Weapon switching need some love

[oggoeg 3]

That sounds terrible. Since you have handled firearms, you know that you can take the same magazine on and off your weapon. No magic force is making you to take a new magazine. You just started a tactical reload when you see enemy coming around a corner, not yet looking at you, but soon will. You still have the half empty magazine in your hand 5cm away from the weapon.

You'd just put your damn magazine back to your weapon.

[mistyronin 1181]

I think the percentage based system dependent on unit is a bit too roleplayish. I have no problems with weapon switching currently to be brutally honest.

Yeah so do I, I've never been killed while reloading unless I was playing in Rambo mode ( and I have played from ofp to a2 ).

But if they really need an option that would encourage rambo mode, it should be somehow limited.

[oggoeg 3]

There's nothing that should encourage rambo mode. Everything has a downside.

Both of you. Open Editor, place AT unit. Switch to AT, switch to binocular, switch to primary.

Edited September 3, 2013 by oggoeg

[mistyronin 1181]

There's nothing that should encourage rambo mode. Everything has a downside.

Both of you. Open Editor, place AT unit. Switch to AT, switch to binocular, switch to primary.

I've done that and its perfectly ok. Obviously while you switch weapons you are vulnerable, but that's why you have to analyze the situation before putting yourself in danger.

Right now, if you by chance shoot all your rounds and you are in the open you can switch to your handgun.

But who in his healthy mind would start to change mags in the open? It just doesn't make any sense.

Just think before act. And if you don't, face the consequences.

[oggoeg 3]

Et ole testannut, älä helvetti valehtele! Siinä ei ole mikään ookoo.

Nobody said anything about standing on open fields switching weapons or reloading, btw, atm you can do full sprint while reloading, isn't that rambo? At the open is not the place to be anyway.

E: Ja nyt menet ja testaat nii tajuat mistä puhutaan.

[mistyronin 1181]

Et ole testannut, älä helvetti valehtele! Siinä ei ole mikään ookoo.

Nobody said anything about standing on open fields switching weapons or reloading, btw, atm you can do full sprint while reloading, isn't that rambo? At the open is not the place to be anyway.

E: Ja nyt menet ja testaat nii tajuat mistä puhutaan.

I have tried three more times ( even changin' the order ), just in case I've missed something, and keeps working. And no, I didn't lie.

And yeah you are right, you shouldn't be able to reload while sprinting.

But I still don't get your point. In the first post you were complaining about the impossibility to cancel reload and switch weapon. Which I have answered before. To me as it is, it's perfect.

[oggoeg 3]

Did you remember to add binoculars to the unit? If you do it in this order, you wont be liking what you see.

I see you don't get the point at all.

You don't have any choises that you would actually have in various situations that relate to, weapon switching, reloading etc.

Step by step guide how to die a little from the inside.

-Place unit in editor that has primary weapon, binoculars or rangefinder and a launcher

-Switch your primary weapon to your launcher

-Select binoculars

-Switch back to primary

"It's perfect", It sucks man.

Edited September 3, 2013 by oggoeg

[4 IN 1 0]

Again it is due to some engine limit that I don't know why still exist, I also don't know why BI haven't think of that in the first place, or why they haven't do anything about it knowing that will be a problem, but it is just absolutely pain in the ass.

And for people who saying "Oh you should runs into cover first blah blah blah", I can already hear Travis Haley and Chris Costa yelling "TRANSITION!TRANSITION!" at your ears.

[oggoeg 3]

Again it is due to some engine limit that I don't know why still exist, I also don't know why BI haven't think of that in the first place, or why they haven't do anything about it knowing that will be a problem, but it is just absolutely pain in the ass.

And for people who saying "Oh you should runs into cover first blah blah blah", I can already hear Travis Haley and Chris Costa yelling "TRANSITION!TRANSITION!" at your ears.

It boggles my mind how they overlooked the very basic stuff in the first place and now it's like impossible to fix.

My head hurts and I can't undrestand that people played so long OFP and Arma they started to think scroll menus, and stopping while switching and all that is fine as is. Even though these are one of the wost gameplay killers in the whole series.

[mistyronin 1181]

Did you remember to add binoculars to the unit? If you do it in this order, you wont be liking what you see.

I see you don't get the point at all.

You don't have any choises that you would actually have in various situations that relate to, weapon switching, reloading etc.

Well, instead of adding the bins, I've just killed a squad leader and stole the corpse xD But I guess that shouldn't change the point.

The only "weird" thing that I have seen is that sometimes it glitches a bit while changin' from bins to AT, but if you click the left button it works. Obviously that's a glitch, but nothing related to the point of the topic:

You can't switch to sidearm in the very exact time you really, really need it. Arma is the only game (I've seen) with weapons that doensn't cancel weapon reloading when switching weapon and that is in my opinion one of the biggest flaws in the infantry gameplay.

Right now if I shoot, reload and switch weapon. The animation of reloading continues ( as IMO it has to be, as if you are in the middle of the reloading you have your hands busy ), and then switch weapon ( reloaded one it's also full reloaded ). Perfectly ok to me, they could improve the drawing animation, but in gameplay it works as it should ( maybe a bit too fast ).

So unless you are reloading where you shouldn't ( in a place that someone can shoot you ), you should be fine.

[oggoeg 3]

Well, instead of adding the bins, I've just killed a squad leader and stole the corpse xD But I guess that shouldn't change the point.

The only "weird" thing that I have seen is that sometimes it glitches a bit while changin' from bins to AT, but if you click the left button it works. Obviously that's a glitch, but nothing related to the point of the topic:

Right now if I shoot, reload and switch weapon. The animation of reloading continues ( as IMO it has to be, as if you are in the middle of the reloading you have your hands busy ), and then switch weapon ( reloaded one it's also full reloaded ). Perfectly ok to me, they could improve the drawing animation, but in gameplay it works as it should ( maybe a bit too fast ).

So unless you are reloading where you shouldn't ( in a place that someone can shoot you ), you should be fine.

I should be able to revert the reload and take my sidearm if the reload has just started and it's unnecessary.

I should be able to discard the whole reload by dropping the half mag and leaving the primary empty and taking my sidearm.

We have options.

We are not forced to keep going tasks that need to be suddenly halted. Just like the healing animation can't be discarded. You just stand there while your oblivious teammate goes away and your locked into place for nothing

Even the healing could be simply stopped when you move. Anything, something nothing of this system is perfect, it's restricting and unrealistic. I don't know if it ever can be changend, but sure as hell it is not good at all.

You're messing the test up somehow.

When holding binocs, switch to primary from scroll wheel. See if it repros.

I know I could repro that shit all day long and cry watching the insanity.

Edited September 3, 2013 by oggoeg

[rye1 21]

And for people who saying "Oh you should runs into cover first blah blah blah", I can already hear Travis Haley and Chris Costa yelling "TRANSITION!TRANSITION!" at your ears.

Got to love paper-target theory.

How would the Haley/Costa fan base do it? Super-cool drop-leg holster, bring it up to their chest, push it out? Super-awesome mid-ride holster, snap it to the chest, flick it out?

[mistyronin 1181]

I should be able to revert the reload and take my sidearm if the reload has just started and it's unnecessary.

I should be able to discard the whole reload by dropping the half mag and leaving the primary empty and taking my sidearm.

Maybe I'm weird, but to me in training conditions it's fast to finish the reload once I've already started than change to my sidearm ( in real life I mean ). Under stress it's even more exaggerated. It would be nice to know other opinions about people who also had been in the army.

The only point when would make sense to draw the secondary weapon, is if your main is empty but you haven't started to reload. Which can be done already.

And if while I'm reloading, suddenly my cover gets compromised I'd just try to throw myself aside or run to another cover. I would never keep myself in enemy sight if I'm managing weapons and unable to fire ( it's just and invitation to get shoot at ).

[oggoeg 3]

Maybe I'm weird, but to me in training conditions it's fast to finish the reload once I've already started than change to my sidearm ( in real life I mean ). Under stress it's even more exaggerated. It would be nice to know other opinions about people who also had been in the army.

The only point when would make sense to draw the secondary weapon, is if your main is empty but you haven't started to reload. Which can be done already.

And if while I'm reloading, suddenly my cover gets compromised I'd just try to throw myself aside or run to another cover. I would never keep myself in enemy sight if I'm managing weapons and unable to fire ( it's just and invitation to get shoot at ).

In this game you might end up in a situation that you get compromised and cannot run for cover and you have a belt fed machine gun completely empty, middle of the reload you suddenly need to engage. There is nothing to do, even if you had time to draw your sidearm.

E. In other words. We have no last resort

[mistyronin 1181]

In this game you might end up in a situation that you get compromised and cannot run for cover and you have a belt fed machine gun completely empty, middle of the reload you suddenly need to engage. There is nothing to do, even if you had time to draw your sidearm.

E. In other words. We have no last resort

That also happens in real life, and it's called being screwed up. As in real life the only thing you can do is just hope that the enemies will miss you, pray, surrender, or die. Well if it's a weapon that takes really long to reload, you can throw it to the enemy to gain a few seconds to draw a secondary weapon if you have it or run ( but though it would be sweet, I don't expect BI to include that ).

Thankfully this is a game and the consequences are not dramatic. You may want to analyze why you were caught yourself in that situation and if you could have done it differently.

In any case we are talking about a situation that if you do things right, would be really really rare to happen ( it has yet to happen to me after lots of years playing this series ).

[oggoeg 3]

The more I play the more I find some really odd stuff.

Unit has launcher, binocs, and rifle. Equip rifle -> equip binocs then switch to launcher. Oh my god, same thing if you start with sidearm and try to switch to AT from binocs..

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

That also happens in real life, and it's called being screwed up. As in real life the only thing you can do is just hope that the enemies will miss you, pray, surrender, or die. Well if it's a weapon that takes really long to reload, you can throw it to the enemy to gain a few seconds to draw a secondary weapon if you have it or run ( but though it would be sweet, I don't expect BI to include that ).

Thankfully this is a game and the consequences are not dramatic. You may want to analyze why you were caught yourself in that situation and if you could have done it differently.

In any case we are talking about a situation that if you do things right, would be really really rare to happen ( it has yet to happen to me after lots of years playing this series ).

Screwing up doensn't mean that I must die in the situation. Like I said. Even if you had plenty of preciuos seconds to discard your MG reloading and switch to sidearm, you can't

I'm going to capture video of how screwed up this game can be at some point so you can really see it.

Edited September 3, 2013 by oggoeg

[mistyronin 1181]

The more I play the more I find some really odd stuff.

Unit has launcher, binocs, and rifle. Equip rifle -> equip binocs then switch to launcher. Oh my god.

---------- Post added at 14:38 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

Screwing up doensn't mean that I must die in the situation. Like I said. Even if you had plenty of preciuos seconds to discard your MG reloading and switch to sidearm, you can't

Well in real life combat, normally when you screw things up, you tend to die or get hurt. This game aims to simulate realistic combat ( having in mind that it's still a game ). In the situation you depicted generally people don't have much options ( normally people would freeze in terror ).

In any case as I stated already once you had begin to reload is faster to finish it than to do anything else. Unless we are talking about a weapon that takes really long to reload ( an artillery piece or a HMG ), in that case the only thing you can do ( if you have enough cold blood ) would be throw the weapon and try to get to a cover position or if you even have more cold blood try to draw your handgun and fire ( though you're giving time to the enemy to shoot you ).

Anyway, don't think BI would care about such a really really rare situation.

[oggoeg 3]

We don't freeze in terror in video games. We can startle but we try to react, but the blocks it by being so clunky.

Anyway that was discussion and the game has space to improve.

Still reverting unecessary reload and or canceling unwanted actions would be gameplay improving features.

And normally when we screw things up we still can try to do at least something about it.

Main point is, weapon switching and the new clunkiness needs work. Simple. It's not finished at all.

E: IDK if animators know these bugs I can keep reproing all day and they are really bad. I'll upload a video at some point to show how bad it is.

But you will laugh at it.

Edited September 3, 2013 by oggoeg

[enex 11]

Some games have the impact that a few bullets can kill you ( a lot this last years ), but few use the smart covering. But tactical reloading it's one of the main features of OFP/Arma series. I guess that's why the military choose OFP instead of any typical arcade, and evolve it to VBS.

VBS got weapons switching on the move.I've seen it with my own eyes in trailer.I tried to found it but no luck.But I know it's there.

As I stated before if someone can kill you while you are reloading, it's entirely your fault ( it's the equivalent to put your king in a bad position in chess ). It's part of the game.

I agree but if you are locked in reloading and unable to move this is game flaw not yours.You don't see in real life being immobile if you got target few meter away and you wanna switch weapon on the move.

And it got nothing to do where you reload, you can be in cover or without, in urban environment everything can happen that's why 360 security plays big part of it.

[oggoeg 3]

VBS got weapons switching on the move.I've seen it with my own eyes in trailer.I tried to found it but no luck.But I know it's there.

I agree but if you are locked in reloading and unable to move this is game flaw not yours.You don't see in real life being immobile if you got target few meter away and you wanna switch weapon on the move.

And it got nothing to do where you reload, you can be in cover or without, in urban environment everything can happen that's why 360 security plays big part of it.

This. Game has flaws not the player necessarily. It's not intuitive at all.

[mistyronin 1181]

I agree but if you are locked in reloading and unable to move this is game flaw not yours.You don't see in real life being immobile if you got target few meter away and you wanna switch weapon on the move.

We are talkin' about that you can't switch weapons while you are reloading. Of course in the game you can move while you reload, unless you are using AT weapons, which require to be stand by while you reload ( but in that case in real life you would throw the weapon, and move, though as I already said too it'd be a bit difficult to add in game ).

[oggoeg 3]

We are talkin' about that you can't switch weapons while you are reloading. Of course in the game you can move while you reload, unless you are using AT weapons, which require to be stand by while you reload ( but in that case in real life you would throw the weapon, and move, though as I already said too it'd be a bit difficult to add in game ).

But the game could let you discard the stationary animation that you started. In the sense of "Aw, hell no wrong selection on scroll wheel menu, guess I'm going to stand here and reload this AT against my will".

[mistyronin 1181]

But the game could let you discard the stationary animation that you started. In the sense of "Aw, hell no wrong selection on scroll wheel menu, guess I'm going to stand here and reload this AT against my will".

Would be nice, but I don't think that BI is gonna change such a really rare case having so many other basic things to do. Maybe in a future patch... Who knows.

Right now the only thing you can do it's to make sure you are in a safe spot before proceeding any dangerous action that can't be stopped.

[oggoeg 3]

Would be nice, but I don't think that BI is gonna change such a really rare case having so many other basic things to do. Maybe in a future patch... Who knows.

Right now the only thing you can do it's to make sure you are in a safe spot before proceeding any dangerous action that can't be stopped.

The game is now more inf centric and has new animation system and skeleton that are new features, but not finished at all. Do you really think the would drop priority of one of the newest key features and not finish it?

That would be one the worst decisions to make.

E. I don't mean just the AT clunkiness, I mean the whole thing.

[mistyronin 1181]

The game is now more inf centric and has new animation system and skeleton that are new features, but not finished at all. Do you really think the would drop priority of one of the newest key features and not finish it?

That would be one the worst decisions to make.

I do believe that infantry is good as it is right now ( I think most of people do ), that doesn't mean that some things don't require some polish. But for a normal play it's fine as it is.

But right now I think there are more important things to solve: Campaign, driving AI, more ships / planes, chopper controls, deploy bipod, performance, etc. ( just read the forums )