Flight Controls via Stick

[armyinf 33]

I am planning on purchasing Arma 3, I have been wondering about picking up a Flight stick, My question here is, Is it worth it getting the rudder pedals, not all seem to include it, I am a average pilot, my biggest fail as a pilot in Arma 2 is simply mouse is rather boring and not engaging, I understand BIS is using their flight model from TOH if I have read correctly, was it worth owning a flight stick for? Will the Alpha include setups to allow flight sticks? I have read up and down but havn't seen it mentioned, (I am new to PC gaming, I played Arma 2 while overseas back in 2010 and got into it then, but just been off and on as I mainly play xbox, I just upgraded computers for Arma 3 specifically so if thats an obvious answer, let the troll begin I guess... Lastly a few recommendations on what you guys/ gals have had good luck with for TOR, Arma 2 and think will be good for Arma 3, send them my way please!

[BigMorgan 11]

Just get a basic joystick with a twist-rudder. I have been using such a set up in everything from FSX to Falcon BMS to Rise of Flight for years now, and I don't feel like Arma 3 will warrant a more-advanced control system than what is necessary in a hardcore flight sim.

[nomofica 1]

Agreed. I've had the same Microsoft FFB Sidewinder 2 for the past 6 or 7 years and I use it mainly for Flight Simulator X. If the twist rudder mechanism works fine for FSX, it'll be more than enough for A3.

Edited March 1, 2013 by nomofica

[armyinf 33]

Agreed. I've had the same Microsoft FFB Sidewinder 2 for the past 6 or 7 years and I use it mainly for Flight Simulator X. If the twist rudder mechanism works fine for FSX, it'll be more than enough for A3.

Thanks for the heads up,

http://store.gameshark.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=3246&idCategory=312&scid=saiteksite Would this be overkill?

http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/6816?gclid=CL_h6aeu3LUCFQepnQod83EAAg. Or save the money and go with something likes this? As Far As I can tell, I don't see anything like suction cups or a vice grip, is this something that is necessary?

[nomofica 1]

Most people buy the Saitek HOTAS these days. I didn't even know that a joystick existed in the Cyborg line, so I couldn't tell you how it performs.

[marker 1]

I have had both of these joy sticks mate..

The second one I had first, and it was more than adequate for flying around in arma.

I upgraded to the x52, I found I could fly a lot smoother with the split throttle controls, just felt more natural.

Plus the layout for the hats and buttons were perfect for everything I could use them for.

I still have to say,if you are only planning to fly in arma then the second one is for you. If you plan to do some more flight sim stuff then spend a bit more and get a hotas...

[karbiner 11]

A joystick with twist-rudders will do just fine :) I use the Thrustmaster T16000m, cheap but very cheerfull. Having it for over an half year now and still no signs of wear and tear/deadzone issiues.

[Derbysieger 11]

Unless we get TOH flight model I won't be playing with my HOTAS in Arma 3. Arma 2 Helis (and planes for that matter) control much better with keyboard and mouse. There is just no comparison. With the TOH FM on the other hand it's better with a stick or HOTAS setup with pedals. I can do maneuvers in TOH that would never be possible with the Arma 2 handling.

[armyinf 33]

Thanks for all the information guys, I appreciate it and look forward to sling rounds down range with ya guys come the 5th.

---------- Post added at 00:40 ---------- Previous post was at 00:39 ----------

Unless we get TOH flight model I won't be playing with my HOTAS in Arma 3. Arma 2 Helis (and planes for that matter) control much better with keyboard and mouse. There is just no comparison. With the TOH FM on the other hand it's better with a stick or HOTAS setup with pedals. I can do maneuvers in TOH that would never be possible with the Arma 2 handling.

I have been reading, that supposedly we are getting the TOH FM, am I mistaken?

[Derbysieger 11]

It's something they're still planning to do but it will probably come well after the actual release. As it stands my HOTAS is getting a well deserved holiday during the alpha. I've been flying DCS: P-51D and DCS: A-10C a LOT lately I've been online almost every evening in the last two months

[armyinf 33]

It's something they're still planning to do but it will probably come well after the actual release. As it stands my HOTAS is getting a well deserved holiday during the alpha. I've been flying DCS: P-51D and DCS: A-10C a LOT lately I've been online almost every evening in the last two months

Gotcha, Thanks for the information.. If truly mouse and keyboard is the best for Arma 2, I'm doing something wrong lol!

[Derbysieger 11]

The thing is Arma 2 aircraft are very sluggish which works good with direct input from kb&m but not so great with a stick. If I apply collective in TOH I can control exactly how much I want to apply with my throttle on the hotas so I can maintain a hover or level flight. Arma 2 version only has collective up, down and no input and stick movement just doesn't translate very well. You don't get an instant reaction from the Heli if you apply cyclic in arma 2; it's just bad IMO. In TOH you get an instant reaction to every input. The helicopter feels nimble and agile and you can do all sorts of crazy stuff. Whereas if you're flying Arma 2 helis with a stick it feels very sluggish and slow and flying with mouse and keyboard gives you much more precision.

€: Stuff like this isn't possible in Arma 2:

(look how he controls the Heli in this vid. Can't do that without an advanced flight model)

As a comparison here is a good video of the Arma 2 little bird:

Notice how the controls are not as smooth as with toh and changes are much more violent.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Derbysieger

[cadmium77 16]

Dyslexsi over at Shack Tac has literally written the book on piloting in Arma and he uses the keyboard controls exclusively. However he swears by Track IR..he thinks that's indispensable.

[Derbysieger 11]

TIR is great. I'm using it not only in flightsims but also in Arma 2. So yeah, if you have 150 bucks to spend go for TIR, not a joystick or a HOTAS unless you're interested in DCS or Falcon BMS

[strych9 10]

+1 on t16000, i liked my old sidewinder. thrustmaster was the closest thing i could find that had the thumb slider for thrust. I have many many hours on it between arma and warthunder. i have no issues and couldnt be happier.

[nodunit 397]

Arma 2 version only has collective up, down and no input and stick movement just doesn't translate very well.

It does if you go into the control bindings and change "throttle" to "throttle (analogue)", then collective strength will be influenced by cyclic input.

The sluggishness comes down to weight distribution. Not to toot my own horn but mine & Franze apache have similar agility to TKOH. To the point that when I first took off after controlling the sluggy default apache, I ground my nose into the dirt, and it took some adjusting until I played TKOH for a while..afterwards it all fell together just fine.

It would be nice to see A3 birds have the agility that a fully articulated rotor system provides, at least to the level of the Light from TKOH.

Edited March 2, 2013 by NodUnit

[Ivorystate 23]

Like morgan said, just get a basic joystick. Unless you plan on using it for other flight sims it really wouldn't be worth it for one game. Unless your rich.

[Derbysieger 11]

It does if you go into the control bindings and change "throttle" to "throttle (analogue)", then collective strength will be influenced by cyclic input.

The sluggishness comes down to weight distribution. Not to toot my own horn but mine & Franze apache have similar agility to TKOH. To the point that when I first took off after controlling the sluggy default apache, I ground my nose into the dirt, and it took some adjusting until I played TKOH for a while..afterwards it all fell together just fine.

It would be nice to see A3 birds have the agility that a fully articulated rotor system provides, at least to the level of the Light from TKOH.

Does your cyclic really influence the collective strength in Arma 2? That sounds just wrong. And yeah you're right about the analogue controls but that's only for thrust and not for bank left/right etc and it doesn't control very well with a stick. I just noticed that I actually used that when I tested my HOTAS in Arma 2 and I'm way quicker and much more precise with kb&mouse. I'm with dslyexci here.

I didn't play Arma 2 much lately and didn't follow the forums at all but your mod would actually be a reason for me to go back to Arma 2

[hannibal636 11]

plain and simple, i wish the helicopter controls and response is on par of that of Microsoft Flight Simulator, X-Plane, DCS Black Shark, or Battlefield 2.... it is fun to fly helicopters in those games..

[call_911 10]

Thanks for the heads up,

http://store.gameshark.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=3246&idCategory=312&scid=saiteksite Would this be overkill?

http://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/6816?gclid=CL_h6aeu3LUCFQepnQod83EAAg. Or save the money and go with something likes this? As Far As I can tell, I don't see anything like suction cups or a vice grip, is this something that is necessary?

I currently own that Cyborg flight stick an it does the job. Pretty much covers basic controls. I also use it for DCS A10c. Offtop(kinda) I'd also recommend TracIR. Which I can't do without when flying.:)

[KeyCat 131]

The thing is Arma 2 aircraft are very sluggish which works good with direct input from kb&m but not so great with a stick.

It's all about how you setup/configure your joystick and rudder curves in ArmA 2. If you spend some time tweaking it and use analog for all axis it behaves pretty well and personally I always fly with HOTAS + TrackIR in ArmA 2.

Some joysticks/HOTAS have better software than others, for example with the TM Cougar I use it's possible to tweak each axis independent of the settings in A2 and makes it a bit easier to find the sweetspot for good responce from stick, collective and rudders (not my settings in picture below).

You don't need to buy a expensive joystick to enjoy flying helicopters in A2, just spend some time adjusting axis curves to your liking and choice of heli (i.e settings that feels good for the MH-6 may not be so good for the Chinook, use profiles). To me flying with mouse/KB just doesn't "feel right" and things will get even better when we get the advanced flight model in A3 ;)

/KC

Edited March 2, 2013 by KeyCat

[SgtTrojan 1]

Logitech 3D Pro Extreme is a good solid stick with throttle control. Great for the price.

Sent from my Ericsson T28 using Tapatalk

[KeyCat 131]

A joystick with twist-rudders will do just fine :) I use the Thrustmaster T16000m, cheap but very cheerfull. Having it for over an half year now and still no signs of wear and tear/deadzone issiues.

I haven't tried it myself but only heard good things about the T16000m and since it uses halleffect sensors for the X/Y-axis I'm sure it beats other similar priced joysticks.

/KC

Edited March 2, 2013 by KeyCat

[Derbysieger 11]

It's all about how you setup/configure your joystick and rudder curves in ArmA 2. If you spend some time tweaking it and use analog for all axis it behaves pretty well and personally I always fly with HOTAS + TrackIR in ArmA 2.

Some joysticks/HOTAS have better software than others, for example with the TM Cougar I use it's possible to tweak each axis independent of the settings in A2 and makes it a bit easier to find the sweetspot for good responce from stick, collective and rudders (not my settings in picture below).

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/images/technology_094a_012.jpg

You don't need to buy a expensive joystick to enjoy flying helicopters in A2, just spend some time adjusting axis curves to your liking and choice of heli (i.e settings that feels good for the MH-6 may not be so good for the Chinook, use profiles). To me flying with mouse/KB just doesn't "feel right" and things will get even better when we get the advanced flight model in A3 ;)

/KC

You don't think I tried to make it work? Hell I spend a few days trying to find settings that would work for me and everytime I compared it to kb&m it sucked. Maybe I just expect more from joystick controls than Arma 2 is able to deliver. Obviously I never expected DCS level quality that would be absurd but I feel without actual modding of the flight characteristics there is no way I will be satisfied with analogue controls in Arma 2. With direct input I can do everything that I can do with a stick; just faster and more precise. I'm not saying there aren't people who like to fly with a stick in arma 2 but to me the system feels like it wasn't really designed with analogue input in mind. Just hop into the DCS Black Shark or the Little Bird in TOH and you will notice a huge difference (as it should be because those are dedicated flight sims).

As soon as the TOH FM is available I will switch to my HOTAS. I'll probably have to mod it to work properly (that stiff centering spring really doesn't help if you're flying a helicopter) but that isn't a problem.

[REIZOD 10]

Wow, lots of great info here fellas. Answered a few questions I planned to ask. My fingers is crossed that Arma 3 will have good support for us flyboys.