Is the muzzle flash too visible?

[armachao999 10]

It might just be me, or is the muzzle flash many of the weapons way too visible? It seemed like it was much more realistic when it was very faint, and there was just smoke mostly. Now is seems like there's no smoke, and it's all flash. I don't know, maybe it's just me.

Also: does it seem like the recoil got increased to anyone else?

[chortles 263]

There was supposed to be a flash suppressor attachment, but that never made it into the alpha so it seems that as game mechanics are concerned, none of the affected weapons have integral flash hiders?

[instagoat 133]

I think it is alright.

As far as flash hiders go, some weapons have more effective ones than others. The TRG has a modest muzzle signature, and the keltec SDAR also has only a small muzzle flash. There will be flash hiders, however, it looks like BI has modelled KX3 style muzzle brakes, which do -not- suppress the flash signature.

I suspect BI will still model the existing muzzle devices (screenshots can be found elsewhere of opfor soldiers using these devices, and there are the UI pictures in the alpha) as suppressing flash.

[afp 1]

Actually I think the problem is not the flash, but the smoke. There is almost no smoke at all and I have maximum "particles" settings...

[armachao999 10]

Actually I think the problem is not the flash, but the smoke. There is almost no smoke at all and I have maximum "particles" settings...

Amen to that. I think I'm okay with the flash, if it was just less bright. At daytime, you should not be able to see the flash that well. And then there needs to be a lot more smoke. If I remember correctly when I saw a similar rifle shot, it was more smoke than anything.

[Smurf 12]

Military grade ammo produces that much smoke? Don't think so....

[Wolfstriked 11]

Problem with smoke is it causes lights to get brighter.I'm blinded by it with a suppressor on and NV.Same with driving vehicles with headlights and vehicles throwing up dust in front of you.

[armachao999 10]

Military grade ammo produces that much smoke? Don't think so....

The amount of smoke I'm talking about is relative.

---------- Post added at 00:02 ---------- Previous post was at 22:15 ----------

now, I played around in the editor, and the flash was fine in daylight, and yet, in the showcase, firing in daylight, it was as visible as firing at night.

Edited May 28, 2013 by armachao999

[kremator 1065]

It's the future - no muzzle flashes existed after 2029, due to using the Higgs Boson to mask any photons being produced! Of course on the down side bullets now travel at the speed of light !

[KingChubbles 1]

Kremator: That makes it easier to kill blood dragons, mind you.

[dm 9]

Military grade ammo produces that much smoke? Don't think so....

Protip: "military" grade ammo sits somewhere between "cheap shit" and "really cheap shit"

It is my general experience that military grade ammo is moderately smokey, certainly more than we're seeing atm.

As for muzzle flash, let me repost this old gem:

Which is me, firing a vz.58 with [Czech] military surplus ammo. There isnt any smoke visible, but there is a buttload of flash.

[Second 0]

Protip: "military" grade ammo sits somewhere between "cheap shit" and "really cheap shit"

It is my general experience that military grade ammo is moderately smokey, certainly more than we're seeing atm.

As for muzzle flash, let me repost this old gem:

http://delorted.net/forum_nonsense/sa58.jpg

Which is me, firing a vz.58 with [Czech] military surplus ammo. There isnt any smoke visible, but there is a buttload of flash.

Depends. Western armies often have good powders. I think US currently is introducing ammo which is pretty much smokeless, but they have lagged behind with that for decades. Germans had practically smokeless powder already back in ww2. Which was problem from US point of view (not sure about soviets) as their powder wasn't nearly as smokeless. Flash is alot about rifle's parameters, which is often issue with carbines and such as they have considerable shorter barrel compared to rifles to which ammo was originally introduced, so fumes for ignition don't all burn up in barrel.

I've had Russian Barnaul for my modernized Mosin-Nagant which had tons of smoke. Could be flash too, i havent' much paid attention to it and it often isn't as clear to shooter as smoke. I use mostly Lapua and Sako which burns very cleanly and there is no smoke or flash. But i guess Barnaul just would have needed longer barrel or silencer for all powder to burn inside barrel instead of open air, it has heavier bullet (11gr) with seemingly same muzzlespeeds as with Lapua and Sako (850-900m/s).

My Army experiences are similar, but muzzle flash is pretty complicated matter (when put into practice) and in exercises there's blankadapter attached to rifle/LMG which affects to things quite a lot by increasing flash as burning pieces of wood are scattering into sides of rifle's muzzle. On firing range with live ammo there is no smoke of flash at daylight. I don't remember how it behaved in dark at livefire exercises or in firing range. We have similar 7.62x39 but Lapua produces ammo we use and it's pretty high grade.

[dm 9]

The Brits and the Dutch must use much cheaper ammo then, because I remember all my experiences being rather smokey...

That being said, there was always much less flash with the SA80 (has flash hider) and its cadet derivative the L98 (straight muzzle, like my vz.58 picture above)

[MattWales 10]

Daytime, you probably wont see much of a flash. I think it looks pretty close to the mark actually. I dont know about anyone else, but I have noticed that you can get the ocassional round that does produce a bit of a flash. I cant say I have ever seen much of a flash when I have used the L85A2. The flash hider on the A2 is pretty good; I havent used the Vortex flash hider that the newer "gucci" rifles that have the rail systems and newer optics.

At night; the flashes are f**king bright - brief - but bright. After heavy use, the barrel will also glow dark orange-red on LMGs/GPMGs.

Current military-grade ammunition produces very little smoke in my experience. The only thing you will get is a big smoke ploom from a freshly cleaned rifle that has a bit too much oil residue in the barrel; whilst ArmA 3 is realistic, I think expecting BI to replicate that is a bit much!

Now... a rifle that is fresh out of the water would produce a bit of steam, so there is the potential that you could simulate that.

The only other thing I'd like to see is the weapons start to produce a bit of smoke from the barrel when they overheat after heavy use - you watch any of the "AK47 Tested to Destruction" videos on YouTube (there are lots) and you'll see this. A rifle barrel gets incredibly hot pretty quickly - I've burnt my hand on one (when I was younger and less experienced - its only something you do once!) and I can only describe the sound as like bacon hitting a hot pan - its not pleasant, but the main thing is, a smoking barrel/handguard looks cool.

Edited June 1, 2013 by MattWales

[no use for a name 0]

Muzzle flash seems way too bright during the day; I also think there's not enough particle effects (besides smoke) for muzzle-blasts like dust and other particles getting stirred up. I would also like to see more smoke and dust buildup after long bursts of firing; at least enough to obscure an MG's view for a few seconds so they can't just spray 200 rounds on target

[Spooky804 10]

I can't say i remember there being a whole lot of smoke at the rifle range when i was in the Army. I mean yeah it was there but not in the quantities people on here seem to be looking for (as far as i can tell these people asking for more smoke seem to think that modern firearms use Black Powder instead of Cordite).

[nimrod123 11]

I can't say i remember there being a whole lot of smoke at the rifle range when i was in the Army. I mean yeah it was there but not in the quantities people on here seem to be looking for (as far as i can tell these people asking for more smoke seem to think that modern firearms use Black Powder instead of Cordite).

cordite went out of maistream use before WW2, it was only rarely used during it. by the end of WW2 we where already using 2 base powders regually and 3 base as well.

most triple base powder produce limited flash due to inert nitrogen, and hardly any smoke either.

its intirely likely that in 20 years time there will be no flash in anything but large cannons (tanks and artilery), and the smoke will be a minor haze

[EDcase 87]

You can say what you want about reality but this is a game after all and the flashes add visual impact.

My only gripe is they are too spikey in 1st person view.

[daveallen10 35]

I would like muzzle flashes to be equal to their counterparts in real life. Some guns will have little to no muzzle flash, some will be less visible. At night, I think it should definitely be very visible from a huge distance though.

[Smurf 12]

Well we can all agree that what we have now is better than that semi transparent "thing" that was used on early Alpha, can't we?

Anyway, silenced weapons casting lights without any major muzzle flash do look very weird.

[alx 20]

There was a legendary thread about muzzle flash on the IL2 Sturmovik forums years ago. Same arguments; too much vs. too little muzzle flash. Oleg Maddox (then a keen photographer and now a professional photographer for Nikon) pointed out that all the film and photos of muzzle flash seen in daylight are artifacts of the light wavelength sensitivity of films. These images do not accurately reflect what the eye sees. The eye sees significantly less flash. Thus, it's a common trap of both movies and computer games to try and simulate what is "seen" on film, which is inaccurate if you're trying to simulate what is experienced in person. Thus, this has to be a game design choice for BIS.

[EDcase 87]

...muzzle flash seen in daylight are artifacts of the light wavelength sensitivity of films...

Yes, except modern cameras don't use film anymore ;)

The major difference between eyes and cameras is Exposure. In cameras its either fixed or auto but quite slow to react. With human eyes the iris responds much quicker to sudden bright areas in a scene and the brain does A LOT of processing.

Whatever the technical arguments, muzzle flashes are still impressive and give a sense of power to a virtual weapon that you can't feel.

PLUS they are needed for gameplay to spot enemies who can be VERY well hidden...

Edited June 7, 2013 by EDcase

[no use for a name 0]

I did notice that now there's "micro-sparks" outside of the actual "flash" animation simulating individual grains of powder still burning. You barely even notice them at night unless you have NVG's; pretty cool (and realistic) effect IMO. I still think the edges of the actual flame need to be more transparent, especially during the day

[alx 20]

I completely agree with you ED, although I wonder what the wavelength sensitivity of CCDs and CMOS sensors are. I doubt they are the same as the human eye.

Regards,

Alex

[Smurf 12]

Question: Every shot creates a muzzle flash IRL?