Snipers

[Col. Kurtz 0]

It is. But so is executing POWs. Still happens.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 04 2002,04:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">same as everyone else. rules of engagement are for all soldiers.<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm, aren't those rules total bs?

If i would be a soldier in wartime and i'd see an enemy medic helping one of the enemies soldiers then i'd shoot that bastard.

Or when one of those meds come to close i'd kill him too.

I really wouldn't want to take any risks, ok, it's unfair but i don't think that a lot of fair things happen during wartime.

Same for killing POWs, i've seen soldiers executing ppl (civilians who didn't have anything to do with the war) just for fun, and no that wasn't only during the WWs, the video's that i've seen date from the 70's or 80's, i think.

It clearly shows allied soldiers (better not say the country cuz then everybody starts flaming but i guess it's kinda clear already ) calming down a black man and asking him to sit down and relax, his hands are tied. They lay him on the ground and suddenly you see this guy's eyes getting bigger, he screams and suddenly 4 shots are fired in his chest, he still moves a bit so a 5th bullet ends his life. After that you hear the soldiers laughing a bit and then they continue with what they were doing. And these ppl never get convicted...

Now that i talk about it i also remember that famous movie from the chinees guy (i think) getting shot through his head.

Anyway, how do they control this? If i use dum dum bullets in wartime, who's gonna blame me after the war? There's no real proof and stuff like that, right?

[Blaegis 0]

The whole concept of "civilized warfare" or "rules of war" is a total joke. The combatants have committed in the past, are committing now and will commit so-called "atrocities" on the battlefield in the future as well. It simply stems from human nature. The only thing that varies is the degree of atrocities committed. Also, after the war, the victors can use the atrocities commited by the other side to make their life difficult while conveniently ignoring the equal (or greater) atrocities commited by their own side.

[Harnu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Aug. 04 2002,03:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AFAIK, SWATS prefer shooting to the face area described above. One time, there was an incident where a gril was kidnapped and the kidanpper was chased by police. after some pursuit, the suspect's car flipped, and the girl managed to wiggle out. the suspect then tried to chase her with gun in hand, and SWAT sniper shot him in the head. (it's been long time since I saw the interview with that sniper)<span id='postcolor'>

I remember that one.  It was nuts. He had several chanes to take the shot prior didn't he? But he didn't want to risk the life of the little girl.

And what about cold barrel/warm barrel. That first shot always is off a little bit isnt it?

[Blaegis 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ Aug. 04 2002,17:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And what about cold barrel/warm barrel.  That first shot always is off a little bit isnt it?<span id='postcolor'>

I always thought it was the first, or "cold barrel shot" that counted for SWAT/CT snipers. I mean, in hostage rescue situtations you rarely get a second chance. I also seem to recall that LAPD SWAT sniper qualification involved cold barrel shots, i.e. you have to hit within a certain sized target from a certain distance with your first attempt...

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Actually I didnt want to contribute here, but it is kind of disgusting how cold you talk about surgical wounds and head shots, well, typical soldiers!

I think I keep out of this thread!

[ralphwiggum 6]

Albert, aren't you the one who posted about wounds generated by different kind of bullets and how they do it in old forum?

anyway, at least in OFP, i kill medics no matter what. otherwise they fire at me.

[Oligo 1]

I read a recollection by a german soldier about a really freakish impact one of his buddies suffered. It seems that a russian shot him in high-forehead. The bullet penetrated the top of the helmet (a slanted surface) and lost a lot of energy. The bullet wasn't able to pierce the skull of the soldier, so it skimmed along the inside of the helmet, ending up exiting under the lip of the helmet in the back. From there it travelled inside the jacket of the soldier, skimming straight down and ended up wedged between the ass-cheeks of the victim.

So all this soldier got was a bleeding wound in the head, but no skull fracture. Freaking amazing.

[ralphwiggum 6]

that is truly a pain in the ass.

[LauryThorn 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">skimming straight down and ended up wedged between the ass-cheeks of the victim. <span id='postcolor'>

I read a similar story, maybe it was the same.

However, that bullet caused extreme pain because it was so hot!

[DarkLight 0]

What do you guys mean with cold barrel and warm barrel shots, does it actually make a difference?

Oh and that lucky german soldier story was very funny to read, kinda reminded me of that part from Saving Private Ryan where they're on Omaha Beach and one of them gets hit in the middle of his helmet but the bullet didn't get through. This guy takes of his helmet looking at the damage the bullet made while his friend says that he's soooo lucky. And then a second bullet shoots the guy's head off...

Hehehe, very nice part.

I can't imagine how that german should've felt, you're helmet is hit and your ass hurts...

[Col. Kurtz 0]

In that saving Ryan scene, I doubt the bullet actualy touched him. It proabbly went over his head. As I said before, lots of amazing accounts. In the Falklands war, an Argetnine soldier was shot in the head. It actualy missed most of his brain and he didnt have too much phyical damage(becuse the Argentine was talking to the intervewies about his experiance). The British thought he was dead so they were going to bury him. About us coldies, well m not a soldier(too young) but thats not to say I havent seen dead bodies(none with bullet wounds although! or wounds in real life. I think there is something that happens to people when they relise how screwed the world is. You go cold. Death is something you talk about calmly. Hell, Im so screwed up, when a guy I had known for most of my life commited suicide I basically brushed it off. My rules of engadgment for this place, never attatch yourself to anyone or anything. The more you have, the more you have to lose. Dont bother commenting on my cold sick philosiphy, it is just that.

[scout 0]

here is a real story from my Officers school days:

we were practicing before an ambush in south Lebannon.

the last ex. consisted activation of an ambush live fire.

so we lay before the targets and when the signal was given we lay fire and charged them.

when the second squad  went off, we suddenly saw one guy go down screaming. running to him we saw he was shot in the groin.

the shot enter his left chik in his butt and exited his thigh.it took out half his penis and one of his balls and hit a main artery in his thigh.

it took about 7 people to take care of him. me and another SEAL had to hold him cause he screamed like a slaughtered pig. 2 medics took care of his groin, another stopped his bleeding from the thigh, 2 his bleeding in the ass and another picked all the falling parts into an ice pack.

15 minutes later he was evaced with a chopper.

what happened there was, when the charging  order was given, not all repeated it. as a result the sharpshooter to his left didnt hear the command, and was still down looking through a NVSight, Aquila X4. the guy just entered his sights at the moment the sharpshooter shot.

the guy was walking by the end of the course (3 months) and got an honorary 1st Lt. rank.

although he was still limp.

oh, forgot, they attached his penis back, but he has only one of his balls........

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ Aug. 05 2002,17:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">he was shot in the groin.

he screamed like a slaughtered pig<span id='postcolor'>

I know that i'd scream like a pig when i got hit THERE!

Hehe, anyway, feel free to post more of this stuff, kinda amusing...

[Blaegis 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Aug. 05 2002,11:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What do you guys mean with cold barrel and warm barrel shots, does it actually make a difference?<span id='postcolor'>

As I understand it, when you fire rounds through a weapon, its barrel heats up and expands, changing its physical characteristics and thus affecting the trajectory of the bullet.

One of the most famous of such survival episodes is the story of Lt. Robert Lawrence of the Scots Guards, who got hit in the head by an Argentine bullet during assault on Mount Tumbledown in Falklands. He lost a significant part of the brain but still survived and eventually recovered. Apparently the British frontline first-aid/surgery stations were excellent during that conflict.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Aug. 04 2002,23:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I read a recollection by a german soldier about a really freakish impact one of his buddies suffered. It seems that a russian shot him in high-forehead. The bullet penetrated the top of the helmet (a slanted surface) and lost a lot of energy. The bullet wasn't able to pierce the skull of the soldier, so it skimmed along the inside of the helmet, ending up exiting under the lip of the helmet in the back. From there it travelled inside the jacket of the soldier, skimming straight down and ended up wedged between the ass-cheeks of the victim.

So all this soldier got was a bleeding wound in the head, but no skull fracture. Freaking amazing.<span id='postcolor'>

I've met a SWAT officer from Southern California who was shot with a .22LR in the forehead. The bullet didn't penetrate the skull, but travelled under the skin to the back of the head where it exited. He has a rather odd-looking welt on his forehead...

[Col. Kurtz 0]

In Vietnam there was a famous war photographer called Tim Page. He was wounded 5 times in the war, the last near fataly. The chopper he was in was diverted to pick up some wounded. The huey landed, and Page jumped out behind a sergeant. The sergeant stepped on a mine. It blew the sergeants legs off, and a piece of shrapnel cut into Tim Pages brain. He was taken to a field hospital. The doctor there removed a chunk of his brain the size of an orange. The doctors reckoned he had 20minutes to live. He survived, and made it back to America where they filled the space in his head with epoxy resin. He was told he would be paralized down the left side of his body, but managed to get movement out of it anyway.

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

You can actually get part of your brain shot out and live.There are parts of the brain you dont need.

[USSoldier11B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You can actually get part of your brain shot out and live.There are parts of the brain you dont need. <span id='postcolor'>

Some more than others.......

As far as head shots are concerned, that is more of a Delta/SAS/HRT type thing. A shot to the medula oblongota will drop someone without any bodily reflex. (i.e. terrorist holding hostages at gun point, a shot anywhere else could cause him to pull the trigger.) These men shoot thousands of rounds per day and develop a skill called instinctive fire. A sort of neurological shortcut giving them superior accuracy and reaction time. Standard U.S. military doctrine teaches soldiers to shoot center mass. This is also true for conventional military snipers. A 7.62x 51 BTHP or .300 Win Mag round center mass will pretty much ruin anyone's day up to 800-1000 meters.

[M_S_Holder 0]

I've always heard that a sniper, unless he was trying to kill a specific person (assasinate), he was urged to wound soldiers, which caused even more of a hassle to the enemy.

A sniper round is pretty powerful though, and I'd imagine a center-mass shot would have a good chance of killing.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USSoldier11B @ Aug. 05 2002,19:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>These men shoot thousands of rounds per day and develop a skill called instinctive fire.

</Snip><span id='postcolor'>

That's a slight exaggeration, but yeah, they do a lot of live-fire drills.

I've watched some guys with exceptional gun handling skills perform truly amazing feats, and there is little conscious thought involved at the level that they are at.