Nice Concept, but Lack of Freedom

[EmissionGeneration 10]

I'd like to say that I absolutely love the Concept of this Game, and so far I've played 13 hours which has definitely given me my Money's worth. I understand that there will be a Hardcore Mode later on in the Game, however, there are a couple things that are a huge let down for me, so if these are on the Planning board, just disregard this whole topic.

In every Review, Let's Play, or Forum Topic I hear everyone classifying Take On Mars as a "Exploration and Science" Game, but honestly, I would have to disagree with this completely, and the 2 reasons for that is [Exploration] = Waypoints and [science] = Lack of Freedom.

Waypoints are understandable in many Games, and especially this one, however I believe they could be replaced by Co-Ordinates. This way, you are more on the Exploration side of doing Career Mode rather than following from Point [A] to Point . Although Co-Ordinates will basically be Point [A] to Point , it will add more of a challenge and the need to think and plan your Mission. However, although I don't agree with Waypoints, I can easily live with this staying in the Game.

My 2nd concern and the one that peeves me the most, and takes 100% of the excitement out, is the Lack of Freedom. We land, head to the first Mission Waypoint, and then we get told to take this exact picture, or Analyze this exact Rock to pin point positions. It gives no freedom to be my own Space Agency, and limits the excitement and long term Gameplay. I would much prefer the Mission Objective description to be more indepth of communicating what Job needs to be performed, and allow me to undertake this Task as I see fit.

So basically, instead of having those hideous looking "Science and Camera" boxes littered through the Screen, they should be completely Removed.

Photographs: Instead of having set Pictures that you NEED to take, you should be able to use your own Judgement from the Mission Description on what Pictures need to be taken, which means, if YOU see something that looks interesting, you should be able to take that Picture and it will go towards your Assignments.

Science: Again, this should be determined from your own judgement from the Mission Description, and YOU should have the ability to choose a Rock you think looks interesting to Analyze for your Assignement.

I understand that some Missions, you need to take a certain Picture, or Analyze a certain Rock, but instead of having those hideous "markers" on the ground to point it out, it should just be a simple Waypoint Marker, and with the Photo, it doesn't matter about the Angle, just as long as it's the Rock that needs to be photographed. Maybe the Quality of your Photo's could help or hinder your Income at the end.

I don't expect the DEVs to Program every single Rock and View into the Game to be able to go towards the Mission Objective, so a way around this would be [Probe the Ground within 1km (or lower depending on the Mission) of the Point of Interest Waypoint. Or Objectives that say "While on your way to the area, take photos of opportunity of as many rock formations and rockfields as possible" This should just mean, take some Photo's of your choice while traveling to your next location, which should register towards your Objective.

This will open up the Game a lot more, and increase the Replayability of it by a large amount in my opinion. A Unique and Interesting Game like this, should not have Restrictions put in place to prevent the user from making their own choices, and expanding their own income through a way they choose to run their Agency.

On a side Note, I'd like a Borderless Windowed Mode added aswell =] I cannot use Window Mode and align it correctly [always missing the bottom] with the current one.

Again though, Take On Mars is definitely a good purchase I made, and I hope more Freedom is added at a later stage to keep this Game alive for me for a long time. Good Job guys, and thanks for bringing this to us to enjoy!

Edited August 7, 2013 by EmissionGeneration

[NovaSilisko 10]

I think something that will help improve freedom a lot will be when the Analysis window functions - and you can see the results for whatever you just investigated. That alone would open up a lot of interest in doing more than just the mission objectives ("I wonder what happens if I use ChemCam on my solar panels?")

[dahunn 10]

I'd like to say that I absolutely love the Concept of this Game, and so far I've played 13 hours which has definitely given me my Money's worth. I understand that there will be a Hardcore Mode later on in the Game, however, there are a couple things that are a huge let down for me, so if these are on the Planning board, just disregard this whole topic.

In every Review, Let's Play, or Forum Topic I hear everyone classifying Take On Mars as a "Exploration and Science" Game, but honestly, I would have to disagree with this completely, and the 2 reasons for that is [Exploration] = Waypoints and [science] = Lack of Freedom.

Waypoints are understandable in many Games, and especially this one, however I believe they could be replaced by Co-Ordinates. This way, you are more on the Exploration side of doing Career Mode rather than following from Point [A] to Point . Although Co-Ordinates will basically be Point [A] to Point , it will add more of a challenge and the need to think and plan your Mission. However, although I don't agree with Waypoints, I can easily live with this staying in the Game.

My 2nd concern and the one that peeves me the most, and takes 100% of the excitement out, is the Lack of Freedom. We land, head to the first Mission Waypoint, and then we get told to take this exact picture, or Analyze this exact Rock to pin point positions. It gives no freedom to be my own Space Agency, and limits the excitement and long term Gameplay. I would much prefer the Mission Objective description to be more indepth of communicating what Job needs to be performed, and allow me to undertake this Task as I see fit.

So basically, instead of having those hideous looking "Science and Camera" boxes littered through the Screen, they should be completely Removed.

Photographs: Instead of having set Pictures that you NEED to take, you should be able to use your own Judgement from the Mission Description on what Pictures need to be taken, which means, if YOU see something that looks interesting, you should be able to take that Picture and it will go towards your Assignments.

Science: Again, this should be determined from your own judgement from the Mission Description, and YOU should have the ability to choose a Rock you think looks interesting to Analyze for your Assignement.

I understand that some Missions, you need to take a certain Picture, or Analyze a certain Rock, but instead of having those hideous "markers" on the ground to point it out, it should just be a simple Waypoint Marker, and with the Photo, it doesn't matter about the Angle, just as long as it's the Rock that needs to be photographed. Maybe the Quality of your Photo's could help or hinder your Income at the end.

I don't expect the DEVs to Program every single Rock and View into the Game to be able to go towards the Mission Objective, so a way around this would be [Probe the Ground within 1km (or lower depending on the Mission) of the Point of Interest Waypoint. Or Objectives that say "While on your way to the area, take photos of opportunity of as many rock formations and rockfields as possible" This should just mean, take some Photo's of your choice while traveling to your next location, which should register towards your Objective.

This will open up the Game a lot more, and increase the Replayability of it by a large amount in my opinion. A Unique and Interesting Game like this, should not have Restrictions put in place to prevent the user from making their own choices, and expanding their own income through a way they choose to run their Agency.

On a side Note, I'd like a Borderless Windowed Mode added aswell =] I cannot use Window Mode and align it correctly [always missing the bottom] with the current one.

Again though, Take On Mars is definitely a good purchase I made, and I hope more Freedom is added at a later stage to keep this Game alive for me for a long time. Good Job guys, and thanks for bringing this to us to enjoy!

I agree completely, Some missions are just too short. Take 2 pictures and a soil sample and that 's it...

Would be nice to set up your own sience program.

And i don't like the pop ups when you're done with one assignment. It has a console feel to it and not a sim feeling.

[EmissionGeneration 10]

And i don't like the pop ups when you're done with one assignment. It has a console feel to it and not a sim feeling.

Yeah, never though of this before, but agree'd. A new Tab could be added to the Box in the top left Corner with your Results.

[dram 14]

Interesting ideas, but you are aware you can actually take photos of anything anywhere, analyze anything anywhere and so on right? It is just that to complete a particular objective you must perform the analysis in the desired location or take a photo of a specific object.

[EmissionGeneration 10]

Interesting ideas, but you are aware you can actually take photos of anything anywhere, analyze anything anywhere and so on right? It is just that to complete a particular objective you must perform the analysis in the desired location or take a photo of a specific object.

Yeah I'm aware of that =] but my main problem is Career Mode being so restricted and doesn't actually require the Players to be their own Space Agency to earn their Profit, it just feels like the Game is on Rails which you have no Control over, and I feel opening up the Door for more Freedom to earn Rewards by your own Decisions will expand the Replayability and Interest for people to stick with it.

[dahunn 10]

it would be much more rewarding if you could direct the mission around the map for your self.

point out landing sites, and coordinates that need more examination. It would be nice to have a sort of lores map of the area taken from a satellite. then pointing out interesting features that you want to sent a rover there. Once you've send a rover, you first have to preform a systems check (which depending on difficulty setting could take a x amount of time and on hardcore mode would take several hours) In the mean time the rover could gather high res pictures of the sounding area, to be used in furure exploration which are overlayed over the lowres image of the satellite. From there you could pinpoint interesting rocks to sample, and plot your way to that rock.

once at the rock there should be a order of doing things: example once at the desired rock there should be made detailed photo's of the rock to determine a good drilling spot. Once that is done a drilling spot should be determined and the drilling commenced. And at the end a analasys should be done. (not every rock should give results or some rocks could give partial results. This gives us a reason to do exploration. Trying to find hidden scientific clues) once a clue has been found it should be presented in a scientific way, with nice pictures of some sort, and not in a annoying popup in the rover screen. Or better yet the results could be analyzed by the crew at home and after some time the results could be shown in a sort of scientific paper. Therefore not knowing whether your first dril was a good one. The same goes for photographing things.

The rover screen should be kept as clean as possible. Mission clues should be given in the control room an not on the rover screen, in my opinion. Only info about the rover and some weather data should be present.

After all it is your space program, now it seems to scripted. and everything is easy to find. It should be an exploration and a sandbox type of game.

All the scientific info about mars already discovered should be in game to be discovered in game, and maybe more could be added.

But it should not be a easy task.

---------- Post added at 11:11 ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 ----------

maybe this is to much to ask....and overly ambitious.

[anttonoo 10]

I agree that the concept is awesome and just what I've been looking for in a game for a long time. However I have some issues with the exact same thing that there's not much freedom in what you can do, you're given the rovers, the landing is automatic and you have waypoints. This is understandable since it's early access and it's a campaign mode where people try to learn the game.

1. Landing Manually It would be cool if the player could become a bit more engaged with the landing. Like maybe you could design the landing craft from the point of breaking the atmosphere, chosing between a parachute for a budget version or a skycrane for landing more precise in rougher terrain. Maybe you could even get to control the decoupling and landing stage to give the player some sense of completion and satisfaction when they manage to land that piece of metal on mars.

2. Designing the Rovers I've only played two hours and the tutorials are on their way so forgive me if I've missed something major that's already implemented. You're given the rovers and there's a ton of parts that I don't really know what they're supposed to do. Instead of giving players the rovers I suggest (once a tutorial on how to build one is done) that you give them parts and let them build the rovers and probes themselves. I think it'll be more fun and give more satisfaction for the player when completing a mission instead of just picking a pre-built rover, watching it land, take a few pictures, take a sample and bam, mission complete.

It's all about the effort put in to the satisfaction gained and right now to be honest there's not much of it since most is served on a silver platter. This comparison is silly and I don't know if people will like me mentioning it but playing Kerbal Space Program and taking three hours to build, learn and land a craft on the moon for the first time was so gratifying and satisfying that it was worth the effort, that's the feel I want this game to have and move towards.

[dahunn 10]

why does everybody want to land the rover.

Landings were automatic. i like it the way it is. I hope the devs will keep thing realistic, or as a option that i can turn it on or off.

[EmissionGeneration 10]

why does everybody want to land the rover.

Landings were automatic. i like it the way it is. I hope the devs will keep thing realistic, or as a option that i can turn it on or off.

The DEVs have spoken about giving us the ability to control the Landing, but I'm sure they will have the option for Automated or not.

I like your idea of the Ability to Plan out your Mission through Mission Control, setting Co-Ordinates, and scanning Sat Maps for Area's of Interest. That will definitely add alot to the Gameplay indeed, and make you start feeling like you have control over it.

[whiteraven_t1 10]

I totally agree with EmissionGeneration.

I'ave already expressed some suggestions in this thread http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?160545-Misc-Suggestions

Basically, there's a big lack of freedom, lack of possible choices and kinda lack of drama.

Yes, the game feels on rails and really needs major improvements, otherwise it's replayability will be very small.

[Ingolf 10]

I agree with the OP. The missions are on rails. We need more freedom, either a "mission design table" or allow for more thinking at the site (or possibly both). Now, it may not be that easy to implement as some specific goals must be reached and flagged "complete". In general I would like to see the use of coordinates instead of an arrow/cross pointing me from A to B. I do need to run the game a bit more before I can come with some proper suggestions. Overall, I think Take on Mars has a great potential to satisfy both the casual and the hardcore player. Thanks for making this great exploring game!

[dram 14]

Great news guys, with the upcoming new update, the freedom you have all been hoping for will become a reality. No longer do you follow a linear campaign, instead you have many locations to explore, with Global Objectives that you must complete, but it is up to you on how to complete them. Individual missions in locations are tied to these objectives, so by completing missions you complete the objectives. This means that you choose what you will investigate, going at your own pace, and perhaps choosing to explore Deimos first, prior to Mars. It's all up to you.

Additionally, the new Tech Tree system means that you can wave goodbye to the old Tech Level system. Now you get to perform research in various fields which in turn bring you new equipment. This means you can choose to first research Rovers and research Landers later. Or, you can research the Zero-G Probe first and head to Deimos first.

So there is a lot to look forward to, and this is a great example of how your suggestions in turn dramatically affect the direction in which the game is developed. So please keep up the great suggestions and thank you for your undying support!

[felthat 1]

Deimos from the very beginning :o it will be hard to leave probes for rovers or landers