Not enough rag doll with frag grenades?

[bravo93 37]

^The M203s' look great but when it comes to hand grenades I'm wondering if they should throw people around a little more. The thought of throwing a grenade into a building and seeing a poor guy inside fly through the window just turns me on. This might not be realistic but would look AWESOME. Actually I'm surprised someone hasn't had a go at making a mod adjusting the physics on different things. I imagine something like a shotgun or a 50 cal would have enough power to blow someone clean off their feet. Or maybe that only happens in the movies :D Actually another thing I noticed was there wasn't many flying bodies after a mortar strike and i believe they're using 81mm high explosive?

[pettka 694]

^The M203s' look great but when it comes to hand grenades I'm wondering if they should throw people around a little more. The thought of throwing a grenade into a building and seeing a poor guy inside fly through the window just turns me on. This might not be realistic but would look AWESOME. Actually I'm surprised someone hasn't had a go at making a mod adjusting the physics on different things. I imagine something like a shotgun or a 50 cal would have enough power to blow someone clean off their feet. Or maybe that only happens in the movies :D Actually another thing I noticed was there wasn't many flying bodies after a mortar strike and i believe they're using 81mm high explosive?

It mostly happens in movies :icon_twisted:

[fragmachine 12]

It mostly happens in movies :icon_twisted:

Funny that grenades does not posses such power to knock out of feets the enemy (shrapnels do the work) but artillery round would be enought to throw bodies 5-6 meters up (only, if it wouldn't turn the body into pieces - then poor soldier would had to be buried in Atsiki, Myrina and couple other places).

[old_painless 183]

I would think the mortar effect is not movies only

Cheers, OP

[RushHour 11]

The shockwave will tear your body to pieces rather then send all of you 5m to another location.

[sqb-sma 66]

Funny that grenades does not posses such power to knock out of feets the enemy (shrapnels do the work) but artillery round would be enought to throw bodies 5-6 meters up (only, if it wouldn't turn the body into pieces - then poor soldier would had to be buried in Atsiki, Myrina and couple other places).

Bodies are often sturdier than most things around them during explosions, more likely to stretch than break. There's videos of snipers being hit by artillery/tank shells and being flung, in one piece, probably 150m into the air.

There's also videos of roadside bombs sending people 50-100m horizontally. In fact if anything Hollywood has perpetrated the "If you're caught in an explosion you're either just pushed lightly over or there's nothing left of you to be buried" myth.

To be honest... I'm more interested in gameplay than the grisly realities of war. I'd like a full wounding system not because it's horrifying, like Red Orchestra, but because it would give the medic something to do. And knowing BIS' opposition to the game being portrayed as something of a murder simulator I don't think they'll dial in the ragdolls too much. I'd actually feel kinda sick if I saw something like the videos people link me in a game like Arma, that combination of horrible sights mixed with the immersion I feel in this game would really impact my decision to play this game for the worst. Wounding and medics I'm fine with, so long as it's in the deeper part of the uncanny valley and not too shocking/sad.

Edited August 26, 2013 by SQB-SMA

[Curry 10]

A body won't move a bit when a frag nade explodes near by. Those effects may be good for BF3 or other Action Shooters but Arma 3 is more a simulator where this effect has no place in. A shot from a handgun or rifle will also not knock you out of your shoes, that's BS too.

I could post a video where GP-25 rifle grenades explode only 1-2 feet away from Syrian fighters on open street, but that's possibly against the forum rules. But you can clearly see they only move of fright, not because of the explosion. And let me tell you, they are good at filling people with shrapnel, not really at killing them.

EDIT: Just saw your video and those ragdolls currently in ARMA 3 when infantry gets hit with M203 grenades are already very exaggerated. I hope they fix it or at least the ACE devs. I guess BI wants to attract all the kiddies that need "that" kind of action.

Bodies are often sturdier than most things around them during explosions, more likely to stretch than break. There's videos of snipers being hit by artillery/tank shells and being flung, in one piece, probably 150m into the air.

It depends from which direction the force and if channeled or not can reach the body and if the force will rip the body apart before it even starts to launch mid air. That happens mostly when explosives detonate beneath vehicles where the body stays intact to get pushed up instead of just "dissolve". Happens not very often when the force comes from the side (mortar or artillery grenades). If a tank round hits you without protection (wall, sandbags etc.) you are just not there in one piece anymore. 150m seems a bit much. In video it all seems bigger than it really is.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Curry

[Hellbeard 10]

Yeah. Probably too much ragdoll, or too little mass to the body.

I'd prefer a different system where dying isn't going instantly limp, though that does happen when the CNS is disconnected or destroyed, but rather of losing tone gradually (sometimes very quickly sometimes over a short while).

[Curry 10]

Yeah. Probably too much ragdoll, or too little mass to the body.

I'd prefer a different system where dying isn't going instantly limp, though that does happen when the CNS is disconnected or destroyed, but rather of losing tone gradually (sometimes very quickly sometimes over a short while).

A good ragdoll effect would be simply falling over or to the ground in that direction where the body points most mass to.

[scrim 1]

Amen to that Curry. I've even read of a US Army Lieutenant who was killed by a direct hit from an RPG-7 during the second battle of Fallujah, and he wasn't thrown further than off the top of the Bradley IFV he was standing on, which means he probably fell off rather than being thrown.

[Opticalsnare 12]

I wanna see bodies blown into outer space, hell my tank gets launched to mars if i hit a rock.

[Koukotsu 2]

I've watched a few real-world videos of intact bodies (mostly intact...) getting launched to the moon. (figuratively, not literally, lol.)

...but yeah, it takes a lot more than a little hand grenade or 40mm grenade/shell to make it happen.

[maturin 12]

Even the 81mm mortar explosion is just tiny pieces of frag.

Shockwave is supersonic. It rips through your bodies and does horrible things to your organs, but will leave you mostly in place.

If you're actually getting moved, it's due to blast wind, which you need a really big blast for. And for all but the heaviest artillery, blast is just a means of throwing frag around, not an end in itself.

[scrim 1]

hell my tank gets launched to mars if i hit a rock.

So, there'll be tanks in Take On Mars?

[Opticalsnare 12]

So, there'll be tanks in Take On Mars?

Hover Tanks*

[fragmachine 12]

Amen to that Curry. I've even read of a US Army Lieutenant who was killed by a direct hit from an RPG-7 during the second battle of Fallujah, and he wasn't thrown further than off the top of the Bradley IFV he was standing on, which means he probably fell off rather than being thrown.

It depends on the warhead I think. It might be penetrating warhead - not he. The target might be Bradley so it is quite possible.

Hover Tanks*

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/Battlezone_Coverart.png (140 kB)

Seriously, OpticalSnare - I hope that You look forward to work on Your awesome ArmA 3 particle Mod v2 because how it looks right now (for a 2013 game) - to put it mildly - is dissapointing.

It makes a ton of difference to play with your mod in A2 :) (btw. tried Blastcore in A3 and seems to work but with some strange bugs like chimneys of dust right behind the main dust wall) - BTW I disabled it because You might not wanted it to be used in A3.

[maturin 12]

It depends on the warhead I think. It might be penetrating warhead - not he. The target might be Bradley so it is quite possible.

The RPG doesn't have an 'HE' warhead.

Both AT and anti-personnel RPG-7 warheads contain HE. The latter version (OG-7) actually carries much less explosive, and causes casualties through--once again--very small pieces of shrapnel. The blast force is negligible, and even weaker than the HEAT variants.

[spamurai 3]

Rag dolls are missing something.

Not fully sure what it is, but the end result feels like it needs a little more "salt" added into it.

The rag doll effect makes characters look like marionettes that have had their strings clipped mid dance. The bodies simply collapse into little wooden piles; limbs contorted in awkward poses.

They need at least a little bit of animation to transition from being "alive" into "dead" before the model is released to rag doll. Or a little bit of physX needs to be applied to connect the event that killed the character with it turning into a rag doll. IE: An impulse of physX applies a bit of force to push the doll as if a bullet hit it first (instead of just collapsing into a heap with the gun popping off the model).

[scrim 1]

It depends on the warhead I think. It might be penetrating warhead - not he. The target might be Bradley so it is quite possible.

What Maturin said plus: It's a rocket propelled grenade. Regardless of which sort it is, the fact that a direct hit on a human body didn't even cause it to fly a even a yard more than it actually fell of the IFV should indicate that there should be less rag doll for 40mm, not more for hand grenades.

[maturin 12]

Just a quibble- the 'grenade' term is pretty meaningless, and just a result of the Russian translation.

The warhead of the RPG is like that of any light AT rocket. No one calls LAW or AT4 warheads grenades. And they aren't.

[fragmachine 12]

The RPG doesn't have an 'HE' warhead.

Both AT and anti-personnel RPG-7 warheads contain HE. The latter version (OG-7) actually carries much less explosive, and causes casualties through--once again--very small pieces of shrapnel. The blast force is negligible, and even weaker than the HEAT variants.

I've made a mistake. Ofc I've mean HEAT warhead. And obviously RPG is not a grenade but just rather rocket launcher. It is a improper translate which is "ros. Rucznoj Protiwotankowyj Granatomiot, pol. Ręczna Przeciwczołgowa Wyrzutnia Granatów" - "Handheld-AT-Grenade Launcher.

If it is rocket-propelled grenade then it means that it is rocket with the warhead - isn't it? It is just improper translate. Rockets that usually been flying in mid XX into space didn't had any warhead. But rocket with the warhead is a wepon when there is - a warhead - and obviously the engine - which is rocket itself.

Edited August 29, 2013 by fragmachine

[maturin 12]

IIRC, technically it's not a rocket. A rocket doesn't need a tube; it just propels itself with the motor. The RPG-7 has to jump out of the tube using the small charge. Then there is a rocket motor that fires, but only for a fraction of a second, to boost it up near the speed of sound.

And AT4s and LAWs burn all their fuel in the tube, making them recoilless rifles that fire a fin-stabilized shell.

I think the grenade thing is just Russian nomenclature for the warhead.