31st Normandy Mod: World War II for ArmA3

[EHolz 14]

Just now, rip31st said:

Iron cross solves that problem.

You mean the "Balkenkreuz" the offical insignia of the Wehrmacht?

[rip31st 98]

5 minutes ago, EHolz said:

You mean the "Balkenkreuz" the offical insignia of the Wehrmacht?

Wermacht,  Iron cross yes.  It'll be different for Kreigsmarine and Luftwaffe.  Just depends on the branch or what you spawn.  

Squads got their tags and stuff which in theory could be placed on a uni or vehicle.   Or could be based on historical units what appears on a unit with exceptions to banned items.

[Zhivets 2392]

The laws in Germany are quite silly, but I'm fairly sure I've heard someone say that it's okay if you use swastikas in your game or movie as long as it's within a historical context. Is that true?

 

Surely the German government can't really do anything to you legally if you live in America, as your forum location says? Lennard released an SS mod on the Steam workshop with SS runes and swastikas visible and I don't think the mod has been blocked in Germany. GEIST mod also has Allgemeine SS units with swastika armbands.

[rip31st 98]

25 minutes ago, Zhivets said:

The laws in Germany are quite silly, but I'm fairly sure I've heard someone say that it's okay if you use swastikas in your game or movie as long as it's within a historical context. Is that true?

 

Surely the German government can't really do anything to you legally if you live in America, as your forum location says? Lennard released an SS mod on the Steam workshop with SS runes and swastikas visible and I don't think the mod has been blocked in Germany. GEIST mod also has Allgemeine SS units with swastika armbands.

However silly it may seem you can be brought before a foreign court so long as the country you've broken a law in has an agreement with the United States which it does and the offense is as serious as violating the sovereignty of a nation post war/post Nazi ism.  Not so silly.  Not worth it, even remotely.

 

I recall the instance. The German law clearly states the symbol(s) may not be domestically distributed via any format of media as cited by a lawyer representing an Internet Cafe where certain members were offended by viewing a swastika on the tail of a Ju-52 I distributed as the member flew it in third person.   That includes any data from any computer disk or transmitted via the net.  The threat came after I replied saying go ahead and file suit and the response was they were going to issue a subpoena within a timeframe to substantiate how many PC's relative to Germany the material was distributed to or downloads.  I asked my lawyer at that point.  And he advised me to quickly update the files to remove any swastikas.  Once I replied and was in compliance to the German law the complaint was dropped.

 

Now who's to say what others do with that or where they're from and how the law applies to them.  If they're able to get away with that,  then that's relative to them.  Not me.

 

I asked the German lawyer what about people that March in the street there waving Nazi flags or symbols if they want during protests and he said the constitution protects them.  You just can't distribute them.  

 

So not worth risking hanging out in Germany 3 years behind metal bars in my opinion.   However silly that might seem.

[Zhivets 2392]

22 minutes ago, rip31st said:

However silly it may seem you can be brought before a foreign court so long as the country you've broken a law in has an agreement with the United States which it does and the offense is as serious as violating the sovereignty of a nation post war/post Nazi ism.  Not so silly.  Not worth it, even remotely.

 

I recall the instance. The German law clearly states the symbol(s) may not be domestically distributed via any format of media as cited by a lawyer representing an Internet Cafe where certain members were offended by viewing a swastika on the tail of a Ju-52 I distributed as the member flew it in third person.   That includes any data from any computer disk or transmitted via the net.  The threat came after I replied saying go ahead and file suit and the response was they were going to issue a subpoena within a timeframe to substantiate how many PC's relative to Germany the material was distributed to or downloads.  I asked my lawyer at that point.  And he advised me to quickly update the files to remove any swastikas.  Once I replied and was in compliance to the German law the complaint was dropped.

 

Now who's to say what others do with that or where they're from and how the law applies to them.  If they're able to get away with that,  then that's relative to them.  Not me.

 

I asked the German lawyer what about people that March in the street there waving Nazi flags or symbols if they want during protests and he said the constitution protects them.  You just can't distribute them.  

 

So not worth risking hanging out in Germany 3 years behind metal bars in my opinion.   However silly that might seem.

Okay, thank you for explaining.

 

It disgusts me that you can be taken to another country and jailed just because a symbol you display in a mod within a historical context is banned in that country, but is legal to display within your own. But it disgusts me even more that someone would try and make a big legal issue with you out of the presence of a swastika on a virtual plane.

[Chaingunfighter 103]

8 hours ago, Zhivets said:

Okay, thank you for explaining.

 

It disgusts me that you can be taken to another country and jailed just because a symbol you display in a mod within a historical context is banned in that country, but is legal to display within your own. But it disgusts me even more that someone would try and make a big legal issue with you out of the presence of a swastika on a virtual plane.

 

There are a lot of technicalities and obscurities in both the US and legal code that would make actually jailing him for this very unlikely as long as he attended court, and even if he didn't the current US-Germany extradition treaties typically only encompass criminal activities that are outlawed in both nations. That's not to mention that rip31st is a US citizen that "committed the crime" in question inside the US, which further complicates the process because (usually) he would have to be a German citizen or have committed the crime inside Germany for it to be a definitive case for extradition. Then there is also the liability factor that comes associated with the damning part "produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad", as uploading it to a generic download site that users from many nations, Germany included, does not necessarily give them what they need to convict.

 

But either way it would've turned into a needlessly drawn-out and messy legal process that ultimately would've done no good and probably ended up the same (with the download and/or swastikas removed.) Still, it's important to remember the distinction between how the law is written on paper and how it is used in practice. There's a good reason you never hear about Americans making WW2 mods who end up jailed in Germany.

[rip31st 98]

12 hours ago, Chaingunfighter said:

 

There are a lot of technicalities and obscurities in both the US and legal code that would make actually jailing him for this very unlikely as long as he attended court, and even if he didn't the current US-Germany extradition treaties typically only encompass criminal activities that are outlawed in both nations. That's not to mention that rip31st is a US citizen that "committed the crime" in question inside the US, which further complicates the process because (usually) he would have to be a German citizen or have committed the crime inside Germany for it to be a definitive case for extradition. Then there is also the liability factor that comes associated with the damning part "produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad", as uploading it to a generic download site that users from many nations, Germany included, does not necessarily give them what they need to convict.

 

But either way it would've turned into a needlessly drawn-out and messy legal process that ultimately would've done no good and probably ended up the same (with the download and/or swastikas removed.) Still, it's important to remember the distinction between how the law is written on paper and how it is used in practice. There's a good reason you never hear about Americans making WW2 mods who end up jailed in Germany.

They say "Good lawyers know the law.  Great lawyers know the judge."  Apparently some lawyer thought it might be worth the effort to take me to task.

 

Not worth the risk or the hassle, especially when it's a quick fix.

[Chaingunfighter 103]

36 minutes ago, rip31st said:

They say "Good lawyers know the law.  Great lawyers know the judge."  Apparently some lawyer thought it might be worth the effort to take me to task.

 

Not worth the risk or the hassle, especially when it's a quick fix.

 

If it was a lawyer representing the coffee shop then it's probably just to save their own ass, because liability law in these cases is hard to determine (what if the government decided to punish the coffee shop for "allowing the distribution of prohibited materials"?)

 

Anyways this is mostly off-topic and has already been settled, so I'll save the mods trouble and drop the discussion here. What matters is everything worked out fine.

[rip31st 98]

Most likely a pc move.  It's all good.

 

Some WIP pic's of L'Eglise st. Andre de Vierville.   It'll be a sniper's dream come true!

 

[Zhivets 2392]

Looking good. 

[whoisdani18 1]

 

This mod is still alive?

 

[R0adki11 3949]

1 hour ago, whoisdani18 said:

 

This mod is still alive?

 

Your previous post made yesterday was deleted as it broke forum rules. Please don't ask for updates as its against the forum rules. I am sure the author will post news when there is new news and not before. Please remember addon making is hobby, other things do have take priority sometimes 

[rip31st 98]

Yes.  Sorry I don't visit often enough.  Yes still WIP.

[rocket man 31]

11 minutes ago, rip31st said:

Yes.  Sorry I don't visit often enough.  Yes still WIP.

 

better late than never, glad to see you're still alive lol 

[Tyl3r99 41]

phewww i thought it died i was going to cry 

 

[rip31st 98]

Glad you didn't have to buy Kleenex!  I do work on it often plugging away at all the details.  It's a lot!

[Fire Goddess Athena 36]

i really love this, i do hope we'll see this down the line!

[rip31st 98]

You will!  Still working on a lot of highly detailed map objects.  

[Cappareli 1]

Are you planning on adding of the US Tank Destroyers? If not you should seriously consider! It would be a huge hit with the community, a lot of us are looking for the M10, M18 or M36 Jackson! Either way eager to see what you have.

[Tyl3r99 41]

can we have the map in a seperate download :P

[warflak 18]

Two years he hasn't been here. I actually got back into Arma 2 and made a version of the city of St. Malo without port facilities (can't find em plus lazy) His A2 map was great but that major city was little more than a tiny ville. Now it's a veritable central sector. I would like to find a way to modify it so I could place the objects better because it's really copy-paste rn and then maybe make it a part of the official thing but idk. It's literally just a template now.

[R0adki11 3949]

Closing as the author last visited the forum - December 14, 2017