European Union (Fictional - ArmA III Setting)

[jinzor 31]

Strider (Fennek), yeah I'll look into it when I eventually do the vehicles (doing infantry first). But stuff like the Comanche? Don't think so. I would have gone with the Mk20 had it used the same ammunition as NATO (I want to keep the tradition up), but it doesn't so I don't think I'll be using it for the EU. I'd rather have the EU have its own, signature weapon to distinguish itself from NATO/CSAT/AAF/IAF.

[AveryTheKitty 2626]

I was thinking of a Mk20 Rifle using 65x39. Idk, maybe.

SA80 possibly? Maybe even a fictional gun?

[jinzor 31]

I was thinking of a Mk20 Rifle using 65x39. Idk, maybe.

SA80 possibly? Maybe even a fictional gun?

Yeah, I'm currently planning to make a fictional version of the G36 which uses the same ammo type as the MX series (the current NATO assault rifle in ArmA III).

Before I start modelling it I just need to get all the software (I haven't made an ArmA III addon before, so I need to learn a bit about the game/software before I rush ahead and model something which may not be usable).

[AveryTheKitty 2626]

Cool. Maybe a Bullpup Carbine version? And what GL will it use? 3GL? EGLM? AG36?

[mistyronin 1181]

Any thoughts about any possible infantry camo? BTW in the video I posted before you could also see the Merlin ( Mohawk in A3 ) and plenty of G36 :P

[jinzor 31]

Cool. Maybe a Bullpup Carbine version? And what GL will it use? 3GL? EGLM? AG36?

I was thinking maybe using the AG36, since there are plenty of reference images of it being attached to a G36. EGLM's look awesome but I don't think that they're able to fit onto a G36.

Any thoughts about any possible infantry camo? BTW in the video I posted before you could also see the Merlin ( Mohawk in A3 ) and plenty of G36 :P

Yeah, the stuff you posted about combining currently existing European countries' camos with just one "European" camo was interesting. I'll have to play around with that to see if the camo would work/look good. At first I was considering using something like the FELIN-system camo (in the images I linked) for woodland, but I could change my mind. I'll definitely need to find something to fit the Mediterranean, though, since that's the primary setting for ArmA III.

[mistyronin 1181]

Uhm, just to give more ideas, let's see what they wear the european armies in the Aegean Sea, Greek islands, Cyprus and close there.

Cyprus National Guard ( Woodland MARPAT like the US Marines ):

http://www.parikiaki.com/wp-content/uploads/cyprus-army.jpg (561 kB)

Greek / Hellenic Army ( some kind of striped woodland ):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3534/3974722957_0b431e41e8.jpg (115 kB)

Malta's Army ( ok a bit far away, but is where the AAF was based on, woodland ):

And well the British Army stationed in Cyprus UK bases:

Turkey's Army ( ok, it's not EU, but it has close ties with the EU forces, common projects, they have even invaded part of a EU country xD, woodland):

http://asbarez.com/App/Asbarez/eng/2009/06/turkish_army_nato_exercise.jpg (265 kB)

Let's not forget Israel's Army ( neither EU, but the lack of camo and use of olive color is interesting )

Edited September 16, 2013 by MistyRonin

[jinzor 31]

There was a camo from a video game called Tom Clancy's EndWar, for the European faction, which kind of looked Mediterranean. I've managed to replicate it down here.

Do you think this would be a good camo?

Edited September 16, 2013 by Jinzor

[mistyronin 1181]

Do you think this would be a good camo?

Uhm, at least for me I need to see it in action to judge properly. But looks good ( maybe a little too bright ).

Are you able to do some kind of fast texture ( or apply this one directly ) to the models in game? To see how it looks with a unit in prone position in the middle of some bushes.

EDIT: What do you think about polish army camo:

http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/poland/ranks_uniforms/uniforms/pictures/Polish_Army_Poland_soldiers_combat_uniforms_006.jpg (477 kB)

I think it could fit the mediterranean area real good, maybe even with a few tweaks like a few "german" dots mixed.

Edited September 17, 2013 by MistyRonin

[jinzor 31]

That looks pretty good, actually. Definitely on my list.

Regarding ArmA III modding; how does one add addons like this to ArmA III? Using the ArmA II BI Tools? Will there be ArmA III BI Tools soon? I won't start modelling until I know exactly what I need to do to export them into the game first, otherwise I may accidentally waste my time if there's something I was supposed to do but didn't realise I had to do at the time, know what I mean?

[mistyronin 1181]

Regarding ArmA III modding; how does one add addons like this to ArmA III? Using the ArmA II BI Tools? Will there be ArmA III BI Tools soon? I won't start modelling until I know exactly what I need to do to export them into the game first, otherwise I may accidentally waste my time if there's something I was supposed to do but didn't realise I had to do at the time, know what I mean?

Right now, people are using A2 tools with great results, though at some point in the future there should be a release of new tools. But right now everyone is using O2 to model, which btw has more tutorials.

My suggestion is to start first with the AAF soldiers retexturing their camo ( here you have a tutorial ) and maybe some vehicle retexture. Then create the futuristic G36A2, and after it going bigger ( here you have how to create an addon from scratch ).

Anything you do with A2 tools you would be able to use it if they release new tools.

Edited September 17, 2013 by MistyRonin

[jagdtiger74 10]

I still dont get the point of the weapons. There is no European Army and it is most likely that there never will. EUFOR as an example with the video shown is a multinational Headquarter. In it are Troops of countries out of the EU that decide to plan and conduct an operation together. For that the commanding and communications infrastructure is created. So that the overall execution of the mission with those multiple nations involved can centrally be led. A good example is the ongoing Mission Atalanta (protection and fight against pirates around the horn of Africa). The European Union decided on a mandate and the execution was given EUNAVFOR which is the naval part. The forces involved are part of a NATO naval group. The operation is run from the UK and there is a changing Force Commander in the AO. But all the assets in the AO, in this case ships,aircraft and crew, are standard assets of the countries involved. So a German frigate has a German CO, German crew and German equipment. Only in the next level up which is the HQ of the whole operation there is multinational mix up. Like intelligence officers from multiple countries working alongside for situation assessment. Still wearing there countries Uniforms and equipment's. In every operation in the past which was conducted b EUFOR, EUROKORPS, SHAPE, AFCENT you name it, the forces involved are still national forces, use national equipment and uniforms. They use Badges on the uniform thats all. The multinational aspect is mainly HQ work. So even though I like the idea of your setting I completely disagree with the approach to generate on uniform for all and one set of equipment for all. Which not only from an operational standpoint is total BS but is totally unlikely to happen. It simply does not make sense.

For the helicopters, multi purpose attack helicopters are a rare thing in the EU. There is the EUROCOPTER Tiger, shared by France, Spain and Germany and the Augusta A129 from Italy. The British use an Apache licensed by Westland.

[mistyronin 1181]

There is no European Army and it is most likely that there never will.

That's your opinion. Same people said about the USA, a bunch of different European colonies that gather together as a union... Well even a hundreds years ago it seemed impossible to have a common market in Europe, or a common coin, or a common government.

A united European Army has been a subject for debate a lot of times ( even this year ), it would allow a reduction of military expenses and give more power to the union in foreign affairs ( that's why right now they are creating the shared Eurocopter Tiger, Eurofighter, also other weapon systems like AA etc. ).

In fact, the idea of the EU is to create some kind of United States of Europe, with a common market, a common coin ( Euro ), a common police ( Europol ), a common parliament ( European Parliament ), a common gov ( European Council and European Commission ) a constitution ( treaty of Lisbon ), a common foreign policy ( The High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy ) etc.

If we keep like these last years, more and more the countries are sharing its powers with the EU, until there will be a point that the EU gov will be more strong than countries gov.

This last years, as a first step to a bigger army, there has been created the EuroFor ( a permanent European reaction force ) and also some EU battlegroups. So it's not a crazy prediction, than in a close future, there may be a full fledged common army ( maybe as a only force, or in conjunction with each country's army ).

Edit:

Eu Observer article

EuroNews

Angela Merkels dream of a common army

Edited September 17, 2013 by MistyRonin

[jagdtiger74 10]

Well, no.

You are actually wrong on all accounts of your argument. Perhaps the press or the view in Finland but most of what you said is simply not true.

To start with the easy one, the Eurocopter is produced by Eurocopter Group. Eurocopter Group is a company and therefor follows only economical reasoning. It is the result of the fusion of Aerospatioal (French) DASA (German) and a spanish company (name forgotten). Eurocopter belongs to EADS, Airbus is part of them aswell. So the hole sharing story is true to the aspect that only a huge cooperation like that can actually afford to develop a weapons system like that but it resulted out of economical reasoning and sure enough wasnt ordered by some sort of european parliament.

The reduction of military expenses can most likely also only be achieved via that route, the biggest player in the market develops something and makes it available to the other countries. But no government organisation can order that process. We are not living in Russia for that matter.

The political process you are describing is something that has been discussed for even longer than the EU's existence and to a certain degree good effects have been achieved. Like the the trade union. Others like the Europol work already but their work is very specific and is concerned with crimes that span over multiple borders. Which makes sense, because what use would an italian police man be in a dutch city? Aside from the fact that that would be illegal anyway. The common foreign policy is something that is a wishfull thinking, because as of now the EU Countries are sovereign nations with varying interests. For example France has far different ties to countries in North Africa and therefor different involvement and interests. Besides the european players are in G8 and have a seat with the UN which in terms of weight and influence is quite sufficient.

European Parliament is a structure above a structure, so everything that passes there has to pass implementation in the countries involved. A process that does not work smoothly and certainly will not get easier in the future. Since the decisions taken there have to be accepted on a national level. Now tell the french that their goose liver is not legal anymore. Get the point.

With the ongoing crisis in europe there are actually quite strong movements developing in countries like France and Germany, as a matter of fact even in Greece that are against further involvement on a european level. Specifically with regards to currency. So i would not be so optimistic about that.

EUROFOR was a RRF which is as i stated before a mission based Joined Headquater, not an Army.

Same applies to the Battlegroup concept it is quite small, 1500 units per battle groups and only 2 ready for deployment.

As a comparison the EUROKORPS has a full French and a full German Tank Division, plus 2 mechanized Brigades. Thats roughly 50.000 troops. It can be used by EU or SHAPE (NATO).

But as stated multiple times now, it is more a structural organ. The troops in those multinational units will still be soldiers from a certain country and will wear their uniform and gear.

Exceptions might be the Barrett or some sort of badge.

So wishfull thinking of United States of Europe does not necessarily make it happen and even though I have no earthly idea what the finish think about that I am very certain that countries like France and Germany will not go for it. As a matter of fact even spain and italy are highly unlikely.

[Corvinus 35]

That's a very interesting idea, Jinzor, and I myself have pondered a few times about how a unified military of a European Union (as a single country, or a confederation, or a federation - you got my point) would look like. Unfortunately, I don't have neither time nor skill to help creating actual assets, so I will try to help in my usual way - by writing a long post that no one will read anyway.

1. Is the current, real life "Eurocorps" (link below) really the first step to creating a unified European army, or is it just a type of peacekeeping force for Europe?

Yes, I believe that Eurocorps and especially EU Battlegroups are really the first steps to the unified EU Army, however

Should I name this fictional European army the "Eurocorps" or give it an entirely different name and logo?

I don't think that naming this army "Eurocorps" is a good idea, since (as it was already mentioned in this topic) to my understanding it's rather a unit (much like Franco-German Brigade) than an entire armed service of a nation. So I would prefer something like "European Defence Forces" for the name. As for the emblem, Eurocorps's one will do, I believe. One can argue that the emblem of EU Military Staff is better looking - I do agree, but a.) it's a matter of taste b.) as far as I understand heraldry, it's supposed to symbolize a control over all three main branches of an army, while Eurocorps emblem have 10 (should be 12) stars in circle - an emblem of the EU itself - symbol of a country/formation to which this organization belongs, a sword - standard military symbol - for showing what this organization do, and a map of Europe - to show where this organization mostly operates (whom it protects) - so this emblem stands not for control but for defence, which, I think, is more suitable for an army. Now, flag patches - since they should represent a nation to which a wearer belongs, I think everyone would agree that the standard EU star circle would suffice - patch itself can be round or rectangular, like a flag, and in my opinion it should be low-visibility, for example black stars on green background for woodland and brown stars on beige background for desert uniforms.

2. Is the gear used by NATO in ArmA III just used by the USA, or is it used by NATO as a whole? I'd rather make my own, unique gear for the Europeans if I can.

I want to believe that it's USA only. I mean, they even have the USA flag patches.

3. If there were a unified European army, would it speak a multitude of languages or pick just one to avoid language confusion? If so, which language would this likely be? English?

English. A realistic choice, and it would save you a headache of recording and porting your own sound set.

4. Which camouflages (woodland, desert, urban, autumn, something to fit Altis, whatever) do you think would realistically be chosen for a unified European army? I'd like to go for something that would stand out among NATO, AAF and CSAT (so that means nothing plain, nothing digital, nothing hexagonal).

Tough choice. I, myself, would like to see them in digital, but since you said "no" to that, it leaves us with Bundeswehr "Flectarn" and French woodland, both of which don't really fit Altis, I'm afraid. So you would need to consider some less widespread patterns like Italian "Vegetata" or even some commercial camo like A-TACS.

EDIT: I've now chosen the H&K G36 instead, not the Steyr AUG.

what kind of modifications could be applied to it to make it feel more unique/futuristic? Could the ammunition/barrel be changed?

G36 is a good choice, and I would suggest you to take a look on the latest variant of it, which is included into IDkz. Changing its ammo from 5.56 to 6.5 caseless would be a logical move.

7. Would it be realistic to give the European army's optics (i.e. holographic sights, laser pointers, etc) blue colours (to fit with their theme), or is that just pure fantasy?

I believe that would be too much, like in EndWar, CoD or some Korean F2P FPS. In reality most of those optics would be red.

8. Are there currently any major defence projects being developed by European countries which could potentially, realistically, be included into this mod (gear, weapons, vehicles, anything (e.g. F-35 for the USA/UK, Future Force Warrior for the USA))?

Anything that EADS makes. Here's a good list. And here is my proposal list of vehicles and weapons that I think would be realistic for a unified EU military (I know it's kinda early to talk about vehicles, but still):

Gear and small arms:

1.) Uniform - FELIN will do;

2.) Assault rifle - same for G36;

3.) MG36 - well, on one hand it would make sense since the issued rifle is going to be G36, so it would improve unification, logistics, repairability, training times and other big words, but on the other hand, I, personally, never was a fan of LMGs made out of ARs, I've always preferred dedicated tools for dedicated roles. I would rather suggest you to consider something like MG4;

4.) Sidearm - Glock is a good choice (especially seeing how P07 still have a Glock inventory icon);

5.) Same for MP7;

6.) DSR is fine, but I don't really like bullpups so I would rather go with something like Sako TRG M10;

Ground vehicles:

1.) ATF Dingo for light armoured vehicle;

2.) Wheeled IFV - so many variants that I don't even know, from Patria AMV (just reskin Marshall and it's done) and Pandur 2 (just reskin Gorgon and it's done) to Boxer MRAV or that newest Iveco Superav;

3.) MBT - either a variant of Leopard 2 (like MBT Revolution) or Leclerk;

4.) Spz Puma for a heavy IFV with an almost tank-like protection;

5.) PzH 2000 for a SPG;

6.) For a SPAAG Flakpanzer Gepard would be an obvious choice;

Aerial vehicles:

1.) Light helicopter - EC145;

1.) Medium utility helicopter - again, too many choices - NH90 / AW101 / AW149;

2.) Attack helicopter - Eurocopter Tiger;

3.) Multirole fighter - F-35 would be a realistic choice, however Eurofighter Typhoon has more "euro" in it (yeah, that was a terrible pun);

4.) Transport plane - A400M.

Well my theory is that Finland use 7.62, cuz the most probably aggressor is Russia ( I don't see the swedes invading anyone, you know what is said in Finland about them :p ); so it would be easy to use their own magazines against them ( and cheaper ).

Yeah, good luck in finding that ammo, since nowadays it's mostly used in small quantities for training and by SOF. And it was this way for, like, forty years already.

[accapella 1]

Well, no.

You are actually wrong on all accounts of your argument. Perhaps the press or the view in Finland but most of what you said is simply not true.

To start with the easy one, the Eurocopter is produced by Eurocopter Group. Eurocopter Group is a company and therefor follows only economical reasoning. It is the result of the fusion of Aerospatioal (French) DASA (German) and a spanish company (name forgotten). Eurocopter belongs to EADS, Airbus is part of them aswell. So the hole sharing story is true to the aspect that only a huge cooperation like that can actually afford to develop a weapons system like that but it resulted out of economical reasoning and sure enough wasnt ordered by some sort of european parliament.

The reduction of military expenses can most likely also only be achieved via that route, the biggest player in the market develops something and makes it available to the other countries. But no government organisation can order that process. We are not living in Russia for that matter.

The political process you are describing is something that has been discussed for even longer than the EU's existence and to a certain degree good effects have been achieved. Like the the trade union. Others like the Europol work already but their work is very specific and is concerned with crimes that span over multiple borders. Which makes sense, because what use would an italian police man be in a dutch city? Aside from the fact that that would be illegal anyway. The common foreign policy is something that is a wishfull thinking, because as of now the EU Countries are sovereign nations with varying interests. For example France has far different ties to countries in North Africa and therefor different involvement and interests. Besides the european players are in G8 and have a seat with the UN which in terms of weight and influence is quite sufficient.

European Parliament is a structure above a structure, so everything that passes there has to pass implementation in the countries involved. A process that does not work smoothly and certainly will not get easier in the future. Since the decisions taken there have to be accepted on a national level. Now tell the french that their goose liver is not legal anymore. Get the point.

With the ongoing crisis in europe there are actually quite strong movements developing in countries like France and Germany, as a matter of fact even in Greece that are against further involvement on a european level. Specifically with regards to currency. So i would not be so optimistic about that.

EUROFOR was a RRF which is as i stated before a mission based Joined Headquater, not an Army.

Same applies to the Battlegroup concept it is quite small, 1500 units per battle groups and only 2 ready for deployment.

As a comparison the EUROKORPS has a full French and a full German Tank Division, plus 2 mechanized Brigades. Thats roughly 50.000 troops. It can be used by EU or SHAPE (NATO).

But as stated multiple times now, it is more a structural organ. The troops in those multinational units will still be soldiers from a certain country and will wear their uniform and gear.

Exceptions might be the Barrett or some sort of badge.

So wishfull thinking of United States of Europe does not necessarily make it happen and even though I have no earthly idea what the finish think about that I am very certain that countries like France and Germany will not go for it. As a matter of fact even spain and italy are highly unlikely.

eu has already taken steps towards a very state like system. europe is not there yet and eu might not get there but you can hardly say EVERY point of his is wrong based on the counterargument of the simple existence of eurocriticality. only time will tell the truth.

let's not debate about eu in a thread about a fictional mod. eu has many benefits, especially economical and the highest leadership is still under control of elected national leaders and there are people who don't like eu but please this is past the point of this thread.

tl;dr: shut up nerd youre in a mod thread

Edited September 17, 2013 by Helari

[jagdtiger74 10]

He said "is" and that is something completely different than saying might be, can be, should be or whatever.

Besides the original reasoning behind the whole discussion was to make clear to the OP that his fictional EU Army will be very diversified. All eurocrats already have come to the conclusion that whatever structure the EU will have in

future, it will not replace national identity and thoughts. Therefor Camopatterns, Weapons of choice and so on might still be different because on lower level of military planning it does not play such a vital role. Important is that the HQ structure is capable of conduction joint operations. Which for example leads to communications systems that have to work for all parties involved. From another angle a lot of countries do not have the financial means to throw their equipment over board and simply buy new stuff.

With regards to the mod, cool idea but keep it diversified because that is what Europe is.

and you little *** why do you even post here without having anything to contribute?

[topas 1]

Cool idea with a nice backstory in the OP and I continue to read the news on this project with interest.

However;

If you'd want to do some enemies for them, you could do these who are supposed to be influenced by Russia:

(...)

Poland

(...)

Hmm... I'm completely not happy with this strange choice. Of course it's political fiction, but I'd rather have this based on some contemporary facts, being: as of 2004 we're part of the EU and a NATO member since 1997. Also contributor to the Eurocorps since 2003 and the framework country (OHQ/FHQ) for Battlegroup I-2010.

There is also one major reason against the idea - a rather strong and long lasting anti-Russian sentiment among my countrymen that's grounded in a long history of military and political conflicts with Russia, spanning for hundreds of years all the way back to the Middle Ages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland%E2%80%93Russia_relations

I still may be understanding 'influence' wrong here, but if this was not forced upon Poland (like 1945-1989), which in the NATO-absent Europe of 2035 was unable to resist and forced to bend under the Russian influence, I hardly think it's a realistic option.

If you're open to suggestions and ideas / criticism; I thank you in advance for considering this.

:)

Edited September 17, 2013 by topas

[mistyronin 1181]

You are actually wrong on all accounts of your argument. Perhaps the press or the view in Finland but most of what you said is simply not true.

Uhm, interesting, I've already said before that though I've been living in Finland for a year but I'm from another EU country almost on the other side of the continent; where they think the same.

the Eurocopter is produced by Eurocopter Group

No one said otherwise. That's why I specified Eurocopter Tiger. Which had been made with a joint cooperation from different EU countries.

All the rest of your answer is the argumentation of a Euroscepticism. Though it's ok, in this post we are talking about a future assumption where would exist some kind of common army ( that I proved through some articles that is not only a "dream" but something it has been worked on ).

Returning to my previous conclusion, that you seem to have missed:

So it's not a crazy prediction, than in a close future, there may be a full fledged common army ( maybe as a only force, or in conjunction with each country's army ).

NOTE: Would be nice if you write with paragraphs, it's really hard for me to read a full block of text.

[jinzor 31]

Right now, people are using A2 tools with great results, though at some point in the future there should be a release of new tools. But right now everyone is using O2 to model, which btw has more tutorials.

My suggestion is to start first with the AAF soldiers retexturing their camo ( here you have a tutorial ) and maybe some vehicle retexture. Then create the futuristic G36A2, and after it going bigger ( here you have how to create an addon from scratch ).

Anything you do with A2 tools you would be able to use it if they release new tools.

Awesome, thanks for the links. Gonna go and study O2 and the other engines intensely these next few days since I want to start modelling ASAP.

That's a very interesting idea, Jinzor, and I myself have pondered a few times about how a unified military of a European Union (as a single country, or a confederation, or a federation - you got my point) would look like. Unfortunately, I don't have neither time nor skill to help creating actual assets, so I will try to help in my usual way - by writing a long post that no one will read anyway.

*snip*

Whoa thanks for all that info, that's some really useful stuff and appreciate the time you took writing it. The flag patch (EU star circle) is a good idea as well. When I come around to retexturing the AAF clothes layer (I plan on keeping that model for the EU faction with my own texture (save me time), but the helmet and vest (and maybe backpack, but that's low priority; there are loads of backpacks available) will have custom models) I'll definitely add that in.

You're right about the MG36, but I wasn't thinking of making it the main HMG as you said; I left out the HMG as I was still thinking which one should be used. MG4 could be good a good choice for that role.

Also, the list of stuff you provided for vehicles and such is great (of course, I need to do the units/weapons first). When I eventually do get around doing vehicles, I'll definitely be looking at this list (the Revolution just screams ArmA III, very fitting. Same with the Dingo as the MRAP. Don't know about the F-35 (I mean, it does make sense, but we've all seen the F-35 before and I'd go for something... like your pun... more "Euro" *cringe*)).

Edited September 17, 2013 by Jinzor

[mistyronin 1181]

First just point out that I agree with all the equipment Corvinus suggested, wise choice. For the jet I think the eurofighter may fit better as its a common project. But if BI include the F35 in vanilla, a fast reskin would hurt noone.

The EU flag patch with the star circle seams also a cool idea, in fact some EU missions have already wear it.

[zervostyrd 10]

Gear and small arms:

this is a can of worms worthy of it's label. The only thing I will state is that, many EU countries uses a variation of the FN minimi and the FN MAG. Might be a bit boring choices though.

Ground vehicles:

1.) ATF Dingo for light armoured vehicle; -Sure whatever. Really this thing with jeeps is that everyone seems to have one they made themselves (not that suprising considering that jeeps aren't that complicated) BUT there are soo many different jeeps, Author should IMO just go for the most convinient and easily made/avaible.

2.) Wheeled IFV - so many variants that I don't even know, from Patria AMV (just reskin Marshall and it's done) and Pandur 2 (just reskin Gorgon and it's done) to Boxer MRAV or that newest Iveco Superav; -PANDUR and Patria AMV are strongest contestors. There is also the VCBI

3.) MBT - either a variant of Leopard 2 (like MBT Revolution) or Leclerk; Leopard 2 is now the western people's MBT! IMO the latest German variant is most suited.

4.) Spz Puma for a heavy IFV with an almost tank-like protection; Or CV90, the PUMA are so far only ordered by Germany IIRC. Besides there's the Warrior, Marder 1A(5?), and M113 IFV variants (although last metnioned are IMO redudant) Though imo your list is too much Germany and I'd like to go with more France/UK and a little bit of sweden. Poland are also good but they are a bit to "easetern designs" as of now same goes for the Czech as well as the Slovak republics..

5.) PzH 2000 for a SPG; Or AS90,ARCHER,AUF 1,Zuzanna/DANA (IMO very interesting as it's a non-USSR development even though it's originally a PACT vehicle), CAESAR whatever... IMO I'd go for the DANA/Zuzanna not only because they look awsome, also so that the former PACT nations gets some "recognition" while still maintaining only produced and designed in Europe mentallity.

6.) For a SPAAG Flakpanzer Gepard would be an obvious choice;

Aerial vehicles:

1.) Light helicopter - EC145;

1.) Medium utility helicopter - again, too many choices - NH90 / AW101 / AW149;

2.) Attack helicopter - Eurocopter Tiger; or Augusta Mangusta but hey Eurocopter has "Euro" in it's name :p

3.) Multirole fighter - F-35 would be a realistic choice, however Eurofighter Typhoon has more "euro" in it (yeah, that was a terrible pun); I genuinly hope that as many nations as possible get of that F35 shipwreck. And I certainly don't wanna see it in a Euroforces mod. Eurofighter and Rafael is realistic with the Gripen on their tails..

4.) Transport plane - A400M. Ya rather than some 'Murican stuff :)

Yeah, good luck in finding that ammo, since nowadays it's mostly used in small quantities for training and by SOF. And it was this way for, like, forty years already.

7.62x39 are still employed widely across the globe, easy enough to find if the Finns are low on it. Besides Russia aren't considered the same threat to northern (or main land) Europe anymore. Not that I'd sell out all defence material á'la Sweden anyway for that reason... With the situation in and around the North pole I'd rather be safe and paranoid á'la Sweden and Finland during CW then being sorry, lazy and wake up Waaaaay to late (á'la Sweden WW1 AND WW2) :p

[slatts 1978]

for uniforms I'd actually go with a few different patterns. The main ones being UK MTP, French CE and German flecktarn. All with a EU military patch. (the RU has done it for you :p http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Coat_of_arms_of_the_European_Union_Military_Staff.svg)

[Corvinus 35]

Or CV90, the PUMA are so far only ordered by Germany IIRC. Besides there's the Warrior, Marder 1A(5?), and M113 IFV variants

I mentioned "almost tank-like protection" not without an intent. Puma and CV90 can serve as an analogue of Kamysh and Panther - non-amphibious, slower than a wheeled IFV but with better protection. If a more lightweight vehicle would be chosen for the tracked IFV role, than we would face a problem where this vehicle and a wheeled IFV won't have much difference in gameplay (transporting 8 soldiers and shooting from 30-40 mm gun), they would just double each other functions while differ only in visuals.

Though imo your list is too much Germany

Mea culpa.

Poland are also good but they are a bit to "easetern designs" as of now

Seeing their newest prototypes such as Anders or "PL-01" ("Rydwan" project, IIRC) I have to disagree. Can't see anything "eastern" there.

Or AS90,ARCHER,AUF 1,Zuzanna/DANA ... CAESAR whatever

Just as you said: "everyone seems to have one they made themselves". Dana would be an interesting choice indeed, but also it would be an anachronistic choice given that this mod is aimed at depicting 2035.

[zervostyrd 10]

I mentioned "almost tank-like protection" not without an intent. Puma and CV90 can serve as an analogue of Kamysh and Panther - non-amphibious, slower than a wheeled IFV but with better protection. If a more lightweight vehicle would be chosen for the tracked IFV role, than we would face a problem where this vehicle and a wheeled IFV won't have much difference in gameplay (transporting 8 soldiers and shooting from 30-40 mm gun), they would just double each other functions while differ only in visuals.

Fair enough, For the record, I think that both the CV90, Puma and Anders are the most likley candidates due to modularity. Something countries today seems to be very interested in...

Seeing their newest prototypes such as Anders or "PL-01" ("Rydwan" project, IIRC) I have to disagree. Can't see anything "eastern" there.

Yeah thanks for the Anders pic! Anyway I did say "as of now". I'm aware that they are leaning more towards the "west" in more recent projects. But those are still in concept studys or prototypes. Not something the Polish army have accepted for service IIRC.. As of today they rely on (often heavily) mordernized Soviet era systems and imports from NATO as well as Finland. Nothing wrong with it, but the mordernized soviet systems aren't Europy enough IMO :p and the NATO&EU imported stuff (even modified stuff like the Rosomak) are still IMO better represented as the country of origins version.

On note about Poland though, that W-3 Sokól (So-cool?:cool:) Would be nice as a "utilty helicopter á'la the KA 60" or something. Besides it's quite modular and you could have it as an Attack version too :p

Just as you said: "everyone seems to have one they made themselves". Dana would be an interesting choice indeed, but also it would be an anachronistic choice given that this mod is aimed at depicting 2035.

Yeah.. On the other hand, What modern vehicles that are in concept or in service today will still be around in 20 years? It's still quite a modern system, the only real break through made after their inclusion are more advanced Fire control systems, something that I can't imagine is such a terrible thing to retrofit such components. Other than that, the Zuzanna 2 (featuring improved Fire control systems and a NATO caliber cannon) didn't pass Slovakian army trials until 2009. They probably plan to keep them in service at least until the 2020s.