TPW EBS: engine based suppression

[tpw 2315]

Thanks again tpw.

As I said earlier I love this so much I can definitely live with reduced explosion damage til you come up with something.

cheers

Thanks mate. I'm currently looking into deactivating the shell when a unit is within X m of an explosive device (grenade, mine, missile etc). Having some trouble because mines for instance can't be detected based on their class. Work continues...

Thanks for continuing to improve your mod tpw, after much testing with this and other AI mods I am now using this AI mod exclusively.

Thankyou. I highly recommend using TPW EBS in conjunction with Windwalking's AiCover mod, which allows units to seek cover when they hear distant and nearby gunfire/explosions/vehicles. I've worked with Windwalking to ensure that they are interoperable.

Hi, when I shoot at someone, a green pyramid appears for a few seconds above him. Is it the tpw addon?

EDIT: Nevermind, it was because of "tpw_ebs_debug = 1", tpw pls don't forget to turn that off before distribution :D It's set to 1 in v1.03

Thanks for the heads up. I have changed it!

Hi TPW. Mines doesn't work with your mod. If you shoot at them yes, but if you step over them, they doesn't explode. Well done anyway. Another thing is how compatible is this mod with Zooloo's mod, fire-fight improvement system? Thanks a lot.

EDIT: They explode but doesn't hurt you. Sorry.

I just tested it out and in fact mines don't seem to be triggered regardless of whether TPW EBS is active or not. With TPW_EBS active, if you stand near a mine and shoot it, you will take explosion damage.

I'm not sure about FFIS. Zooloo75 mentions that it has suppression, but I can't examine his code to see how it's implemented and how it might conflict.

[grillob3 11]

tpw

Thanks for the answer! i only have been playing alone (SP) but on a Dedicated server on the same machine as the game so i can have bigger missions (like A3 MSO and some of my own missions) and better performance! Because DS takes the ai and then i have game and server using more cpu cores=better performance! Thats why i wanna a MP TPW EBS or a A3 TPWCAS!

Big thanks anyway! And good work! ;)

[tpw 2315]

tpw

Thanks for the answer! i only have been playing alone (SP) but on a Dedicated server on the same machine as the game so i can have bigger missions (like A3 MSO and some of my own missions) and better performance! Because DS takes the ai and then i have game and server using more cpu cores=better performance! Thats why i wanna a MP TPW EBS or a A3 TPWCAS!

Big thanks anyway! And good work! ;)

Well if you'd like to contribute to the cause and try TPW EBS on your server on the off chance that hitparts works properly now in MP....

[jtgibson 18]

I've been considering the one problem with this, which is "ineffective fire". If someone is far enough away that their bullets are passing near you but there is minimal or no chance in heck that they would actually hit you, you will still be suppressed under this system. On the other hand, from my experiences in multiplayer, once you start to realise that the fire is ineffective, it stops suppressing you and you gain confidence.

Perhaps a way to simulate this would be a boundary on suppression -- if bullets are passing near you ("you" being an AI), in addition to the normal suppression effects, the radius of the collision sphere would gradually shrink -- so that to remain 100% suppressed, the shots would actually have to be directly on the hard cover you're hiding behind: an MG gunner opening up and laying down a wall might be scary, but if none of those bullets are actually passing closer to you, after the initial shock wears off you realise that he's firing near you, not at you.

The only limitation is that it allows players to lull AI into a sense of false confidence by suppressing them directly and then suppressing them nearby, so that the collision radius shrinks and they "realise" the fire is ineffective -- and then once they pop out to retaliate, you just make the fire effective again. But that can be done already anyway, even against human players, and a full simulation of "is he still there?" is almost impossible to codify into an artificial intelligence. [edit] Thinking on it, maybe the shrinking sensitivity would be reduced by a factor of 50% each time the target is "resuppressed" -- sort of like, fool me eight or more times, shame on me, fool me seven times or less, shame on you. ;-)

Edited August 23, 2013 by jtgibson

[tpw 2315]

I've been considering the one problem with this, which is "ineffective fire". If someone is far enough away that their bullets are passing near you but there is minimal or no chance in heck that they would actually hit you, you will still be suppressed under this system. On the other hand, from my experiences in multiplayer, once you start to realise that the fire is ineffective, it stops suppressing you and you gain confidence.

Perhaps a way to simulate this would be a boundary on suppression -- if bullets are passing near you ("you" being an AI), in addition to the normal suppression effects, the radius of the collision sphere would gradually shrink -- so that to remain 100% suppressed, the shots would actually have to be directly on the hard cover you're hiding behind: an MG gunner opening up and laying down a wall might be scary, but if none of those bullets are actually passing closer to you, after the initial shock wears off you realise that he's firing near you, not at you.

The only limitation is that it allows players to lull AI into a sense of false confidence by suppressing them directly and then suppressing them nearby, so that the collision radius shrinks and they "realise" the fire is ineffective -- and then once they pop out to retaliate, you just make the fire effective again. But that can be done already anyway, even against human players, and a full simulation of "is he still there?" is almost impossible to codify into an artificial intelligence. [edit] Thinking on it, maybe the shrinking sensitivity would be reduced by a factor of 50% each time the target is "resuppressed" -- sort of like, fool me eight or more times, shame on me, fool me seven times or less, shame on you. ;-)

Some great points there jtgibson. I can't resize the suppression shell "on the fly" any more than any other 3D object can be resized, but I could have several sized shells and switch between them according to suppression status eg

Unsuppressed unit has a 5m radius shell

Suppressed by light enemy fire, the shell is replaced by a 3m one

Suppressed by heavy enemy fire, the shell is replaced by a 2m shell

Thinking it through, this would allow the system to emulate the kind of behaviour you are referring to. The more a unit it suppressed, the more work the shooter has to do to keep them that way.

OK I'm off to O2 to try to implement this!

EDIT: Yep, definitely working. Just need to sort out some debugging

Edited August 23, 2013 by tpw

[tpw 2315]

TPW EBS v1.04: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_EBS_104.zip

Changes:

• Suppression shell shrinks as suppression state increases.
  
• Suppressed AI will not seek cover if WW AICOVER has already assigned them to do so.
  

So this is an attempt to implement jtgibson's excellent idea re effectiveness of suppression. So, an unsuppressed unit has a suppression shell of 5m radius. Under light enemy suppression it's replaced with a 3m shell. Under heavy suppression it's replaced with a 2m one (if you turn on debugging you'll see the shells shrink as they change colour). This simulates the psychology of suppression, in that a unit which has been suppressed is harder to keep suppressed. You'll need to concentrate fire more to keep the unit's head down.

[Guest]

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

TPW Engine Based Suppression [bETA] v1.04



Community Base addons A3

===================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

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[tpw 2315]

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

Legend!

[ollem 4]

Legend!

That makes 2 of you - great new release!

Thats why i wanna a MP TPW EBS or a A3 TPWCAS!

An A3 beta script version of tpwcas is available.

Due to a recent issue with setunitPos "MIDDLE" command I've postponed the TPWCAS A3 mod.

I've also looked at tpwEBS to see if I could make it port it to MP/Dedicated Server.

It's not easy but there some hacks are needed which *might* have too much impact on server or network bandwith due to network sync usage.

As soon as 48 hrs fit in a day I will test it.

[grillob3 11]

I just tested on a MP/Dedicated Server and SP. Did not see any difference! i had server and client running the mod! both sp and mp, AI was prone/crouching and shooting bad (very inaccurate for A3 super sniper style) when under fire! debug showed the colors in mp green/yellow/red! i got to do more test! And if i have time i will upload a YT video.

:)

Thanks Ollem!

Edited August 23, 2013 by Grillob3

[ollem 4]

Thanks? I'm not aware i did anything here :-)

Anyway, tpwebs simply cannot work on a dedicated server without some addittional mp based coding.

Problem is this code would ruin the clean and clever lightweigth coding which is used for this single player version.

On local hosted server it seems to work, but not if other clients connect. At least that is my preliminary coclusion.

[tpw 2315]

Thanks so much for chiming in Ollem. As far as I can tell there are a few issues that need to be resolved for MP or dedi TPW EBS:

1 - Does hitpart eventhandler now work for non local bullets? If not, then there is little point. I simply cannot test this.

2 - Some of the script stuff needs to be synchronised over the network (eg using bis_fnc_mp).

I'm not sure what needs to be synchronised (other than hideobject):

playmove?

setunitpos?

domove?

setobjecttexture?

3 - Will TPW EBS have to run on all clients (because of the custom shell object)?

I'm glad you're focussing even a small percentage of your considerable talents on this, because I have very limited MP smarts.

And on a related topic, I overcome the setunitpos "middle" bug by playmoving a weapon-appropriate kneel/crouch animation in addition to the setunitpos. e.g. For a rifle holding unit:

_unit setunitpos "middle";
_unit playmove "AmovPknlMstpSrasWrflDnon";

This makes the unit kneel without the annoying weapon lowering/raising loop.

Thanks again mate

[Takoda 10]

With this mod I've noticed an enormous improvement in the way the AI behave in buildings, before the AI would usually go prone when under fire inside buildings or stand facing toward walls like morons, now they quickly locate the direction they are being attacked from, crouching when under light fire and only going prone if under heavy fire. I love this mod.

[tpw 2315]

With this mod I've noticed an enormous improvement in the way the AI behave in buildings, before the AI would usually go prone when under fire inside buildings or stand facing toward walls like morons, now they quickly locate the direction they are being attacked from, crouching when under light fire and only going prone if under heavy fire. I love this mod.

Cheers Takoda. Keep the vids comin'!

[tpw 2315]

TPW EBS v1.05: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_EBS_105.zip

Changes:

• Suppression shell is now disabled when units are near mines and charges.
  
• Misc code improvements.
  

After much experimenting I've come to the conclusion that any object with a fire geometry LOD (for registering bullet hits), will not let explosion damage through it. Therefore I'm stuck with workarounds. Currently the suppression shell will turn off within 10m of mines and charges so that any explosion damage will be the "real thing". For grenades and other explosives, the hypothetical damage is calculated and applied. I have upped this damage slightly, so grenades should kill anyone within 10m. Please let me know if you can find any other explosive damage stuff that is suboptimal and I will try to fix it.

[mr_centipede 31]

I think the player can be suppressed by his own weapon... at least that's what I think happened to me, I fired off a few rounds, and I started to breathing heavily, increase sway etc. can anybody else confirm?

[Guest]

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

TPW Engine Based Suppression [bETA] v1.05



Community Base addons A3

===================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

[tpw 2315]

I think the player can be suppressed by his own weapon... at least that's what I think happened to me, I fired off a few rounds, and I started to breathing heavily, increase sway etc. can anybody else confirm?

Hmm, I can't say I've ever seen this. The shell doesn't react to its owner unit shooting through it. WW AICOVER applies suppression state changes when units detect gunfire, perhaps you problem lies there?

[gliptal 25]

Great Mod tpw, I'm downloading it now! I also ask permission to change the @ folder name (I have a lot of mods and keeping original folder names gets things messy)...

I think the player can be suppressed by his own weapon... at least that's what I think happened to me, I fired off a few rounds, and I started to breathing heavily, increase sway etc. can anybody else confirm?

Make sure the zoom and hold breath functions aren't binded to the same key: it took me a month to find out why I couldn't zoom without getting tired.

Yay!

[tpw 2315]

Great Mod tpw, I'm downloading it now! I also ask permission to change the @ folder name (I have a lot of mods and keeping original folder names gets things messy)...

Rename the folder to your heart's content Gliptal :) Just make sure you don't rename the TPW_EBS folder in your userconfig folder, that will cause the addon to not launch.

[gliptal 25]

Rename the folder to your heart's content Gliptal :) Just make sure you don't rename the TPW_EBS folder in your userconfig folder, that will cause the addon to not launch.

Thank you! You'll also see me in your FALL thread as soon as I finish reading through the whole thread! :D

Yay!

[Alex72 1]

Thanks for this much needed (at least for now) mod. Don't know how many times ive had myself and a bunch of AI firing onto an eAI camp and totally rain mayhem on them, and in the midst of that bullet mayhem one eAI just sits up and pops one single shot into my forehead - while im lying down behind a hill showing only...my forehead.

[tpw 2315]

eAI just sits up and pops one single shot into my forehead - while im lying down behind a hill showing only...my forehead.

Is your player character bald? Maybe the gleaming forehead attracted their attention :)

[jedimaster512 10]

Hey brother, just thought I'd give you a heads up about a potential bug if you didn't know (I admit I didn't read the whole thread to see if it had been brought up already): I am unable to have AI passengers in helicopters with this mod enabled. Any AI attempting to enter a helicopter with engines running - with a player as the pilot - cause the main rotor to be instantly destroyed.

It appears to work OK if the AI spawn inside the helicopter and don't leave and re-enter, however.

Great mod man, thanks for the work! Look forward to future versions.

Edited August 26, 2013 by jedimaster512

[tpw 2315]

Hey brother, just thought I'd give you a heads up about a potential bug if you didn't know (I admit I didn't read the whole thread to see if it had been brought up already): I am unable to have AI passengers in helicopters with this mod enabled. Any AI attempting to enter a helicopter with engines running - with a player as the pilot - cause the main rotor to be instantly destroyed.

It appears to work OK if the AI spawn inside the helicopter and don't leave and re-enter, however.

Great mod man, thanks for the work! Look forward to future versions.

Thank you very much for making this mod the subject of your first post! I did a lot of testing and thought that I'd established that AI + shell ddidn't interfere with rotors, but player + shell did. So the shell is disabled for the player near a heli. I will investigate further. Thanks again

EDIT: Did some additional testing and I can have AI get in/out of helicopters, start them up, fly them etc with no rotor damage. But just to be on the safe side, I have reintroduced the "disable shell near helicopter" functionality and it will show up in the next update.

Edited August 26, 2013 by tpw