Can we safely use AI mods with SP Missions?

[doveman 7]

Everyone says how much better the AI is when using certain mods (tpw_AI_LOS, tpwc_ai_sup, zeus AI) but I always worry when playing a SP mission that they might break something in the mission, resulting in it being impossibly hard or things not triggering, so currently I just don't use them as it's no fun playing for 30mins or longer only to find something's not working and having to start again with all the mods disabled (not that I bothered, as I was too annoyed by then and just stopped playing).

So does anyone able to give a definitive list of AI mods that definitely DON'T break missions or is that simply not possible? If not, it seems hard to imagine them being used much and the only solution would be for Arma to have the mods incorporated (i.e the default AI improved so that no AI mods are needed) as then mission creators would know how the AI reacts and users wouldn't have to use mods, which might break the mission.

[sander 14]

That would not be possible. There is such a wide range of missions and such a diversity of AI mods it is impossible to give a general verdict about compatibility. Unless the creator used partiuclar mods while creating a scenario it is a rule of thumb that it is not supported. Playing with the minimum required set of addons, those specified in an accompanying readme file, is advisable. Personal experience indicates AI mods can make inordinate claims on processing power that impair the initialisation of a mission, thereby breaking the intended set up of initial values, or cause units to spend many times the normal amount of time when needing to cover ground. Route marches can sometimes easily take three to four times the normal time because the AI can no longer follow a waypoint set a kilometer away without redoing its calculations over and over and over again.

Regards,

Sander

[NoRailgunner 0]

Just read the readme's of addon/mods, adjust the settings how you like but don't forget that different AI setups do change something. There is no "SuperAI" addon/mod that fits everyone's taste... sometimes you will find out that playing with additonal AI tweaks/features makes it more interesting/fun than just hanging around with vanilla AI. Maybe try "ASR AI" addon and if it breaks too many missions for you - change the 'asr_ai_settings.hpp'.

[maturin 12]

Just do it. If you have to ditch or restart every tenth mission, so what.

[doveman 7]

Thanks guys. It's a shame but pretty much what I expected to hear so I'll just avoid using mods other than the recommended ones for each mission.

maturin, it tends to be more like you spend 30-60mins on the mission and then something doesn't trigger or it's messed up in some way, so you can't even complete one mission.

[foffy 58]

The AI mods in question will, on average, make the game have more drawn out, longer conflicts. It makes it better, but in very few cases it can break the game. Say the AI is specifically designed to come directly at you from the south, the AI mods might make them take an entirely different route to flank you if they know you're there. Unless you're in charge of your unit, the scripted friendly AI will not address this issue and re-position to accommodate this tactical change.

None of the TPW mods (you can just use TPWCAS and enable the updated LOS mod inside of it found in the userconfig for TPWCAS) break mission triggers. In fact, I don't think any of the AI mods you listed break triggers. What tends to break most missions is ACE. If it's not compatible with it, you'll be expecting lots of issues. Especially if specific units like heavy armor are classified one way in the mission, as ACE tends to classify them with a new damage system. So a unit that is designed to go down in one shot now takes three, and a unit that can take a beating is taken down by any missile. It's all still something you can handle, but expect hiccups. That is to be expected when updating the game for mechanics not planned for when the single player content was made, or had it in mind.

Give it a try. The worst that happens is it gets a little iffy. The best that happens is it becomes more immersible/tactical/frustratingly-realistic.

[chrisb 196]

What I can’t understand is, its an Open World game, so why not design yourself open world missions (anything can happen).

The aim is to be more or less completely unaware of what’s going to happen, even though you built the mission, i.e you have an objective/s and you have an enemy, hopefully you complete your objective, leave the enemy to devise tactics themselves, design it in.

A little thought into mission design, reading the ‘readme’ of ai mods used, experimenting and testing, doesn’t take long to learn the basics. The upshot of that time spent, will be the fact you discover the game as intended, not many on here play that way, preferring to micro manage each mission.

I used to do that (micro manage) on a board/pc with ASL, long time ago, been war-gaming for decades, its fine, if thats what you want. But the whole reason of this series is to move away from that type of game-play.

With the mods that are available, its even more possible than first hoped for by BIS. In-fact, infinitely possible, a completely different game to that played by many players.

Try it, you won’t look back..

Anyway:

SLX has ‘no auto engage’ so could cause a problem, as ai may not do what you micro managed them to i.e. divert around large numbers of enemy, you being that enemy mostly.

GL4 will almost certainly not do what you want, if the mission wasn't made using gl4. It’s a different mission type and game-play, make missions using gl4 format instead, far better.;)

Zeus is reasonably safe to use for most missions.

TPW suppress won’t alter much other than maybe timing, if your micromanagement goes that far.:j:

Fight an enemy you haven’t given overly pre-orders/routines to. To do so in real life, would be like crossing the enemy line and briefing their troops as to what you would like them to do.:rolleyes: When the possibility is there, to not have to do that, in the game, to open up the mission to 'anythings possible', why would you not use that possibility to its fullest..:confused:

The moral, should there be one here, don’t micro manage, use the game as intended, open world, missions to suit..

Just my opinion doveman..:)

[chortles 263]

I believe that doveman meant using AI mods when running already-built SP missions that weren't built using SLX/GL4/Zeus/TPW...

[chrisb 196]

I believe that doveman meant using AI mods when running already-built SP missions that weren't built using SLX/GL4/Zeus/TPW...

Go on, he didn't, did he...;).

[Kommiekat 12]

Try it, you won’t look back..

Interesting concept you have here and I agree with most of it but as a mission maker, micromanaging is part of story telling. I can't have enemy AI running all over the map, in the wrong direction, so some control is needed, though thank god not like the "big games" such as COD and so forth which are, as you know, quite linear.

If I mission maker decides to use these addons ( I noticed you didn't refer to ASR AI, not sure why ), then that's just more addons on top of addons the player will be required to use to play SP mission, never mind SP campaigns

One reason I've stopped using GL4 and ASR AI, though I notice some members praise these addons like they're gods gift to gaming, even after setting up user configs, they enemy still come at you 2000 meters away, emptying the whole map, just to chase you down, so yes, they can be gamebreakers, from my personal experience.

These AI addons should remain a choice for the player.

[maturin 12]

Thanks guys. It's a shame but pretty much what I expected to hear so I'll just avoid using mods other than the recommended ones for each mission.

maturin, it tends to be more like you spend 30-60mins on the mission and then something doesn't trigger or it's messed up in some way, so you can't even complete one mission.

AI mods are unlikely to break triggers. They might just make you lose more.

You can generally tell whether or not a mission is 'brittle' or flexible in its layout. You can freely use AI mods with any mission that wasn't designed with carefully-managed cinematic action in mind. Anything designed for co-op is probably safe.

[doveman 7]

Go on, he didn't, did he...;).

Indeed I did ;)

I appreciate your advice about designing my own missions and what the respective mods do anyway, although whether I'll be able to find the time to do so is another matter :)

Thanks to everyone else who's given advice as well.

[kklownboy 43]

I always use ASR, and TPW No matter what the missions maker "wanted". If they break the mission, the mission is lame is is removed.