Action Menu - must do better

[pillpopper123 10]

Man, this software is a user experience nightmare. I give up.

?????

[GottyPlays 10]

?????

that's simply the truth, i tried to immerse loads of my friends with arma 3, not a single one of them kept the game on the hd...it's very hard to get into this game, this action menu, chaos in the server browser, lack of tutorials, and general diversity of gameplay from the usual arena shooter keep away a lot of people, but that's a real shame because this game is so friggin' awesome!

maybe it's more of a shame because i think all of this bugs/annoyances/bad design decisions could have been fixed quite simply

[big_t 1]

2 thoughts

1 weapon selection: Just make them Hot keys: f1 primary, f2 side, f3 rocket, f4 grenade etc.. Yes just like bf3 (ducks for cover) . I'm sorry but it just works and would take some confusion and clunkiness away from the scroll action menu. I hardly ever switch back to pistol when in a combat situation yet I'm presented with the option all the time and end up switching back and forth by accident.

2 entering Vehicles: one button to enter (say "e") and then once you are in you can switch by say alt "arrow key " to switch your position inside the vehicle. As it is now it just takes too long and you are presented with a laundry list of options. Sometimes when your squad is under fire and you are all trying to pile in a truck and get the heck out of there, you don't really care which comfy seat you are sitting in, you just want to enter the vehicle as fast a possible. You can decide your seat and play musical chairs later. E for enter and figure it out later :)

So basically assign more of the action Menu to hard keys. With say alt arrow key or numerical keys to cycle though the options after (switch weapons , switch seats)

[blackmailer 10]

bump

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10726

[big_t 1]

bump

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10726

Bump it up indeed.

Yup! as of now: 501 vote(s) and 99,21% so I guess that means it's definitely going to get fixed :) And it will be great!

T

[dale0404 5]

Bump it up indeed.

Yup! as of now: 501 vote(s) and 99,21% so I guess that means it's definitely going to get fixed :) And it will be great!

As I keep saying this is a foible of the Arma series and I am sure this same issue was brought up in Arma 1 and Arma 2. Nothing got "fixed" then so why should they fix it now? Remember Arma uses most of the keys on the keyboard already, that's why the game needs the action menu. I find using it perfectly fine but that's probably because I have been playing the Arma series since OFP days so I am completely used to it.

If BIS comes up with a better solution then all well and good, but somehow I doubt they will. Not for this iteration of the game anyway,

[Minoza 11]

But community keeps coming with better solutions, isn't it? Or are you not reading the topic? Yeah, it is using a lot of keys, but it isn't using all the combinations out there. We do need action menu, nobody said otherwise, what we don't need in there is the stuff we could easily map on a key combo.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Minoza

[big_t 1]

As I keep saying this is a foible of the Arma series and I am sure this same issue was brought up in Arma 1 and Arma 2. Nothing got "fixed" then so why should they fix it now? Remember Arma uses most of the keys on the keyboard already, that's why the game needs the action menu. I find using it perfectly fine but that's probably because I have been playing the Arma series since OFP days so I am completely used to it.

If BIS comes up with a better solution then all well and good, but somehow I doubt they will. Not for this iteration of the game anyway,

Yeah you keep saying the same thing but it doesn't seem to make any difference to the point. The community has spoken loud and clear: 501 people said they want a change and about 4 said not. So I guess you are in the vast minority of testers who does not want a change with action menu. You have been playing for 10 plus years so you can become used to the way it works, I've learned to deal with it a bit but it still frustrates me to no end sometimes. Getting used to chronic back pain doesn't mean you are ok with back pain.

Do me a small favor. Ask one of your friends who has never played arma before but has played other shooter/action/military games and get some feedback from a fresh user. It's more than just a foible it's just a clunky UI system as of now.

I'm sure BI will make the change if not what the heck is the point of the feedback system? I could understand for smaller supported issues but 500 people....

t

[dale0404 5]

Yeah you keep saying the same thing but it doesn't seem to make any difference to the point. The community has spoken loud and clear: 501 people said they want a change and about 4 said not. So I guess you are in the vast minority of testers who does not want a change with action menu. You have been playing for 10 plus years so you can become used to the way it works, I've learned to deal with it a bit but it still frustrates me to no end sometimes. Getting used to chronic back pain doesn't mean you are ok with back pain.

Do me a small favor. Ask one of your friends who has never played arma before but has played other shooter/action/military games and get some feedback from a fresh user. It's more than just a foible it's just a clunky UI system as of now.

I'm sure BI will make the change if not what the heck is the point of the feedback system? I could understand for smaller supported issues but 500 people....

Hi mate,

I am not against change and as I said in my post if BI come up with a better solution then so be it, I will not have any choice but to get used to the new system. :)

[nodunit 397]

I still have hair pulling moments with the action menu but it mostly relates to doors, there really should be absolutely no reason that doors should be on the menu, and that the player should be able to open a door without facing it.

But watching that video helps me to understand why so many people get frustrated..looking at it from their perspective, most games have you use a single action key to pick up objects, open doors, and get into a vehicle. The interaction almost always occurs in a 35 or so degree cone in front of the player so that they don't ineract with the wrong object. Imagine trying to play Amnesia the Dark Descent if the pointer wasn't as precise.

Following that weapons are switched between by a number system or scroll wheel.. going further, even if they aren't in the seat they want to be in when they enter the vehicle, a single press of another key or number keys aka F1-F4 allows them to quickly move through the seats.

For example, say you have a race based map in a standard first person game, the goal is to run through a maze of doors and beat the clock. All you do is run up to the doors close together (imagine coming to a three way junction) and press the action key to open the door direction in front of you. Whereas if you tried this in any Arma game, the action menu would fumble about as you approach the door, making it a mystery game as to which door you opened..made worse by the fact that doors DO NOT MAKE ANY SOUND ON BEING OPENED OR CLOSED so you have no audio input as to what you're doing until you turn to see that..oh..it's the door beside/behind me.

For vehicle example, one would simply walk up to it and press E, if it puts me in the seat I do not wish to be in then I press the appropriate key to go there, whereas in Arma you walk up to the vehicle, action menu tries to decide your approach and give you the nearest position, sometimes wrong as we saw with the ghost hawk door gunner. Being inside the vehicle and changing to the seat isn't as bad but imagine if firing from vehicles WAS implimented and you wanted to ride in the back, you wouldn't be able to shift between the various passenger seats for one.

I personally don't want action menu erased, it has its uses, especially third party...but it is being used for far too much, in places it shouldn't be.

[Smurf 12]

It got a little better in A3 over previous games but isn't good yet. The problem is that this action menu is attached to too many things: actions (duh), weapon selection, ammo selection, weapon usage (explosives), mission actions (shouldn't) and more.

You have to re arrange all of those and will poke in other things while doing so: animations (if grenades\explosives become "equipable" for instance), commanding and the menus designs.

Is not an easy or small task but it is more than about time to do it, the infamous clunkiness of A2 doesn't stop at animations and is higly related to all those.

[nodunit 397]

For another example of empathy I'd like to use TKOH. For those of us that have played on the harder difficulties we know that the only way to start the helicopter is to go through a start up procedure, a procedure that is step by step and time based. Imagine if instead of having the look and interact system, you have to perform all of those functions on the action menu. And then imagine the action menu scrambling it a bit when you look around while stacking all of the functions at all times.

[comp_uter15776 1]

I do agree that I think part of this is what makes ArmA a bit clunkier/slower...

I acknowledge it's a milsim and thus isn't as "arcadey", but there is a difference between doing something right and the following:

Running to building, charging, firing at a couple of enemies near by. You get to the door. THEN. You have to stop, wait that you're not sprinting any more, scroll to bring up the menu initially, search for the one you need, scroll to it, click down/hit spacebar or enter, and finally that door is open. Begin process of clunky animations of door and probably kicking you to the side as it opens, and you can hop in.

I don't normally compare to an arcade, but let's take BF3 as one vague example.

On the (albeit) limited doors available, you're running up to it, take out your guys, reach the door, you stop sprinting relatively quicker than you do in ArmA, your degree of vision is at least on the door, you open it with "e" or whatever else the action key is, door opens, you're in.

I know you can do similar via default action with things like doors and selecting pilot/copilot/gunner seats etc in ArmA, but nonetheless it is still very slow to respond imo and because the action menu is so heavily crowded that may be a different typical action to the one you need.

[blackmailer 10]

bump

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10726

[blackmailer 10]

bump :(

[blackmailer 10]

for people who saw the livestream. even more options in the "action" menu with these new uavs...

[4 IN 1 0]

IMO, all UI that is related to command and action needed a face lift ever since ARMA2, sadly BI seems to be trying very hard to do the exactly opposite by making it even worse.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Sakura_Chan got a very nice concept going on. This plus some kind of interaction menu (ACE...) and we could say good bye for the scroll menu:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?161146-KEYS-No-action-menu

[blackmailer 10]

thanks for sharing!

[txalin 2]

As i said on Arma3 engine thread, this issue and better bugfixing process should be mandatory on BIS HQ from my point of view, let me copy paste:

- GUI: For god shake, we have the same gui since OFP, seriously, can't be updated? take a look to Battlefield and his radio communication!!

Solution: Hire a good GUI creator. Let me show you a good example, take a look:

http://www.gamesajare.com/2.0/wp-con...cel_teclas.png

Those are all the possible keys combination used for making all actions in arma 2. Can you imagine the face of that newbie guy that wants to join to the arma multiverse when he saw that screenshot? Making things easier for new users is not related to lower the simulation quality of the game. BIS need to revamp the whole GUI and reduce the amount of keystrokes needed for playing the game. A good example on this point is Battlefield 3. You can do this actions without using a keystroke: http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Commo_Rose . Ok, i know that we can do more thing in arma 3 than un BF, but the key point is that BIS need to make the interface more user-friendly, we cannot have a 2001 gui on a 2013 game..

btw, someone knows if there is a list of all the possible actions available in a fresh arma 3 installation? (no mods or addons or so)

[squirrel0311 16]

As far as AI commands go, I think a revamped version of the Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising Comm Rose would be ideal. Maybe cross it with the BF2 command rose. I think in BF2 there were actually 3 roses… one for communication, one for individual player actions, and one for fire support…maybe not though. For those that don’t remember the Dragon Rising rose, it opened up with more options depending on where you clicked.

As I stated on the Wish List-No Discussion, page 213… I WANT MY NUMBER KEYS BACK!

I’m not sure if they’ve fixed it but everything on the keyboard should be customizable by the user….Should you be allowed to keep the menu how it is? Sure. Should you have the option for something better if you want it though? Absolutely! I don’t completely hate the scroll menu but I think it should be restricted to only whatever is being used/interacted with.

I personally believe that weapons should be set to number keys. I know people like to call it arcadeish when you set weapons to number keys but if you think about it….

In real life…. All the tactical gear that people buy is designed for one purpose… to make your gear easier to wear, access, and use. This same concept could be applied to the use of number keys.

I strongly believe that was one of the major oversights by the developers….It’s 2035 and we seem to have forgotten all about smooth quick weapons transitions, one point slings, and weapons catches. Ordinarily you would execute a weapons transition from primary to secondary when the immediate employment of your primary weapon is no longer the best option. This often takes place under fire and when you have no good cover, meaning that you SHOULD be moving. However, thanks to the animations or whatever the problem is… you can’t switch weapons while moving so that makes that option practically useless.

My personal set up would look something like this….

Pointing at a door and scrolling up or down would push it open or closed like in Sakura Chan’s video. However, I could also double click with the scroll wheel button to open up more options(Lock door, pick lock, kick door? Get in gunner seat, etc.…) or single click to just use the item/function. For wounded you would simply point and scroll down to drag, scroll up to drop, and click to give first aid/open the first aid rose for more in-depth game play types.

Number keys:

1. Primary Weapon or TOGGLE Primary to Secondary / Secondary to primary

2. Secondary Weapon or TOGGLE Current weapon to launcher / Launcher to previous weapon

3. Launcher or Muzzle thump (If they ever add it. This could work with a bayonet too if they ever add that.)

4. IFAK or bring up the First Aid rose/menu for more in-depth game play.

5. Cycle grenades or maybe open a weapons rose(You could choose options for your rifle, grenade launcher, or pistol such as load tracers, change rate of fire, reload 40mm smoke or flares, or switch to smoke grenades or chemlights.)

6. Special gear (Mine Detector, UAV terminal, or whatever else.)

7. Switch to grenade launcher, change to tracer magazines or Consolidate ammo (If that is ever added.)

8. Place Explosives or open a Ordinance rose to choose the type of explosives or mines, place, set timer or even touch off. (Voiding 0)

9. Empty

0. Touch off bombs

NOTE: As other have said, it’s a matter of separating user items/weapons from things that you interact with like doors and vehicles. If you haven’t noticed already, I’m a fan of rose menus but one feature I would like to see if they are added is the option to set certain functions in those menus as a single key as well. (I.E. Ctrl+G=Cycle Grenades but you could also do it through the Weapons rose.)

Weapons rose: Primary weapon (Left side)- switch rate of fire, load tracer mag, consolidate ammo(center button). Grenade Launcher (Top Right)- Load Smoke, Load flare, Load HEDP. Special launcher(Top) Load AT, Load AA. Grenades (Bottom): Select smoke, select flare, select chemlight, select rock, select incendiary, or select Frag. (You would still use the throw key to throw grenade types.) I drew another sweet picture for this on MS Paint but my work filter won’t let me post it.

Ordinance: Select claymores or various mine types. Select Satchel or other explosives, Set timer, touch off. (Touch off should be center or bottom button)

Though I wonder if it might be easier to make all weapons and ordinance options usable from the inventory menu…?