silencers useless!

[ForeverOmega1989 1]

me and a friend were playing a mission and in this mission the only close by enemies were a ifrit and a few men well over 300m away and the guy whom i shot and killed was behind a hill with NO ONE else around, killed that guy then all of a sudden we got lit up. so is this a issue that's also being adressed for alpha? will the silencers be fixed where they are actually useful or will it just be purely cosmetic?

[white 1]

acctualy this sounds about right

what should be corrected is increasing the sound the weapon makes when using the silencer/supressor.

[daze23 1]

this isn't Splinter Cell dude

[Logan9773 10]

Actually, if no one else was around, say within a 100 meters, the shot shouldn't have been very noticeable, even with realistic suppressor noise. Thats what suppressors were meant for, to keep the enemy from pinpointing your firing position by sound and flash. If they didn't see their comrade fall, they probably shouldn't have known you were there. I have noticed the AI seem to be "Ultra" aware of where everyone is and some of the greatest shots ever from 3 to 400 meters away, even if they don't have scopes. AI needs to be worked on.

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

Actually, if no one else was around, say within a 100 meters, the shot shouldn't have been very noticeable, even with realistic suppressor noise. Thats what suppressors were meant for, to keep the enemy from pinpointing your firing position by sound and flash. If they didn't see their comrade fall, they probably shouldn't have known you were there. I have noticed the AI seem to be "Ultra" aware of where everyone is and some of the greatest shots ever from 3 to 400 meters away, even if they don't have scopes. AI needs to be worked on.

Yep it's true. I built a night assassination mission where I am 400 meters out from target, with the only enemy AI near the target so again 400m distance. I am prone under a bush on a moonlit starry night and the only thing visible coming from me is some grayish puffs of smoke, but when entering camera mode and flying down to the enemy infantry's location it's impossible to visibly acquire my player model or the smoke. Yet these AI instantly spin around and engage me, even though I'm suppressed leaving no muzzle flash and extremely quiet operation, and they begin firing on my position with pin point accuracy.

Really immersion breaking AI in this game.... It can either be amazing and fun, or it's a total disaster and makes you want to Alt + F4 :(

[Sakai 1]

Welcome to ArmA... Neither in 1 or 2 it worked, dont expect it to work in 3 :P

What I mean by this is, fire from 600M and the AI will find u and start to spray them mags at you...

[white 1]

Welcome to ArmA... Neither in 1 or 2 it worked, dont expect it to work in 3 :P

What I mean by this is, fire from 600M and the AI will find u and start to spray them mags at you...

suppressors/silencers only change the weapons sound to be harder to recognize, the sound is only lowered from 160db to 130db which still is very loud and would be heard from a few hundred meters on open ground.

what is wrong is the weapons sound with supressors/silencer ingame, they sound like holywood movies which is completely and utterly fake and CoD-like.

and if someone says that in the future silencers may become that way then just place plasma and laser rifles in there aswell, my guess about the future is as good as any.

[Mabe 1]

AI will spot you no matter what, only time that they wont is at a certain time at night but then again they have night vision.

[Logan9773 10]

the sound is only lowered from 160db to 130db...

Lol, no, suppressed fire is not that loud. You can fire with out hearing problems with a suppressor on the end of your weapon. I would assume being military that they are using heavier than normal bullets to bring the bullets speed to sub-sonic. And of course, you would have to use the correct barrel twist for that as well. So, outside of about 100 meters, people shouldn't hear much at all, and would not be able to pinpoint where the sound came from.

[afp 1]

Please read here how alerts works in Arma:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119209-Stealth-Kills&p=2352262#post2352262

I might add that if multiple groups are in Guard mode, they will be all alerted even if they did not see/hear you.

[liquidpinky 11]

Welcome to ArmA... Neither in 1 or 2 it worked, dont expect it to work in 3 :P

What I mean by this is, fire from 600M and the AI will find u and start to spray them mags at you...

Not entirely true, the VSS and suppressed M4 worked pretty well I thought.

Could hide under a tree and snipe into Cherno (no, not DayZ :P )all day long and never get busted with the VSS.

And the M4 was excellent for using in OA for getting in close to those radio towers in Domi.

But then, both worked well because I was mostly hitting targets in two shots or under. Firing all day long and missing will get you busted.

[Insanatrix 0]

Please read here how alerts works in Arma:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119209-Stealth-Kills&p=2352262#post2352262

I might add that if multiple groups are in Guard mode, they will be all alerted even if they did not see/hear you.

Well Alerted and knowing your location instantly are two different things though.

[white 1]

Lol, no, suppressed fire is not that loud. You can fire with out hearing problems with a suppressor on the end of your weapon. I would assume being military that they are using heavier than normal bullets to bring the bullets speed to sub-sonic. And of course, you would have to use the correct barrel twist for that as well. So, outside of about 100 meters, people shouldn't hear much at all, and would not be able to pinpoint where the sound came from.

yes it is loud, and subsonic ammo only lowers the sound another 10-15db. your problem is being used to movies as a base for reality, and trusting the sound from badly made youtube videos. 130db is a jackhammer.

http://silencertalk.com/results.htm

theres my proof.

.

Edited April 25, 2013 by white

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

And don't say badly made Youtube video as there are countless videos that sound exactly like that.

I'm not saying the suppressed weapon fire sounds are accurate in the Arma 3 alpha, they're not. They have that zip-zip sound you hear in Hollywood and arcade games. In the Youtube videos (and real life... I have hands on experience with suppressed handguns and rifles...) it's more of a mechanical movement sound than an actual gun fire. Kind of like the sound of metal sliding on metal only. That's because the actual explosive sound you usually hear from gunshots drowns out the sound of the mechanics going on in semi-automatic weapons. With the suppressor that bang is silenced considerably and all you hear is the clanking of the gun operating.

Given the AI in Arma 3 can instantly acquire my position at 400+m in the dark of night with a suppressed MXM rifle, using single shots, yeah there's something up with the AI that needs adjusting. They should be able to pull that off. A real player wouldn't be able to, these AI shouldn't be able to either.

[white 1]

And don't say badly made Youtube video as there are countless videos that sound exactly like that.

yes its an amateur video with badly captured audio.

I'm not saying the suppressed weapon fire sounds are accurate in the Arma 3 alpha, they're not. They have that zip-zip sound you hear in Hollywood and arcade games. In the Youtube videos (and real life... I have hands on experience with suppressed handguns and rifles...) it's more of a mechanical movement sound than an actual gun fire. Kind of like the sound of metal sliding on metal only. That's because the actual explosive sound you usually hear from gunshots drowns out the sound of the mechanics going on in semi-automatic weapons. With the suppressor that bang is silenced considerably and all you hear is the clanking of the gun operating.

Given the AI in Arma 3 can instantly acquire my position at 400+m in the dark of night with a suppressed MXM rifle, using single shots, yeah there's something up with the AI that needs adjusting. They should be able to pull that off. A real player wouldn't be able to, these AI shouldn't be able to either.

a supressed rifle is 130db, a jackhammer is 130db.

want to make me believe that a rifle can sound as low as a clap which is around 40-50db? prove it. show me sources from reviewers or manufacturers that measured it. i can find a ton of manufacturers that state that their silencers take off around 30db from the weapons sound.

yes the sound is changed a lot so is hard to recognize which weapon you are using or if its a weapon at all, yes should be hard to pinpoint your location, but its audible and people would turn around to look where it came from. more than 1 shot would help them pinpoint your location easily enough. and altough silencers do supress a lot of the muzzle flash it isnt 100%.

the AI is overly precise on several ocasions, that is right. ive died a lot from their first bullet after barely turning to look at me while standing from around 200m

and you can vote on it here:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=3480

Edited April 26, 2013 by white

[afp 1]

Well Alerted and knowing your location instantly are two different things though.

Actually, the way ArmA handles the knowledge about enemy means exactly this. It's somehow logical, if you consider 2 groups having radio stations, if one groups spots an enemy, it signals this to others so the location where the enemy was last spoted is recorded.

Getting allerted means the "knowsAbout" parameter about an enemy is rising, and this reflect more then enemy identification (side, rank etc) but also the last seen location.

[DaRkL3AD3R 1]

White, the chart you linked to, unless I missed it then I see nowhere on that page where they mention what distance they tested the sound at. If they held the microphone 2 feet from the barrel well then of course it's still going to sound loud. But at 100m+ the difference between suppressed and unsuppressed is massive.

Given the scenario I made, where the enemy is 400m away from me, there's no way these AI should be able to get a fix on my position in the dead of night with a loud wind blowing in the air. They would likely be able to hear the tatter of my weapon firing, but they wouldn't be able to tell where it's coming from. Let alone immediately put down effective fire on my position.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

And don't say badly made Youtube video as there are countless videos that sound exactly like that.

The video description states that the rifles are firing .22LR, which isn't exactly a loud type of ammunition to begin with.

A is a .22LR cartridge, B is a .223 Remington cartridge which is roughly similar to the 5.56×45mm NATO cartridge fired by military rifles.

Unlike the .223 Remington, .22LR was designed for shooting pests and tin cans in a potato field, not for shooting Soviet hordes and steel helmets on a battlefield.

Needless to say the .223 is somewhat louder when it goes bang.

[white 1]

White, the chart you linked to, unless I missed it then I see nowhere on that page where they mention what distance they tested the sound at. If they held the microphone 2 feet from the barrel well then of course it's still going to sound loud. But at 100m+ the difference between suppressed and unsuppressed is massive.

Given the scenario I made, where the enemy is 400m away from me, there's no way these AI should be able to get a fix on my position in the dead of night with a loud wind blowing in the air. They would likely be able to hear the tatter of my weapon firing, but they wouldn't be able to tell where it's coming from. Let alone immediately put down effective fire on my position.

if they held it 2 feet and it changes from 160db to 130db, the difference is the same 30db shown on specs from silencer manufacturers. but of course it wont be perceived as 130db after 400m, neither would a jackhammer or anything else since sound does decay, and the weapons signature is somewhat changed, but something would be heard depending if its open grounds, a city, inside a very dense forest or whatever. so they at least would look at your direction.

and at night there would be a muzzle flash (althought very diminished, the more darker the night easier would be to see it), since they probably would have a vague clue of what direction the sound came from and where you were, then they would see the muzzle flash of you firing your second shot and pinpoint your exact location.

and i agree, unless a lucky spotter didnt get your first muzzle flash by already looking around where you were, should be hard to know your exact position, even without a silencer. i also agree that the AI isnt very good at dealing with this.

ive been in a situation in which the AI walked past me while i was reviving a guy, and been in ones where the AI was standing looking at something 90 degrees from me at about 100m while i was aiming at him, then in less than 1 second he turned and 1 shot killed me. frustrating as hell i know it. there was also a funny one a few days ago, there were a few inside the water, ans one kept runnign in circles inside the water with just his head sticking out, i spent more than 2min trying to hit him from 300m and he just kept running in circles.

Edited April 29, 2013 by white