AI Pilots in Attack Helicopters

[UltimateBawb 1]

The AI behavior when flying attack helicopters is extremely unrealistic, they only strafe targets. Attack helicopters are supposed to stay at a distance to fire on enemies, not do low flybys like jets. This is really immersion breaking when I see a pair of AH-99's fly 50m overhead. Not only does it limit the amount of time they can fire on targets, it also makes them vulnerable to small arms fire and generally anything else.

Is there a ticket for this? I'll make on if not, it needs to be fixed.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

To be honest, i wouldn't expect anything to be done about that soon, as the same for a ton of other AI related problems. But the best thing would be a ticket on FBT (Feedback Tracker). If don't find a ticket feel free to post one.

[frag 0]

I would really like someone to really rewrite the AI of the choppers. Yes, they should stay at distance, at a minimal altitude and engage from there. I will open a thread in the request addon section. I am not sure how difficult it would be.

[bakerman 247]

I agree that the AI aren't good, but that goes for all of the AI, however things are improving. What I don't agree with is that it's unrealistic, for a comanche it might be silly, but not "unrealistic".

Soviet hinds (mi24) used to fly in low and fast to attack targets as it limited the time the helicopter was exposed, keep in mind that small arms were not a real threat. Fast forward to Iraq and we see NATO pilots often using the same tactics to avoid surface to air missiles.

Attacking from a great distance at tree level was to be used in the cold war to eliminate enemy armor. It became effective when radar started being mounted on helicopters, because radar is needed to effectively engage targets at extreme ranges. Radar will not pick up infantry in cover or in an urban area, so for engaging infantry or hidden targets a gunship needs to go in and fight it out, and then you don't want to be hovering in one spot close to the ground.

Keep in mind that everything I say is just my opinion on the matter.

[xendance 3]

I agree that the AI aren't good, but that goes for all of the AI, however things are improving. What I don't agree with is that it's unrealistic, for a comanche it might be silly, but not "unrealistic".

Soviet hinds (mi24) used to fly in low and fast to attack targets as it limited the time the helicopter was exposed, keep in mind that small arms were not a real threat. Fast forward to Iraq and we see NATO pilots often using the same tactics to avoid surface to air missiles.

Attacking from a great distance at tree level was to be used in the cold war to eliminate enemy armor. It became effective when radar started being mounted on helicopters, because radar is needed to effectively engage targets at extreme ranges. Radar will not pick up infantry in cover or in an urban area, so for engaging infantry or hidden targets a gunship needs to go in and fight it out, and then you don't want to be hovering in one spot close to the ground.

Keep in mind that everything I say is just my opinion on the matter.

That doesn't really work on most of altis, it's relatively tree free and the terrain is rather flat.

[bakerman 247]

Altis has a large array of different terrain types, from salt flats to tree covered mountains. The problem is that coding AI pilots to use the correct tactic in each terrain type for different situations is not something I would like to do.

[Smurf 12]

A rewrite of AI FSM to include offensive and defensive\support postures would be great, can be extended to foot mobiles, ground vehicles and air (helos at least) and even could be a agglutination of commanding options for use on a future possible re-structuration of the commanding interface, while opening a new page of strategy thinking and possibilities.

Offensive: Aggressive, lots of bounding overwatch, force move, use of smoke and grenades.

Defensive: Stand in position, pick targets from far and then advance ("Area Clear"; annoying right now to control AIs), use of cover, high angles covering arcs (until contact) and indirect fire.

Think on how RTS games handle their AI. Obiously, easier said that done.

[frag 0]

I agree but the chopper AI is already detecting units at a good distance. A first step would be to stop and hover right there (if there is no significant threat close) ...and open fire from that position. There is no reason to charge the target if it can be engaged from distance.

I am pretty sure that all those guys who modify the soldier AI could do a better chopper AI than the vanilla one in few hours of work.

[xendance 3]

A rewrite of AI FSM to include offensive and defensive\support postures would be great, can be extended to foot mobiles, ground vehicles and air (helos at least) and even could be a agglutination of commanding options for use on a future possible re-structuration of the commanding interface, while opening a new page of strategy thinking and possibilities.

Offensive: Aggressive, lots of bounding overwatch, force move, use of smoke and grenades.

Defensive: Stand in position, pick targets from far and then advance ("Area Clear"; annoying right now to control AIs), use of cover, high angles covering arcs (until contact) and indirect fire.

Think on how RTS games handle their AI. Obiously, easier said that done.

Would be nice if some sort of RTS AI could be bolted onto the high command system.

The system already shows friendly and enemy positions and their health afaik.

[calin_banc 19]

Altis has a large array of different terrain types, from salt flats to tree covered mountains. The problem is that coding AI pilots to use the correct tactic in each terrain type for different situations is not something I would like to do.

Then don't choppers or planes or even infantry if it is impossible to make something good. Just make the game MP only and that's it! :)

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

On the contrary I think it is fine that the AI pilots do strafe runs.

They are much more vulnerable to enemy weapons when hovering still at a distance.

Most real-life attack-heli engagements in Afghanistan are done doing cannon fly-overs, angled cannon fly-bys and low nose-down rocket strafes.

Rarely are they hovering stationary unless assaulting a fixed target and taking some precaution (ie night time, behind crest of hill, etc), or lining up/lasing a target.

Concerning the AH-99.

The 20mm cannon is relatively ineffective, though still useful for suppression.

The AH-99 is primarily a vehicle/tank destroyer, and is best suited for hovering out at 3km dishing out DAGR HE-AT rockets before bugging out to re-arm/rinse/repeat.

Mi-48 is a good CAS heli as it can take some hits, has plenty of unguided rockets for strafing, and a nasty 30mm AP/HE cannon for high flyovers and fly-bys.

Edited October 23, 2013 by MDCCLXXVI

[undead8 10]

Do you mean unrealistic like that ?

[progamer 14]

On the contrary I think it is fine that the AI pilots do strafe runs.

They are much more vulnerable to enemy weapons when hovering still at a distance.

Most real-life attack-heli engagements in Afghanistan are done doing cannon fly-overs, angled cannon fly-bys and low nose-down rocket strafes.

Rarely are they hovering stationary unless assaulting a fixed target and taking some precaution (ie night time, behind crest of hill, etc), or lining up/lasing a target.

Concerning the AH-99.

The 20mm cannon is relatively ineffective, though still useful for suppression.

The AH-99 is primarily a vehicle/tank destroyer, and is best suited for hovering out at 3km dishing out DAGR HE-AT rockets before bugging out to re-arm/rinse/repeat.

Mi-48 is a good CAS heli as it can take some hits, has plenty of unguided rockets for strafing, and a nasty 30mm AP/HE cannon for high flyovers and fly-bys.

The Comanche was developed as more of a Attack helicopter-scout helicopter hybrid I think. Tough I could be wrong.

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

The Comanche was developed as more of a Attack helicopter-scout helicopter hybrid I think. Tough I could be wrong.

Of course.

I'm referring to the AH-99, the ArmA 3 variant of the Comanche.

In my opinion it--in its Vanilla form--won't get much play in community-created missions because it is too-effective of a vehicle killer. Friendly infantry squads don't need AT capabilities due to the robust nature of the AH-99 HE-AT rockets.

In my opinion, for the sake of balancing, it should have 2-4 HE-AT rockets, and the rest being simple guided HE rockets.

No comment on the ASRAAMs.

IRL I think the RAH-66 Comanche was developed to map out enemy positions without being noticed, then bug out and let combined arms neutralize the targets.

Light, low radar cross section, low heat signature, advanced sensors, baffled engines, etc.

Edited October 24, 2013 by MDCCLXXVI

[Tonci87 163]

On the contrary I think it is fine that the AI pilots do strafe runs.

They are much more vulnerable to enemy weapons when hovering still at a distance.

Most real-life attack-heli engagements in Afghanistan are done doing cannon fly-overs, angled cannon fly-bys and low nose-down rocket strafes.

Rarely are they hovering stationary unless assaulting a fixed target and taking some precaution (ie night time, behind crest of hill, etc), or lining up/lasing a target.

Concerning the AH-99.

The 20mm cannon is relatively ineffective, though still useful for suppression.

The AH-99 is primarily a vehicle/tank destroyer, and is best suited for hovering out at 3km dishing out DAGR HE-AT rockets before bugging out to re-arm/rinse/repeat.

Mi-48 is a good CAS heli as it can take some hits, has plenty of unguided rockets for strafing, and a nasty 30mm AP/HE cannon for high flyovers and fly-bys.

The engagements in Afghanistan have an extremely low AA/heavy Weapons count to it and can´t be compared to the warfare we have in Arma 3. I can assure you that IRL no sane Helicoper Pilot will do an overpass over enemy units if those units might have AA Weapons or high caliber MGs with them. That would be just asking for desaster to happen.

The commanche was developed with two things in mind:

1. Get on the flank, or even behind the enemy lines unseen and neutralize targets (Supplies, Artillery, Command posts).

2. Scout and lase for big gunships like the Apache.