unclear when I hit

[Smurf 12]

I do agree that the "feedback" of a hit is lacking in this game and actually most others. The people act like paper targets - the bullets seem to simply pass though them without any resistance (without any kinetic energy transferred from the bullet to the body) and they slump lifelessly to the ground. This is how a hit looks like (probably a 7,62mm or ~.308) in real life. I've seen very few games do it right. The best probably being Crysis 2 (funny, right?), where you see each hit knocking the enemy off balance. I've heard Rage did this good as well. Haven't played Crysis 3 yet.

You can't compare a SP game or shooting at NPCs with a MP game or shooting real people (bots in Arma = people, but with an AI).

Wouldn't be annoying as hell keep getting knocked back or fall everytime you get hit? It may be more realistic and all but would ruin the gameplay and gameflow.

Anyway, in A3 the character kind of have a "spasm" when get shot, it's good enough for me.

[Tulx 10]

Providing distinct feedback on hits is definitely something better left for the arcade-y shooters.

Providing a realistic representation of 7,62mm round impact on a human target at 700 m/s would be right up ArmA's alley, though. Take a look at the video I posted above. I think you won't get a more accurate example than that.

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

You can't compare a SP game or shooting at NPCs with a MP game or shooting real people (bots in Arma = people, but with an AI).

Wouldn't be annoying as hell keep getting knocked back or fall everytime you get hit? It may be more realistic and all but would ruin the gameplay and gameflow.

Anyway, in A3 the character kind of have a "spasm" when get shot, it's good enough for me.

I, for one, think that would immensely enhance the immersion.

[metalcraze 290]

I do agree that the "feedback" of a hit is lacking in this game and actually most others. The people act like paper targets - the bullets seem to simply pass though them without any resistance (without any kinetic energy transferred from the bullet to the body) and they slump lifelessly to the ground. This is how a hit looks like (probably a 7,62mm or ~.308) in real life. I've seen very few games do it right. The best probably being Crysis 2 (funny, right?), where you see each hit knocking the enemy off balance. I've heard Rage did this good as well. Haven't played Crysis 3 yet.

That video shows the bullet hit being no different from what we see in ArmA. Plus it was hitting his armor.

When bullets penetrate they cut through, not push people around like a boxing punch.

[gliptal 25]

Use STANAG mag instead

What does a NATO convention has to do with bullet feedback?

Yay!

[Tulx 10]

That video shows the bullet hit being no different from what we see in ArmA. Plus it was hitting his armor.

When bullets penetrate they cut through, not push people around like a boxing bunch.

No, in ArmA III the soldier only falls when the hit is lethal (and the new ragdolls are great), but the hit has absolutely no kinetic effect if the soldier survives the shot.

The force transferred to the body would be lower in the bullet passed through - it wouldn't knock the person down, maybe (or the shock would), but it would still be very much visible. Right now a small blood splatter is all we see - you can just keep running like you were before, unless your leg is hit.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Tulx

[andersson 285]

The kinetic effect is always less then the recoil, so don't expect any hollywood effects from that. Then if the body reacts from the pain, that's another thing.

[Tulx 10]

The kinetic effect is always less then the recoil, so don't expect any hollywood effects from that. Then if the body reacts from the pain, that's another thing.

Again, here is a real bullet impact on a soldier weighing probably at least 100kg (with full equipment). The vest took all of the bullet's kinetic energy, which made the impact even stronger, but this is usually also the case in ArmA. And this is Afghanistan, not Hollywood.

[Yairweinberg 1]

There's spasm? Didn't notice any but if there is it will solve all my problems I don't want them to fly all over the place when they are hit and I don't have any problem seeming them fall down like a rag as they die its the shot that doesn't kill them that I can't spot but the spasm thing will solve it.

People don't just keep running like nothing after they get hit by a bullet they don't fall down or get pushed but the chance the person will just keep going as like nothing happened is small and dependent on where he was hit.

[Fuse 1]

But a hit to armor isn't the same as a hit to a person. Sure, if you shoot a steel plate there is a lot of energy transferred. If you shoot a person and the bullet goes straight through then there's not much of an impact.

People don't just keep running like nothing after they get hit by a bullet they don't fall down or get pushed but the chance the person will just keep going as like nothing happened is small and dependent on where he was hit.

I thought they did, and that's why the 6.5mm was the new popular round?

[Yairweinberg 1]

I thought they did, and that's why the 6.5mm was the new popular round?

Nope they changed it because it was not lethal enough not because the enemy got shot ran like nothing ever happened than gave them the middle finger...

[adanteh 58]

It would be nice if getting hit would give more feedback to the player. Pulling gun up, twisting camera direction, falling down. There's already some effects, but combined with the different stances it would be nice that you would just fall a couple of stances down. Sometimes enemies can just keep running after you hit them. I'm not talking about insta kill or hollywood shotgun blowback, just something that disrupts the action for a bit.

[Tulx 10]

But a hit to armor isn't the same as a hit to a person. Sure, if you shoot a steel plate there is a lot of energy transferred. If you shoot a person and the bullet goes straight through then there's not much of an impact.

I thought they did, and that's why the 6.5mm was the new popular round?

1. Soldiers in ArmA wear armour as well. And even when the shot penetrates the body, it does transfer a lot of its kinetic energy to the body in the process.

2. Correct. The 5,56mm rounds have proven to be lacking stopping power over greater distances, but the soldier in the video was shot by the Taliban which were most likely using 7,62mm rounds (he was lucky the shot didn't penetrate his armour at such close range).

[Fuse 1]

1. Soldiers in ArmA wear armour as well. And even when the shot penetrates the body, it does transfer a lot of its kinetic energy to the body in the process.

2. Correct. The 5,56mm rounds have proven to be lacking stopping power over greater distances, but the soldier in the video was shot by the Taliban which were most likely using 7,62mm rounds (he was lucky the shot didn't penetrate his armour at such close range).

My understanding was that a clean penetration transferred very little kinetic energy and most of the damage was done by cavitation. The hit is likely still lethal but lacks immediate stopping power. Hits where the round fragments or tumbles transfer a lot of kinetic energy, but they also do massive internal damage and usually result in a quick kill, making the issue of feedback in a game pretty much irrelevant (seems like you would just make the impact part of the death animation that initiates the ragdoll). Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not trying to sound like an expert, this was just how I understood it to work.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Fuse

[gliptal 25]

My understanding was that a clean penetration transferred very little kinetic energy and most of the damage was done by cavitation. The hit is likely still lethal but lacks immediate stopping power. Hits where the round fragments or tumbles transfer a lot of kinetic energy, but they also do massive internal damage and usually result in a quick kill, making the issue of feedback in a game pretty much irrelevant (seems like you would just make the impact part of the death animation that initiates the ragdoll). Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not trying to sound like an expert, this was just how I understood it to work.

True, the 5.56 kills because of the so called "liquid shock effect": the liquids in the body are harshly moved by the high speed and small impact signature of the bullet (meaning high pressure), bursting blood vases and organs around the bullet hole...

That's why it takes "a while" for 5.56 to kill the target: the bullets pass through without effectively stopping the enemy on its tracks because of the low stopping power, but in a matter of seconds the target dies or suffers heavily because of the disrupted organs...

Sorry if I repeated myself, I'm just trying to be as clear as possible...

Yay!

[simon1279 53]

Well, in my language it's called "Chiudipost" (literally "post closer"), I have no idea how to translate it in English though...

Yay!

I'm Italian myself and many others veterans here, please do not make us to look like mindless tipical italian guys thanx

back on topic, you'll learn in palying to understand when you hit, or sometimes you believe to have killed, your enemy and that wounded enemy becomes your killer, this is one of the exciting aspects of the armaverse

Edited March 20, 2013 by Simon1279
orthography correction

[gliptal 25]

I'm Italian myself and many others veterans here, please do not make us to look like mindless tipical italian guys thanx

back on topic, you'll learn in palying to understand when you hit, or sometimes you believe to have killed, your enemy and that wounded enemy becomes your killer, this is one of the exciting aspects of the armaverse

He asked, I answerd: what's wrong about this?

Yay!

[simon1279 53]

He asked, I answerd: what's wrong about this?

Yay!

respect on the form you're answering

closed