Tips on flying a helicopter?

[adonai 1]

How do you find flying the Ka-60 in A3? At least from my very few attempts, it seems to me that it flies more like a plane than a chopper? I know it's a medium bird and should not be as agile as the the LB, but even so when pushing cyclic left and aft to bank and roll into a hard turn, almost as much as would probably overstress the blades in ToH flight model, the Ka-60 almost doesn't change forward direction. Is that ok? I am no flightsimmer, all my helicopter experience has been just as a passenger :) so it might be correct for all I know. I just find it different from the medium birds in A2.

I think what the developers tried to implement with the flight dynamics is a bit more "momentum" than in arma 2; it's actually similar of sorts to toh. Theres also the fact choppers basic speed has been increased by 20-30 or so km/h; presumably in relation to the larger map sizes.

Essentially, you should understand a helicopter operates through a single point of extreme torque, it's pretty much a gliding pendulum. I feel they've taken a step in the right direction modeling this, and further corrections will definitely be extra icing in an already sweet cake imo.

I do feel however the descent and ascent rates are far too slow. There is a marked difference between the throttle ratios between arma 2 and 3 that at the very least need to be evened out.

Xbox controller scheme could be better out the box (I use a ps3 controller, so motioninjoy); then again it's for the most part fully customizable and with a little time you can get it to do what you want. It worked for me.

You've just got to manage your speed on the approach, you should start killing your speed about 1-1.5km out, come in with the nose up and the collective down (so you don't gain height) until you've bleed off enough speed then level off, approach the final 100m at 50kmh, then tip the nose up slightly as you come in and gently release the collective to neutral. It helps a LOT though if you have analogue collective control, and its 10x easier in 3rd person.

Definitely agree. I find the key to any flying is having an efficient descent profile to your lz; from noob to pro, this is the key and practicable by all. If you are newer and don't understand the full limitations of armas flight physics, you will definitely need to SLOW IT DOWN (especially in the Ka-60 and will more than likely be the same for larger choppers), keep a safe height that allows you the ability to fly for at least 2 or 3 seconds in case you're hit by some type of aa and have to make an emergency landing, and most importantly, just don't pick a hot lz to begin with. If you know there's probably alot of enemies in your area of operation, keep a 600-1000 meter buffer between you and them so your troops have some breathing room.

As far as ka60 handling since that seems most people have problems with

1. The Ka (and any other large arma bird once they're released) travels fast; with the new physics, you WILL HAVE to make inputs earlier than desired to have the same outcome in arma 2. You've got to plan your steps out

2. The key to decreasing speed with the new arma physics from steady straight flight are :

A. Rudder B. Elevation C. Bank angle D. Throttle control

The pendulum effect of choppers allows you to bleed off speed in high g turns. Normally, you would black out. In arma, that isn't modeled so no worries. By kicking the rudder toward the inside of your turn, while pulling straight back on the elevator, you will enter a tight turn that decreases speed exponentially as it travels in the circle. Couple that with idle throttle and you will see there's actually a way to get your chopper from full steam to landing speed in a spin or two. That's where proper recognition of elevation comes in. You can pick any spot out ahead of you and map out your descent turn to slow you down. Once you're comfortable with the controls and flying low, you'll be able to integrate your final descent turn and landing the bird easy, where you want it when you want it.

On further thought, I think a big problem with the main accessibility of arma 3's helicopters is the fact that it is very sensitive, and definitely lends more toward a natural feel. I personally feel the only way you could get a full "feel" for all the little nuisances (and there's PLENTY, like the little wiggle the Ka does after a tight turn) heli flying has to offer is to have some type of control input that allows you to do so. If you get a good feel with the mouse, that's great. There's still the problem of throttle control which already feels heavy; you're going to be very good at tapping the keys by going this route. Either get a joystick or hook up your Xbox controller; you owe it to yourself if you're trying to aviate amongst arma's realm. Either that or you'll get shot down by someone like me

Edited April 15, 2013 by adonai

[Kemeros 1]

Don't turn it upside down... xD New patch joke...

[NordKindchen 12]

The new patch f+++cked up the acceleratio of the little bird.^^

It has become increadible hard to lead targets now since your speeds increases from 0 to 120 in less than 2 seconds. This means the moment you aim your nose down to center a target - your chopper is allready to fast to turn left or right to compensate for any movement or misjugdement of your own.

While I really like that they fixed flying upside down - the acceleration is a no go.

Besides - little birds should be able to do barrel rolls. Is this still possible? Have to test...=/

[WCG 1]

Meh then i will probably never fly in a heli in this game...

I know what you mean. I feel the same way. I have been practicing, a bit. And I can stay in the air OK. What I can't do is (1) shoot anything, or (2) land without crashing. (I mean a hard crash, generally - instant death.) And hell, I don't even understand the terms used here! So it's hard to tell what some of you are even talking about.

Oh, well, no big deal. I spend most of my time practicing infantry maneuvers, because I'm not very good at them, either. I don't expect to ever learn to fly the helicopters, but I'll continue to practice, occasionally. After awhile, it's not much fun, and there's really no point in making this a chore. Besides, there's plenty to do in the game without flying.

I appreciate the advice, nonetheless, and I'll keep messing around with it when I have a spare minute. Thanks.

[Sargoth 0]

Tried to some landing practices today. But apparently ArmA will have non of that shit. Even the gentlest landing crashed the chopper WTF?

[WCG 1]

• Making a tight U turn will have you lower speed quickly, like before a landing.

I remapped my keys, per the various suggestions earlier, and that seemed to help, though I still haven't landed a helicopter without crashing - not once. (Occasionally, though, I'm only badly injured, not killed. Progress!)

However, I was wondering about the suggestion above. Whenever I make a tight U turn (well, as tight as I can make it, anyway), I hugely INCREASE my speed, not decrease it. I've heard this before, that tight turns will drop speed, but that's never happened to me.

So I can't seem to get close to the ground without vastly picking up speed unless I stop in midair and lower the... collective? And by the time I get anywhere close to the ground that way, I'm far, far from my landing point, having drifted backwards, forward, to one side, or all of them together. I can't get back to my landing point without picking up speed again (and, likely, getting more altitude to avoid mountains, trees, etc.), at which point I'm right back where I started.

So, if a tight turn really will "lower speed quickly," what's the trick to it? (Or, more likely, what am I doing wrong. I try to keep the nose of the helicopter up, but it seems hard to do that and turn, too.)

[Mamba211 10]

Been trying to replicate SpanishSurfers video with the tight turns and good aiming after a few hours on the editor with a chopper im struggling ,Im ok at flying in the sense of getting from A - B however trying to take out targets comparing the above vid SpanishSurfer posted im struggling .

Im pretty new to the whole joystick control system last game i played would have been microsoft sim 2005 with a Microsoft sidewinder.

I recently purchased the Saitek x52 the keys i have assigned are as follow any hints, Tips would be much appreciated on how to get some sort of control from the helis on Arma 3 when trying to hit targets.

Y axis -= cycle forward

Y axis+ cycle backward

cycle left and right no bind on them

Collective raise z axis -

Collective lower z axis +

left pedal z rotation-

right pedal z rotation+

left turn x axis -

right turn x axis +

I have tried to combine 2 actions to the one for example left pedal - left turn but im still getting the out of control feel when trying to take out a target unlike the vid SpanishSurfer posted where it seems more controlled would really like to get clued up on this stuff please be gentle to the users that have mastered this with a joystick .

Great vid SpanishSurfer.

[Mamba211 10]

Double post sorry.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Mamba211
double post

[machineabuse 11]

I think default controls with mouse and keyboard are just fine.

[WCG 1]

It's just a matter of how much practice you are going to put into it.

Practice is certainly important, but you seem to think that everyone has the same capabilities. I've probably been playing computer games longer than you've been alive, but I didn't grow up with video games, and my eye/hand coordination stinks. I never get very good at these things, even after lots of play. Depending on what's required of me, I do get better after awhile,... usually. :)

But the other part of this is that I play games for fun, and grinding isn't fun for me. Practice is OK, but I'd want to get paid to spend hours at a miserable rote task which wasn't fun at all. So I'll continue to practice, but I'm not going to spend all that much time at it. I'd rather just stick with infantry tactics, if it came to that, since that is fun. (Luckily, I don't have to walk AND chew gum in this game, huh?)

So, for me, it's not just a matter of how much practice I'm going to put into it. And even if it were, I'd just switch to a different game if this one ceased to be fun. But I don't see that happening - certainly not yet! :)

[machineabuse 11]

Woah hold up, wasn't meaning to imply anything of the sort :)

I just wanted to point out that the default controls for the helos isn't too bad as they are. I've been flying using the same controls since Flashpoint and believe you me I was total rubbish at it. I just stuck with it because I enjoyed helicopters. In all honesty my flying only started to tighten up last year when I made it a point to become a better MH-6 pilot in ArmA 2.

So that's a significant number of hours getting to where I am now with room to improve. What you don't see is the thousand crashes it took to get there hehe.

For the record I've been gaming since the age of 4, which puts me quite neatly at 27 years of gaming total. So if you've indeed been gaming longer than I've been alive I have to say that's quite a respectable feat sir! :D

Tell you what, if you can let me know specifically the things you are having trouble with, I can attempt to make a video to help you out.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Machineabuse

[WCG 1]

Woah hold up, wasn't meaning to imply anything of the sort :)

I apologize. I didn't mean to seem accusing. Unfortunately, it's easy to seem that way online, when I'm just intending to be direct.

And yeah, I'm 62, so I've been playing games for a long time. If we're just talking about PC games, though, I don't think I started until the mid-1980s. So I expect to get better, eventually. :)

[machineabuse 11]

I apologize. I didn't mean to seem accusing. Unfortunately, it's easy to seem that way online, when I'm just intending to be direct.

And yeah, I'm 62, so I've been playing games for a long time. If we're just talking about PC games, though, I don't think I started until the mid-1980s. So I expect to get better, eventually. :)

/tips hat

Sir! :)

[nodunit 397]

Practice is certainly important, but you seem to think that everyone has the same capabilities. I've probably been playing computer games longer than you've been alive, but I didn't grow up with video games, and my eye/hand coordination stinks. I never get very good at these things, even after lots of play. Depending on what's required of me, I do get better after awhile,... usually. :)

But the other part of this is that I play games for fun, and grinding isn't fun for me. Practice is OK, but I'd want to get paid to spend hours at a miserable rote task which wasn't fun at all. So I'll continue to practice, but I'm not going to spend all that much time at it. I'd rather just stick with infantry tactics, if it came to that, since that is fun. (Luckily, I don't have to walk AND chew gum in this game, huh?)

So, for me, it's not just a matter of how much practice I'm going to put into it. And even if it were, I'd just switch to a different game if this one ceased to be fun. But I don't see that happening - certainly not yet! :)

Have you considered playing on a private server with an instructor? Sometimes having a person there to explain things on the fly is of great help, especially if there are terms being used that you do not understand. If you are using the dev build I would happily do this for you, if not then I'm sure there are people that would be willing to assist you just the same.

I won't lie, flying helo's in A3 is very odd at the moment...even stranger is that I have an easier time in TKOH than I do here now that is mind boggling.

[ratszo 17]

Pilot-induced oscillation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot-induced_oscillation

Don't 'yank-n-bank' your stick. Tiny, inputs. Learn to use the mouse first without exceeding 3-5 degree angle of attack, AoA.

My current stick set-up has collective +/- on the twist; Y-axis forward+ is unmapped; Y-axis back- is as dead as i can make it. Same for yaw left/right --deaden stick inputs as much as the software allows.

Flying a helo is like balancing a spinning plate on a stick --oscillation is fatal. A spinning plate, like a rotor will alway slide or 'cut the plane' of the AoA.

Helos are inherently unstable with the aerodynamics of a frozen butterball dropped from a tall building.

But hey, try flying nose down 5 degrees, nap-of-the-earth just using analog collectives --and tell me it's not fun cresting ridges and diving into revines-- white-knuckling the stick.

Or try a combat turn 180.: Full speed, good height; stick over banking 45; nose up, yank y-axis all the way back; full analog collective up. Freelook, eyes tracking datum point off the shoulder on horizon

Slice the plane/axis down til nose meets eyes to heading, level-out.

A controled oscillation.

Ride the dragon.

[WCG 1]

Have you considered playing on a private server with an instructor?

Thanks, but I really don't think that would help. My problem is just general ineptness, I think, combined with terrible eye/hand coordination. If I ever reach a point where I can do the basics, then maybe an instructor would help.

Don't 'yank-n-bank' your stick. Tiny, inputs.

I don't have a joystick, but you've put your finger on my biggest failing. I swing from one extreme to another. Every time I try to correct a problem, I overcorrect in the opposite direction. So, for example, when I try to slow my speed, I end up rapidly flying backwards. My helicopter just alternates between undesirable states.

And if I do, finally, manage to stabilize things (without auto-hover), and slow down enough to attempt a landing, the wind seems to push me out of position. Although, even that might be due to inadvertent mouse movement, because it often takes very little before I'm swinging wildly out of control again.

I don't know if I'll ever get good enough to fly a helicopter in a game, and it's too frustrating to fail over and over again (and too boring to spend too much time practicing, especially for so little result). But I'll keep giving it a try, a little bit at a time. Believe it or not, I'm better than I was, even if I still can't land without crashing. :)

Bill

[blu3sman 11]

Now is bad time to learn flying. In current builds even slight cyclic inputs result in enormous acceleration.

[naizarak 4]

arma flight is extremely arcady, given the right control setup

basically go for the bf controls. w/s for collective/thrust, a/d for rudder, mouse for tilt and banking. never use autohover unless you actually need to hover in one place.

[furryappleseed 10]

I agree with the bf control scheme. Bf2 to be more specific. The default controls scheme is horrible.

[wok 1]

But didn't BIS say they helicopters "physics" or whatever you want to call it, is just a placeholder and they may add TKOH model to the game? So why would you want to learn how to fly if they are going to change it. I do think A3 helis are too easy to fly, you just need to be careful landing which you can learn practicing one or two days in the editor, just take off and land on weird places and repeat, over and over again. But I repeat, if you play for serious and you want to be a good pilot you should wait until the game takes a more final form before getting too much in your training.

[mk82_1_each 1]

Thanks, but I really don't think that would help. My problem is just general ineptness, I think, combined with terrible eye/hand coordination. If I ever reach a point where I can do the basics, then maybe an instructor would help.

I don't have a joystick, but you've put your finger on my biggest failing. I swing from one extreme to another. Every time I try to correct a problem, I overcorrect in the opposite direction. So, for example, when I try to slow my speed, I end up rapidly flying backwards. My helicopter just alternates between undesirable states.

And if I do, finally, manage to stabilize things (without auto-hover), and slow down enough to attempt a landing, the wind seems to push me out of position. Although, even that might be due to inadvertent mouse movement, because it often takes very little before I'm swinging wildly out of control again.

I don't know if I'll ever get good enough to fly a helicopter in a game, and it's too frustrating to fail over and over again (and too boring to spend too much time practicing, especially for so little result). But I'll keep giving it a try, a little bit at a time. Believe it or not, I'm better than I was, even if I still can't land without crashing. :)

Bill

I think a even a basic joystick would make things less frustrating. As for myself, joystick is a little more natural for control input. It might help so you can focus more on some of the other areas you have problems with. Divert some of the frustrating aspects, and put more fun factor into it.

[arziben 23]

I use a joystick with throttle, just be very, very precise and smooth at all time and always keep in mind that your collective is an important part of your movements

[nodunit 397]

Yes and no, joysticks are excellent for constant or 'varied' input as opposed to 0-100% up or down for example or a constant % of pitch and it's certainly easier to roll.

That said, it's not going to help that much right now since the acceleration is near instant (you can't use the vehicles weight and drag to you advantage which makes MANY things difficult.) You may want to wait until BI get the helo physics patched up to be more akin to TKOH or Arma 2.

Edited April 25, 2013 by NodUnit

[wxlyf 10]

You should be carefull when landing.

[machineabuse 11]

Last night's session was pretty revealing; currently it's a lot harder to land and take off from uneven ground (as it should be I think.). There is a tendency for the KA-60 to roll over on an incline latitudinal to its body but this is easily compensated for by cyclic correction and going hard down on collective.

The thing to look out for is when the helo starts sliding downhill even on full down collective, in which case you really just want to swallow your pride and try for flatter ground.

I must say that I'm growing quite fond of the current flight model.