The ultimate thread about Arma 3 anti-cheat discussion

[nuxil 2]

Nuxil !! your just a joke. you obviously don't half what your on about.

if you cant discuss in a proper way, take/give criticism or have any usefull input.

please leave this forum and never return.

[HunterUK 10]

if you cant discuss in a proper way, take/give criticism or have any usefull input.

please leave this forum and never return.

I can take critism, but its typical answer from people like yourself. And I won't be told to go away, it people like yourself who give such a negative answer to people who wish to give ideas and feed back in this forums for what ever topic its all to common here, this is what really puts people off for at times trying to help here. You sound like a real Nob head Nuxil, so you can take your answer and shove it up were the sunshine dos'nt rise :)

[nuxil 2]

im not here to start a flame war. but you obviously are.

yeah sure im a noob. im a noob at lots of things. but arma is not one of them. but sure im no expert eighter!.

since you started posting in this thread, all you have been doing is complaining about no ac shiped with the game without understanding what alpha means or what it involves.

as i said earlyer. Alpha is not the name of the game. its the stage if the game.

if you want. there is an article on the wiki explaining what it is.

i would understand your complaints if this was the final release but now your just trolling.

people like me and my negative anwers?

its not my fault people rush and buy a unfinished game and get problems. deal with it and file reports or stop playing until the release is done. "and i can promise you there will still be issues then"

what ideas,feedback or contribution have you given to this thread/forum.?? none as far as i can tell only complaints.

alot of people in this thread has told you the logic to why there is no ac in the alpha. it would be pointless as the code changes from day to day.

but you seems to ignore them or fail to understand them.

even dwarden has said. AC/Security is WIP, as in "work in progress".

and yes, you have failed to take critism.

Edited April 1, 2013 by nuxil

[Mirudes 1]

These Idiots come as a swarm to a (so far functioning) independent server and one is just teleporting to a hill nearby and starts to teamkill in the base (without a playername). Meanwhile another one rides in a vehicle over the now growing amount of respawning squad mates. While some covered cheater is trying to steal the license keys from the gamers by using DDOS-attacking or much more worse. (You all know these "lags" when cheaters are around - guess what it is!) And after all without any consequences.

These cheaters/teamkillers have a reason to do this all, they are even posting here in this forums for this reasons. Eventually they want that people leave the server and play on (weaker protected) servers, where the cheaters have the management (another clan). Eventually they cheat and teamkill, because they sell cracked games, sell stolen license keys, sell cheat programms, sell "better" arma-server-software or even have "better" (full administered) servers for hire.

But actually, these suckers don't even have to change their nickname, they feel safe, because this game engine is still full with unlogical bugs.

I think it is grossly negligent to release ArmA3 without any protection, when it is clear that all the cheats from ArmA2 are still functional. What is BattlEye worth when it cannot even give a basic protection? It is not like that the wheel must be reinvented. Use the knowledge from ArmA2. It's alpha? Come on guys, you can't be serious!

[chortles 263]

What is BattlEye worth when it cannot even give a basic protection?

You said it yourself, BattlEye isn't even in Arma 3 right now...

[ak1287 1]

You said it yourself, BattlEye isn't even in Arma 3 right now...

Hey, you knock it off with that 'logic' and 'rational thought' right now, soldier. In case you hadn't noticed, these are INTERNET FORUMS; logic need not apply.

[TSAndrey 1]

I think it is grossly negligent to release ArmA3 without any protection, when it is clear that all the cheats from ArmA2 are still functional. What is BattlEye worth when it cannot even give a basic protection? It is not like that the wheel must be reinvented. Use the knowledge from ArmA2. It's alpha? Come on guys, you can't be serious!

You can't implement an anti-cheat while the game is still in development. Even the servers aren't fully finished...

Edited April 2, 2013 by TSAndrey

[[frl]myke 14]

Hey, you knock it off with that 'logic' and 'rational thought' right now, soldier. In case you hadn't noticed, these are INTERNET FORUMS; logic need not apply.

These are the BI Forums; logic is is not only recommended but required.

[byrgesen 1]

1) Delta Force Black hawk down

2) WAR Z

I understand in what you are saying about Implementing BE at the early stage etc, But to be completely honest the Arma 3 should'nt of been sold like this early in the development. As you know it also causes problems with the clients who are buying it throwing them into disarray and getting a lot of negative feedback. Look please don't take this the wrong way, but in an Honest opinion the dev teams should of picked on so many clients to test it with various computers likes for AMD, Nividea and there different Cpu's etc and get the feed back that way. Yourselves wanted feed back and this is mine :)

Did you actually try WarZ after they implemented the AC??

And are you aware regular people are getting banned on a daily basis because of the Fair-Fight AC engine, which btw doesnt work at all.... Hackers have more free reigns then they ever had with BE and Fair-Fight will even tell people when its checking up on them, so they can stop cheating for a while and not get banned.... Its a pure BS system and its basicly banning people for being suspecious as they cant provide any kind of proof of the hacking.

If you go to WarZ forums, you will find 1000's of posts from people who have been banned for no appererant reason, and Hammerpoint Interactive doesnt give a shit.

Is that really what you want for Arma III? That is a very very good example of why NOT to put AC in an alpha, its just a waste of time. Especially the way they did it.

Like mentioned before, the game itself will change so much before then final product, so developing an AC now, would mean redeveloping it time after time, for each update... Very inifficient, expensive and unrealistic.

But please dont ever compare a serious game like this to anything like WarZ, thats just wrong..... Even when it comes to AC, as Fair-Fight is just one big HUGE joke (like the rest of the game) and does nothing good what so ever lol. Thats not a personal oppinion, thats simple facts, Fair-Fight is one of the worst AC's ever to be invented.

Ohh and fyi, if you believe its to early to participate in the testing, be my guest and walk away untill its done. Its a free choice, not like someone has a gun to your head and forces you to play the game. We were given the option to help BI improve the game at a very early state, but you make it sound like its mandetory....

I feel like i have to say this again:

Playing on open servers in an Alpha with no AC is plain stupid, so if your doing that and then comming here to complain about it, you need to change the way you play the game.

Its like buying a gun, shooting your self in the foot and then complaining there wasnt a better security feature on the gun, because you handled it wrong.

Or bying a cat and a microwave, stuffing the cat inside it to "dry it" and then suing the company afterwards, because it doenst have a label saying "DO NOT PUT ANIMALS INSDE" (did actually happen some years ago)

If we dont have an AC, we need to adapt to it, insted of constantly complaining about something thats already WIP. Common sense and logic tbh.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Byrgesen

[Mirudes 1]

So you are going to tell other people what logic is?

You just take out one sentence -out of the given context- trying to defame people with another opinion.

The point was:

You could have used BattlEye for ArmA3, because the diagnosis of cheats are equal. Its just a different path and another name for the exe-file. If BattlEye is not able to detect some/majority of cheats, it is not well developed.

What is BattlEye worth when it cannot even give a basic protection?

How logical are these masterpieces in ArmA2/3 to you?

All of it taken out of: BI must be provides the basic ANTI-TK system, not a script

When a driver drives over a friendly player, it is not considered as a teamkill - why not?

When I am commander in a vehicle, i get a negative score when the gunner is teamkilling?

Another example: __cur_mp.pbo

Do you know what that is? Do you know how old this leak is?

1. That's how it actually is:

When a teamplayer killed friendly units, he still can enter friendly vehicles like helicopters. As a side effect, all other players are running around their friendly chopper like dummies and can not get in.

Proposal:

Certainly, it's the teamkiller who has to be left outside.

2. When the "normal" player kills a teamkiller, let it be in defense or protective, you will get punished for that.

Proposal:

Let's say teamkillers are switched to a "neutral" (undeceived?) party. If one teammate is going to kill the teamkiller, there will be no negative score (Or kick/ban) for that. On the other hand, if the teamkill was accidently, the teamkiller can still get a transport in a friendly vehicle.

I was just trying to play a A3-multiplayer mission, when there was playernames with all blank spaces.

It seems so that player names like "Administrator" and "System" are security risks.

The ArmA2 cheats are highly sophisticated, and they get optimised for A3 right in that moment.

Did you mention that the pilot of a crashed chopper receives negative points for the passengers who actually died in that accident?

That is not a natural law. It's a bug since Ages. It is a result of incompetence. Why? Because it degrades a normal player down to the level of any f*cking teamkiller or cheater.

So, all of that seems to be logically for you? I feel sorry for you!

Edited April 2, 2013 by Mirudes

[byrgesen 1]

First of all, ive read the entire thread and its not out of context -_- We are talking about AC and what would be best for A3.

Second, the BE setup for Arma III is gonna be different because of all the new classes and functions, and because it "has" to be more secure.

You cant just throw BE from Arma II over here and say "Thats it, we are protected now". It doenst work like that.

And why would you? Theres no point in giving us the outdated A2 BE setup, when theres time and money to develop it to something better.

I was trying to explain WHY Fair-Fight is so crappy and why it doesnt make sense to implement AC at this time...

You just keep rambling on about logic, but do you disagree with me saying playing on public servers with no AC is stupid? Coz thats quite logical tbh.

Im not trying to pick a fight, was simply trying to explain why Fair-Fight should NOT be used in aything and why AC doesnt fit into an evolving alpha development.

Thats is what this dicsussion is all about right?

And TK'ing isnt cheating or AC, its called "griefing" and is pressent in pretty much every single multiplayer game out there. Theres another discussion for that subject so lets not deviate from the topic pls.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Byrgesen

[$able 2]

If BattlEye is not able to detect some/majority of cheats, it is not well developed.

BE detects more than other anti-cheat systems such as PB or VAC. The problem is that right now no one cares about what BE does due to the cd-key theft issue. This has been explained many times before.

[byrgesen 1]

BE detects more than other anti-cheat systems such as PB or VAC. The problem is that right now no one cares about what BE does due to the cd-key theft issue. This has been explained many times before.

Very very good point.

Dont mistake actualy cheating with key theft. They need to be handled differently and separetly.

One of the good things about this is its very difficult to steal a Steam CD-key. That would require a complete Steam account theft and it takes a little more effort then simply using a keylogger :)

Another important thing "to do" would be to enforce some kind of authentication with steam, so illegal copies cant join legal servers. That could reduce the amount of cheaters alot, simply because you would need a valid Steam account and a valid CD-key to even be able to play on a official server.

So alot of the cheaters would be "gathering" on the unofficial illegal servers, leaving the legit player alone, because they cant play on legal server with such a system.

If its even possible that is heh :)

[$able 2]

Another important thing "to do" would be to enforce some kind of authentication with steam, so illegal copies cant join legal servers. That could reduce the amount of cheaters alot, simply because you would need a valid Steam account and a valid CD-key to even be able to play on a official server.

You can be sure that the game developers will add that very soon.

[byrgesen 1]

You can be sure that the game developers will add that very soon.

Sounds promising :)

Im confident a system like that would help a great deal untill actual BE support is implemented, and after ofc.

[Tray 1]

Won't matter imo, the real anti cheat will come from third parties, as you can see with ARMA2

[byrgesen 1]

Won't matter imo, the real anti cheat will come from third parties, as you can see with ARMA2

But forcing people to buy the game and removing CD-key theft all together is a very important step in the right direction. Steam is very important in that aspect.

Its also part of the whole AC aspect, because it prevents cheating rather then spotting it and banning for it.

So if people cant steal keys, and cant use cracked copies of the game, who will buy it to get banned for cheating?

It will matter alot tbh... Its basic AC 101.

Dont get me wrong, the "true" AC is 3rd party, but BI has to do theyre part aswell, or it wont matter.

Primary objective would be to secure the keys, prevent theft and enforce proper verification of gameclients, after that we can talk actual AC engine and what it does :)

Edited April 2, 2013 by Byrgesen

[Dwarden 1125]

Won't matter imo, the real anti cheat will come from third parties, as you can see with ARMA2

which? (please enlighten us about the 'real' ones)

or you mean the ones who use BE (so no BE means no 'real anticheats' :) ) to filter properly or just scripted counter scripts ?

[WalkerDown 1]

which? (please enlighten us about the 'real' ones)

or you mean the ones who use BE (so no BE means no 'real anticheats' :) ) to filter properly or just scripted counter scripts ?

Admin tools more than anticheats... on my server i use my own "anti-cheat" that predicts the user behavior in example and it can determine when ppl teleports, when ppl spawn stuff and shit like this without using BE or scripting.. but by hacking into the game memory (like a cheat does)... :)

[Dwarden 1125]

sure, but then you can argue everyone can just DIY and we don't need the anti-cheat, steam or game at all ... just code it self ... :cool:

[TSAndrey 1]

Admin tools more than anticheats... on my server i use my own "anti-cheat" that predicts the user behavior in example and it can determine when ppl teleports, when ppl spawn stuff and shit like this without using BE or scripting.. but by hacking into the game memory (like a cheat does)... :)

You're naive if you think cheaters can't bypass that

[WalkerDown 1]

You're naive if you think cheaters can't bypass that

It's technical impossible to bypass: i don't counter-fight the cheat (method) but i'm interested into the consequence (what the cheat does), and the consequence is the "advantage" gained by cheating, so it cannot be eliminated or hidden for obvious reason. It's like someone watching you constantly while playing, there's nothing you can do to "hide" yourself, the only option you have is to not cheat or to cheat and being banned. This doesn't mean that everything works fine of course: recently there's more (tons) trolls than traditional cheaters, most of them are not interesteted to have an advantage by cheating, but they are only interested to disrupt the gameplay, so they doesn't even try to "hide" themself.. they just mass-kill, get a ban, find another key and repeat.. they have plenty of server to chose from.

This is why caught a cheater (something that i can do easy most of the times) isn't enough, but stop them to cheat is important as well, or at least give em a good reason to not cheat again after they have been caught the first time (read: pricey game; no stolen keys; account flagged as cheater; and so on...), this is not possible anymore for ArmA2, we hope in ArmA3.. so let's hope.

[byrgesen 1]

It's technical impossible to bypass: i don't counter-fight the cheat (method) but i'm interested into the consequence (what the cheat does), and the consequence is the "advantage" gained by cheating, so it cannot be eliminated or hidden for obvious reason. It's like someone watching you constantly while playing, there's nothing you can do to "hide" yourself, the only option you have is to not cheat or to cheat and being banned. This doesn't mean that everything works fine of course: recently there's more (tons) trolls than traditional cheaters, most of them are not interesteted to have an advantage by cheating, but they are only interested to disrupt the gameplay, so they doesn't even try to "hide" themself.. they just mass-kill, get a ban, find another key and repeat.. they have plenty of server to chose from.

This is why caught a cheater (something that i can do easy most of the times) isn't enough, but stop them to cheat is important as well, or at least give em a good reason to not cheat again after they have been caught the first time (read: pricey game; no stolen keys; account flagged as cheater; and so on...), this is not possible anymore for ArmA2, we hope in ArmA3.. so let's hope.

If you look at the previous page you will see i said:

Another important thing "to do" would be to enforce some kind of authentication with steam, so illegal copies cant join legal servers. That could reduce the amount of cheaters alot, simply because you would need a valid Steam account and a valid CD-key to even be able to play on a official server.

And a BE dev answered:

You can be sure that the game developers will add that very soon.

So its just matter of time before theres will be some verification to stop people from joining with invalid keys. :)

That will do so much for cheating, the first BIG step towards awsome AC really.

But we cant all sit and write our own server code protection, and if yours is so awsome why dont you hand it over to BI so it might become a configurable default option?

Help them help us :)

[WalkerDown 1]

But we cant all sit and write our own server code protection, and if yours is so awsome why dont you hand it over to BI so it might become a configurable default option?

Help them help us :)

My "anticheat" is nothing more than a hack (i'm surprised that BE didn't banned me yet after more than a year of usage.. but it's just because i'm the "only" one using it..), there's no "magic" into it, nothing that couldn't be implemented natively to assist the server admins. Having or not having these tools isn't a matter of skill, it's a decision: we asked for more admin tools by years already, nor that is something new > what you cannot fight with anti-cheat can be fight by humans... BUT having the right tools or it will be just randomly guessing: who's the script kid now?

[white 1]

sure, but then you can argue everyone can just DIY and we don't need the anti-cheat, steam or game at all ... just code it self ... :cool:

thats what he just did imho. we all want stuff to be properly made from start, but when we cannot get it, ppl endup makign it themselves outta frustration. and ppl needing to code their own anti hacks says a lot about how well BE works in the first place.