or owned, how about even any military weapons for that matter? I've fired over a dozen of different types of military weapons, shot thousands of rounds out of each of them, and own several different types of suppressors. What do you have? A computer and an Xbox I suppose.

I tell you what, I'll just ignore the fact that I was firing a AI .338 with and without a suppressor all the week I typed that post shall I? Specifically to work out the difference between them. Or maybe the fact that I've spent the past 4 years of my life knocking holes in targets with all sorts of different types of weapons as an infantryman. Or just maybe, you could work out what should have been obvious from the way I have written my posts in this thread and shown a little bit of respect rather than jump on your internet high horse.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Mjolnir66

[scarecrow398 43]

Interesting addon, great work so far.

Curious though about 3rd party addons such are RH M4's, or those of us who use TMR which creates pistol, SMG and LMG supressors and such, how would one go about adding a new section for said supressors?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Scarecrow398

[dr.proctor 10]

Well as the supersonic crack is not the typical start from one point and spread spherically sound but rather a cone dragged by the bullet i get that the shooter is not in the place to be hit by that cone.

But i can't really believe the only thing the shooter hears is that "pew" sound the game includes.

Most footage of shooting silenced larger caliber guns rather shows a crack sound than that pew and usally the camera is located behind the muzzle.

[oktyabr 12]

How intrested are you guys in a mod that brings in subsonic ammo for all the rifles?

Will it be worth the work or not? We as Tier1 don't particulary need it at this moment since for subsonic we can just use the Vermin .45 and the new FN .45 pistol.

First off, thanks for this very nice addon! I wondered why suppressors seemed like they were taking twice as many shots to drop a target! :mad:

I'd LOVE to have real subsonic rounds and weapons for covert ops. An MP5SD (with real subsonic ballistics) would be a great toy to play with as well. Hope you are still working on the ammo mod :)

[eymerich 11]

Great add-on.

But I have a little request: Would it possible to have this interesting idea in an sqf file instead than a mod?

[maturin 12]

Shooters don't hear their own supersonic crack. It is only an effect heard when the bullets is headed in your direction. It's simple physics, really (speed of sound etc).

Maybe its echo in some cases, but that's a completely different story.

Then how can we hear the sonic crack from suppressed weapons in youtube videos where the camera is located behind the shooter? How can there be a deafening crack heard in one spot, and utter silence a few centimeters to the rear?

[galzohar 31]

It's difficult to provide an answer since you haven't actually posted a link to such a video.