Multiplayer? Â its for the birds!

[JonasBane 0]

So I just finished the Resistance single player campaign and, damn, that was pretty cool.  The missions were varied.  The new equipment and personel rules were cleverly implimented.  In all, I was very impressed.  Before I turned to the single missions I thought I'd give multiplay a go.

After two nights of experimentation, my only verdict is that it sucks.

Maybe that needs some clairification.  Within hours of installing the original OpFlash, my roommate and I were already playing some LAN coop games.  Our neighbor stopped by that afternoon, saw how cool the game was, and he and his roommate came over and joined our little LAN party.  We must have played that Return To Eden mission a million times.  The next day I started making missions in the editor, and my roommate downloaded some missions from the web so we'd have more for the next weekend.  Since then, our little group has grown to a monthly 8v8.

You would think that I'd make the transition over to public internet games a little better.  Sure there's more lag, and you don't have voice communication with your team.  But the game has plenty of teamwork enhancing tools to keep everything running smoothly.

Unfortunately, a typical pub game boils down to Counter-Strike gameplay.  Step one, get a big gun.  Step two, find bad guy.  Step three, shoot him.  Go back to step two.  Occasionally you die and have to start over.  Sometimes people mess up on step two and shoot the good guys.  But we're talking about the same kind of gameplay.  The same lack of organization.  For all practical purposes, why aren't we playing Counter-Strike?

Because OpFlash can do large playing fields.  Yes, I'll give you that.  CS can't do large outdoor areas very well.  But its not like its helping our gameplay any.  This just means people can get further apart so you never have firefights bigger than a 2 v 2.  Your mission objectives are often thousand of meters apart so you're spending most of your time running to where you need to go.  Besides that, most players don't even recognize the existence of mission objectives or know how find their location on the map so they just get lost anyway.

But OpFlash has vehicles!  That's true, tanks and helicopters are cool.  But their only practical purpose in the game seems to be to get you from point A to point B faster.  I have yet to see a tank that was manned by more than one person.  Or a helicopter for that matter.  Tank battles are simply both tanks coming to a stop so they can switch to the gunner spot, then proceeding to pound at each other until one blows up.  Helicopters do impressive WTC imitations as they proceed to crash into buildings, tanks, and various hills.  But I haven't seen any provide close air support or do a transport that involved returning to base.

OpFlash is a mil-sim and CS is a twitchy action game!  I for one, would be fooled.  Have you seen anyone move as a squad?  Have you played on a server that used the Cadet visual cues so you could find your team?  Or played a mission that had more than two people per group?  Used team chat to work out a plan that wasn't ditched ten seconds after getting into the game?  In fact, have you even used the radio commands?  From what I've seen, no.

I'm wondering what went wrong.  How did we get a game geared towards tactical squad combat and turn it into another deathmatch FPS?  Maybe because we are all 14 year old kids who suck as CS and want to be good at something, so we gave OpFlash a try.  Or maybe because we're not using all the features that this game provides to establish a true team based tactical mil-sim.  Personally, I'm betting on the latter.

Therefore, I'd like to offer up some suggestions of things we can do to improve the situation.  I invite you to add your own.  Maybe we can hash out a few ideas here and get our community back on track.

Mission Makers - Keep It Small

A 30 v 30 game that involves the entire western side of Norgova with 17 tanks, 10 helis, and a bunch of other vehicles simply doesn't work with the average 12 players on a server.  6 people on a side is barely a squad, and having lots of real estate in the mission area makes things feel mighty empty.  Adding vehicles is not the solution.  This just helps to spread things out even more.  Instead, focus more missions on a single village or specific landmark.  I shouldn't be spending most of my game time either traveling to an objective or sitting there waiting for the bad guys to show up.

Server Admins - Keep Cadet Mode On

Alright, I know I'm probably going to get alot of flak for this.  There seems to be some kind of secret rule that Cadet mode sucks.  But I would contend that it adds essential tools to help players work as a team.  First off, its cake for people to find out where they are on the map.  Personally, I'm pretty good at finding out where I am using landmarks and whatnot.  But a majority of players have a hard time figuring it out.  And with the massive play areas that some of these missions provide its easy to get lost.

Second, the visual cues to help find your teammates is essential.  I can't recognize anyone by their ingame faces, nor do I have the time to run all the way over to them so I can see it.  With the Friendly Tags, simply passing my cursor over them tells me what they are (soldier, sniper, officer) and who they are.  This way, you can talk to people using their name instead of "guy on hill west of flag hiding in bushes." (which, by the way, is usually most of your team =) )  It also cuts back on friendly fire issues.  Sure, we can tell everyone to memorize the uniforms.  But when I steal an enemy tank and then get shot by my own RPG guys, you really can't blame them since they have no way of knowing.

Finally, when you do play a mission that has squads (all two of them it seems), you can actually give them useful orders.  Giving someone a target command will provide them with a little bracket so they know what you're talking about.  Working as a team in a vehicle is much easier as well, since the tank commander is actually useful instead of simply providing radio chatter.  Team leaders also get visual cues to help them find objectives, making navigation less of a burden.

BIS - Give us voice comms, please!

I know I'm probably asking for the impossible here.  Implimenting VON with the new sockets code will probably take a few months of development to get it working right.  But it provides a critical component to effective teamwork.  Events happen simply too fast for players to convey information effectively using text.

Jonas "snpr ne flg 400m L of blu bldg"

Quinicrux "what?"

Jonas "sniper north east of flag"

Quinicrux "where?"

Jonas "behind that blue building"

Quinicrux "what side?"

Jonas "the left"

Quinicrux "you mean the close blue building?"

Waring Hudsucker "OH NO... 4 IS DOWN!"

Quinicrux "or the far away one?"

Quinicrux "jonas?"

Waring Hudsucker "2 IS DOWN!"

I've had that happen one too many times.  Sure, we could all start using Roger Wilco or Teamsound.  But that just means I can talk to other people who are using the same software and I'm still madly typing away to the rest of my team.

Finally, the most controversal...

Turn on the AI

Before you start flaming me, let me explain.

Mission makers like to make things epic.  Why have a CTF in a small village when you can have a grand battle that takes place across many villages.  Imagine the massive engagements that could take place as one army tries to take a checkpoint from another.  Or a coordinated strike to steal a flag and get it back to base.  Now, jump on a pub server and look for things like "grand battles" and "coordinated strikes."  It doesn't happen.

Its hard to provide teamwork when you don't know the people you're working with.  If I give you an order, you'd probably ignore it.  Likewise, I'd ignore the ones you gave me.  The reason is because we each have different ideas of how to play.  But if you had a squad of 3 AI players under your command, and I had a squad of 3 under mine, we each could do our own thing and still be successful.  I could crew a tank and roll into downtown and you could get two helicopters airborne and strike them from above.  Our third buddy could put a sniper on the hill and have the rest of his team secure the village.  This is starting to sound like a "grand battle" that, believe it or not, has a "coordinated strike."  Something that without AI would be enormously difficult to duplicate.

But what about lag?  I'm guessing its really not that big of an issue.  At worst, an additional AI player is like adding an additional client to the game.  Except this client doesn't need any bandwidth from the server and basically has a zero ping.  For each client its like adding another tank or other object.  Sure, playing that Battlefields mission over the internet might get us into trouble.  But its still the easiest way to have a 30 v 30 game without handing out invitations and renting a hotel conference room.

Anyway, if you've gotten this far, thanks for sparing a few minutes to read through this.  Throw up your suggestions and we can start making this game live up to its potential.

Jonas Bane

There's Love Inside

[Kep Kelagin 1]

Good story, but I guess u visit the wrong servers...I agree, its hard to find decent opponents/teammates, but once u found a nice group of people, u will have mega-fun with Flashpoint.The guys I play with ,definatly don't use CS tactics or whatever u wanna call it, we play as a team, and it makes the game so much more fun.But, as I said, the hardest part is to find the proper people to play with

[Major Fubar 0]

Step no 1 to avoiding making OFP like CS...play coop instead of adversarial, works for me!

*sigh* Should have kept my mouth shut, this is where the deathmatch freaks who just dont get it say "why play coop, if you want to fight AI play single player"....

[WhoCares 0]

Looks like you had some bad expiriences...

Anserwing your points:

1. Keep it small

There is no need to have only small missions. It is up to the current admin on the server to choose missions appropiate to the numbers of players on the server. However, this is not always possible with voted admins, since they might not know the missions on the server.

2. Cadet mode

I am currently working on a CTF mission and I plan to have also a pro version, one feature disabling compass and map for all except squad leaders in veteran mode (if this is possible at all). But it is limited to a about 700x700m large battlefield with marked border, w/o vehicles.

But again the admin, voted or logged in, has the option to select cadet or veteran mode, when he chooses the mission. So tell the admin to play cadet mode, and if he wants to, he will do so... btw: Tags usually add more confusion, because when someone steals an enemy vehicle he is marked with the enemy tag

3. Voice comm...

...would be fine indeed, but the old implementation was based on DirectX. So now they would have to implement it on their own or license some 3rd party stuff, both more or less time consuming or/and expensive.

4. AI on

Depends on the mission. Coop makes sense, eg. for medic and generally additional manpower. CTF is more difficult, eg. with spawn close to the flag this leads to 'camping AI'.

And again its something you should ask the current admin, as it is his option to enable/disable AI.

But it is also a question of mission design. In most custom CTFs and many Coops, the mission designer didn't add waypoints for AI, what makes them just sitting where they spawned. There are also many CTFs w/o squads, every slot is his own leader (what is really bad IMO...).

[Kermit 0]

While I agree, I think the key is to have a smart administrator. If you kick the uncooperative players (pun intended), you can slowly thin out the Counterstrikers and you end up with a great team. I did this yesterday on the Desert Ambush map. I'm afraid I had to shoot two of my team members who were running off to be Rambos and spoiling the game (again) for the rest of us, who were acting as a team. If you've played Desert Ambush, you know that no one can break cover before the detonation of the charges, and these guys were actually firing LAWs, despite all requests and commands to the contrary, and doing other bullshit that amounted to waving a red flag and shouting, "Shoot us." Once the administrator found out who the guys I shot were and where they had been, he kicked them and we had a great mission, with full teamwork and cooperation. I never met any of the guys before, either, so it doesn't just have to be your friends.

[Placebo 28]

I only play Coop, I only play Coop with friends, I've never had a bad Opf MP experience.

[Harnu 0]

If you want cooperative MP play agasint other human players, get your friends. When you choose teams, all of you get in the same squad. D/L Rogerwilco, teamsound, or teamspeak if you want voice comm. There, you and your buddies can cooperate. IF your team doesn't cooperate on public servers, then you don't have to type to them anymore. Just talk to you and your buddies and do stuff.

The main reason AI is off, is becuase they are stupid. YOu have to order them to do everything. They couldn't tell their ass from a hole in the gound. It's just too much work with all the keys to command AI during MP play.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Dont rely on other people you dont know to act in an intelligent fashion. If you do, you will be dissapointed. If you want teamplay, start or join a squad that emphasizes teamplay, then when you go on a pub server, you have some guys you know that you can work with and so you can kick some ass.

[Chronicles 0]

Hello

I agree with all : COOP all the way

The only games where i have a lot of real fun was coop games.

But, there is a problem : the server problem.

It is easy to say "play only coop" , but probably your lovely coop server (in term of pings) are geographically near you.

But most of the times the best pings i have are for server TDM or CTF.

Sometimes, when i am lucky, a new elected admin change the server settings for a coop game, but the most of the time ctf or tdm with all the base raping with tanks you can see

Oh i had fun one time in a ctf , it was very late, it was a 3 vs 3 in a sniper game : that was very entertaining , the location was perfect for hinding , sniping etc.

But it was only one time i find this map played with cool people.

Coop as i said is the very best gametype of OFP in my opinion, especially with good friends.

But i agree 100 % to cadet mode suggestion , because when you give some order , the veteran mode dont display the effective move/action you want to the guy/girl you give the command

(by example :target this guy 12 o clock , the allied soldier you give the order have no clue at all if veteran mode is on on what soldier to target if there is an entire squad in the same hours/direction, in real life you can specify exactly quickly by the radio to a sniper who you want to be targeted, so in this case cadet mode is more realistic than veteran)

For the AI , it IS usefull if you die or your friends die , instead of waiting 20 mn for the end of a mission, it is more friendly and agreeable to be able to continue to play with our friends.

So friendly players (beginner or not, is not the problem, sympathetic is the quality to have) AI ON and Cadet mode ON (or if it was possible, only the target box ON in veteran mode online) are the way to go in a very good OFP coop experience

That is the only games i had fun online with OFP

But i have lot of fun with the OFP mission editor , offline i have no problem to set up the coop of my dreams , AI is so interesting in OFP

[kegetys 2]

I like playing hard coop missions that require real cooperation, and sometimes Attack/Defend maps which require good teamwork and planning from both sides... Both of those without respawn of course, and on veteran skill with crosshair and 3rd person off. And I can say that no other game is even close to OFP in bringing THE multiplayer experience for me

[spiderman6999 0]

i agree with the cadet setting always being enabled, i played on a server the other night and accidentally killed one of my team, BOOM i got banned from that server, i thought what the hell, that blew cause thats the only server i liked going to, and just because some not so smart admin thought he would up the difficulty. oh well im just gonna take placebo's advice and only play ofpmp with friends.

spidey.

[HellToupee 0]

yea while im waiting for loacal servers to get res i was playin on stoners server, it was on net no 3rd view etc and the admin booted a guy for tking i mean thats not fair. Cadet mode is good expesically for coops because u can see ur guys on the map u know who ur talking to and if theres a guy in enemy vechicle just hit p and see what side hes on, we we asked the admin to go cadet he said cadet is for noobs etc. I use vet for single player but in this game it wasnt very fun. Coops r the most fun, team vs team can be but i dont enjoy being killed 10times and not seeing anybody.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ July 24 2002,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I only play Coop, I only play Coop with friends, I've never had a bad Opf MP experience.<span id='postcolor'>

cause usually b4 they can complain, they get blown up by a mine placed by.....

j/k

anyway, finding a good coop server on public server is as hard as finding a needle in a haystack. ppl have different experience and so on, and it's really hard to coordinate that. however, clans tend to know each member a lot, so that is a big plus.

so if you are going to public server, don't expect much, but find a great clan to play with if you want coop.

[Kermit 0]

Why does it seem that no one who plays online goes here and vice versa?

[Placebo 28]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ July 25 2002,04:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ July 24 2002,18:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I only play Coop, I only play Coop with friends, I've never had a bad Opf MP experience.<span id='postcolor'>

cause usually b4 they can complain, they get blown up by a mine placed by.....  

j/k<span id='postcolor'>

LMAO yup and if I don't get em then Hilly's driving will

[-SW-Tybo 0]

Yeah what is the deal kermit? Does anyone know of Stoners, Radishville or MTCO, or even MOD server? On Stoners and MTCO they have Teamspeak set-up, so you can cordinate with some excellent players, maybe not all but some of them.

OFP is not CS-they are way different. True some players act like the CS metality, but that does not mean the game turns into CS. I personelly think MP is the best gaming experienve i have had gaming-period. The games are so varied and the options are vast for tactics...everygame is different. Anyway, the original poster had some good points especially about Cadet-I am kinda sick of these n00b haters out there who insist on Vet. Like many experienced players I can play with Vet fine, but cordination, activity of combat and overall fun take a hit. People are lost, can't tell who is who, shoot guys in captured enemy vehicles etc. Its just a better expereince with cadet on, no enemy tags of course. I will say the signatures left bu enemy is kinda cheap, but overall Cadet is the way to go

Thanks.

[HellToupee 0]

i like cadet in mp, i was tank driver on stoners 2 other guys in the tank the commander was giving me orders to get sum where but no target bracket would show i would have to stop look at map find out where i am, basically the commander became a passanger, se we just drove randomly around till a law got us. Vet can be good but with lots of people ur asking for trouble theres friendly fire and if sum takes an enemy vechicle he spams the chat sayin hes in it and ither he gets tked anyway or theres more than on vechile around that hes in. When we play big maps on gp with vet all coordination goes out the window people get lost new people keep asking how to find out where they are, we try to help but look at map isnt good enough and the best bit is if u want features from vet mode u can u can turn tags and stuff like that on and off.

[Harnu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On Stoners and MTCO they have Teamspeak set-up, so you can cordinate with some excellent players, maybe not all but some of them.<span id='postcolor'>

And on Radishville they have Roger Wilco set up for the server.

Get the Ip at www.radishville.com.

[Tactician 0]

If you want a good teamplay experience with all the things you've asked for, join a squad. Period. You'll thank yourself.

Some Tactician-approved squad pages:

http://www.1stbattalion8thmarines.com/

http://www.101stabd.com/

http://www.usmc-warriors.com/OFP/

http://www.stone-keep.com/

Shop around (no pun intended), you'll find something you like.