The ultimate thread about Arma 3 anti-cheat discussion

[nuxil 2]

Any developers here that can answer when it is planned to bring in battleeye?

There is no official statement that they will use Battleye. so assuming they will use it is only speculation for now.

Only statement i have seen is that, security & Ac is wip. so we just have to wait and see what they will do.

In my opinion they would be fools if they got rid of Battleye. i would think PB is out of the question. so it would be down to BE or VAC. "just my speculation"

BE is a far better choice than VAC. VAC has no administration tools. "No Rcon", "No Script Filter". This alone makes BE superior to VAC for this game.

VAC might be good for other games. just not ArmA.

[white 1]

enter any populated dayz server with BE and you will find a hacker after a while.

i stopped playing because i literally encountered hackers every single day, even logging on different servers. the only somewhat playable servers were private ones with an admin that would rollback and ban everytime a script kiddie killed everyone. at least for dayz that wont be a serious issue anymore on the stand alone. but in arma 3? ill probably just play on locked servers with friends.

afaik BE did nothing.

[nuxil 2]

enter any populated dayz server with BE and you will find a hacker after a while.

Enter any game online such as. Cod, MW, BF3 etc. and you will find a hacker after a while.

afaik BE did nothing.

This sounds like a lack of proper filters. or lack of how set them up. or outdated ones. or worse. dont understand how to use them.

Let it also be said that there is many admins who uses addons for their own benefits. i have several times heard about admins who go around banning & kicking people, because they didnt like the player who was on the server.

But thats another story.

[WalkerDown 1]

As I said, public flagging doesn't mean shit unless the cheater is popular. And I think most of his Steam friends already know he is a cheater anyway!

As YOU said doesn't count much coz it is YOUR opinion (accompained by a bunch of dubious assumption).

While saying that BE bans = VAC bans is simply a lie, and this is not an opinion, it is fact.

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

There is no official statement that they will use Battleye. so assuming they will use it is only speculation for now.

Only statement i have seen is that, security & Ac is wip. so we just have to wait and see what they will do.

They cannot avoid of using BE, because of scripting and filtering and remote console, since they have no time (or interest) into developing an in-house solution for it.

What we're discussion here at this point is to implement VAC as an additional deterrent to the cheaters, since BE apparently is not enough (nor that VAC is the solution, but it cannot cause more damage).

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

Enter any game online such as. Cod, MW, BF3 etc. and you will find a hacker after a while.

They are much less disruptive than in a game like ArmA, because of the (scripting) engine.

In BF3 there's surely a bunch of cheaters, but you can just switch to another server and there you go, no pain.. it's a matter of seconds.

In ArmA it is pretty different: a single kid can cause a lot of troubles, and the gameplay (due to its realism) is much more slow than an arcade FPS like BF3 or COD. A script kid can kill everyone on the server making the server empty (in the long run this could means force the admin to shut down it because of frustration), and the users to restart again from scratch for another run, hoping that this time there won't be any cheater around (a round in BF3 could last "minutes"; a round in ArmA could last hours...).

This sounds like a lack of proper filters. or lack of how set them up. or outdated ones. or worse. dont understand how to use them.

With the proper bypass i could leave absolutely no trace in the logs, i could login into your server and kill anyone repeatly every 2 hours just to annoy your userbase, forcing you to password it or to get rid of it. You have no way to know it was me.. you can only guess it. This is the reality of ArmA2, and it will be the same in ArmA3, the only potential limit to the cheating will be the deterrent of the Steam account (and so the keys), since there won't be a florid keys black market (no more $1 stolen keys), so a ban means tenth of euro lost (hopefully).

[TSAndrey 1]

This is the reality of ArmA2, and it will be the same in ArmA3, the only potential limit to the cheating will be the deterrent of the Steam account (and so the keys), since there won't be a florid keys black market (no more $1 stolen keys), so a ban means tenth of euro lost (hopefully).

No, it won't. There will always be a trace, and you can GUID ban the cheater. Unless the cheater wants to rebuy the game every day, he will eventually quit cheating on your server.

---------- Post added at 12:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 ----------

As YOU said doesn't count much coz it is YOUR opinion (accompained by a bunch of dubious assumption).

While saying that BE bans = VAC bans is simply a lie, and this is not an opinion, it is fact.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact. If public flagging is your biggest argument for using VAC, we have a serious problem...

[nuxil 2]

They cannot avoid of using BE, because of scripting and filtering and remote console, since they have no time (or interest) into developing an in-house solution for it.

What we're discussion here at this point is to implement VAC as an additional deterrent to the cheaters, since BE apparently is not enough (nor that VAC is the solution, but it cannot cause more damage).

VAC is just a joke. it can almost not detect anything.

i almost feel sorry for the people who will get Dayz standalone, you think that arma3 alpha got lots of hacking without AC. hah. just wait and see.

VAC as a additional, i dont mind that. but i dont have any faith in it. if i get the option to turn it off i most likely will.

One of the big problems now isnt that BE doesnt work. infact it does it job verry well, Its more relate to idiots downloading every link that says. Arma2/Oa/Dayz hack. they install it and gets their Key stolen.

The amount of stolen key is enormous.

So even if they get banned on a server. they will just change the key and continue as before until they get banned again. you can get stolen key for less than 5$ :mad:

There is a weakness in how keys are handled in Arma since they are not bound to anything.

The key theft should be resolved since arma3 will use steam and your key is bound to your account. it will help a bit.

this will reduce the amount of hacking/cheating alot. i mean ALOT.

i see alot of people blame BE for not working and it sucks etc etc. but that verry common when they dont understand how things work.

its too easy blaming BE for all the issues that arma2 have. when inface its not BE's fault at all.

Edited March 19, 2013 by nuxil

[WalkerDown 1]

No, it won't.

Please read again what i wrote, i said that cheaters (and the methods of cheating) will be probably the same, since the engine didn't changed much, but we can hope on the fact that there won't be a florid key black market due to Steam. So our biggest hopes are not into the best anti-cheat, but we count on the fact that the cheater cannot come back so easy like today. Surely a good anti-cheat would be better than nothing.

It's not my opinion, it's a fact.

It will be a fact when you'll be the last human on this planet (technically neither in that case, because there's a probability of other life forms in the universe, with a different opinion than yours).

If public flagging is your biggest argument for using VAC, we have a serious problem...

It's one of the additional deterrent, the other argument could be that VAC works better into detecting the non-scripting cheats (ie: memory reading and manipulation), but this is only a speculation, until we try it on ArmA3 we don't know, for now we only know about the VAC ban flagging, that surely exists (despite your opinions).

---------- Post added at 13:03 ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 ----------

VAC is just a joke. it can almost not detect anything.

i almost feel sorry for the people who will get Dayz standalone, you think that arma3 alpha got lots of hacking without AC. hah. just wait and see.

DayZ SA will probably have a stripped down script support, or it will be severly limited client-side, so the most of the annoying hacks will gone.. surely we'll continue to have the ESP, auto-aim and shit like this, like in any other FPS.

i see alot of people blame BE for not working and it sucks etc etc. but that verry common when they dont understand how things work.

its too easy blaming BE for all the issues that arma2 have. when inface its not BE's fault at all.

Indeed, we discussed about this already.. but knowing about this situation, shouldn't BE devs (that are working with BIS by a while already) ask them for more support and integration? They shouldn't continue to blame the engine taking what they got.

[TSAndrey 1]

It's one of the additional deterrent, the other argument could be that VAC works better into detecting the non-scripting cheats (ie: memory reading and manipulation), but this is only a speculation, until we try it on ArmA3 we don't know, for now we only know about the VAC ban flagging, that surely exists (despite your opinions).

We already know that VAC sucks at detecting ANY kind of cheats, while BE has been proven effective.

Edited March 19, 2013 by TSAndrey

[trichome 10]

Having been a server admin for some years now and used most AC's out there. I'll be happy to see BE continue to watch over Arma 3. While all AC's have there problems for Arma 3 BE is by far the best choice.

No AC is going to be 100% perfect but with good admining and BE you can't really go wrong.

[WalkerDown 1]

We already know that VAC sucks at detecting ANY kind of cheats, while BE has been proven effective.

1) Who's "we"... you and..?

2) So you secretely tested VAC on ArmA? Is this another of your universal opinions? :)

3) No, unfortunately BE is far to be "effective" to stop the cheating in ArmA (it doesn't means that other anti-cheat will be more effective tho): stop cheating is different than find/ban cheats and cheaters (please, understand this important difference before replying).

[chortles 263]

DayZ SA will probably have a stripped down script support, or it will be severly limited client-side, so the most of the annoying hacks will gone.. surely we'll continue to have the ESP, auto-aim and shit like this, like in any other FPS.

Rocket has talked about this a bunch, it's basically Suma writing "RVDayZ" (alternately, "RV3.5" / "Arma 2.5") to be a lot more server-side than client-side, though there's other intended benefits besides anti-cheat.

[TSAndrey 1]

1) Who's "we"... you and..?

2) So you secretely tested VAC on ArmA? Is this another of your universal opinions? :)

3) No, unfortunately BE is far to be "effective" to stop the cheating in ArmA (it doesn't means that other anti-cheat will be more effective tho): stop cheating is different than find/ban cheats and cheaters (please, understand this important difference before replying).

By "we" I mean every smart gamer. Do I need to test VAC in Arma? VAC sucks in normal games (normal conditions), why do you think it would do better in Arma under even worse conditions?

BE does all it can to stop cheaters in Arma, and unfortunately, Arma will always have cheaters since it has modding and scripting! No anti-cheat will change this, but BE is the best solution.

[WalkerDown 1]

By "we" I mean every smart gamer. Do I need to test VAC in Arma? VAC sucks in normal games (normal conditions), why do you think it would do better in Arma under even worse conditions?

BE does all it can to stop cheaters in Arma, and unfortunately, Arma will always have cheaters since it has modding and scripting! No anti-cheat will change this, but BE is the best solution.

You forgot to add: "in my opinion".

While our opinion is: it's better to have both aboard.

(with our/us i mean me and my cat, she's a exotic shorthair and a pro-feline-gamer)

[nuxil 2]

While our opinion is: it's better to have both aboard.

still your opinion. i doubt you sit and discuss this with your cat, if you do im sure its a monologue. :rolleyes:

VAC is a free , whats the term people say.. "you get what you pay for" . oh no wait you dont pay for VAC. no wounder its so bad.

little to no fundings to the developers who tries to keep it up to date.

Edited March 19, 2013 by nuxil

[ht-57 0]

Unfortunately unless you play with a "known" group of people on a "known" server with admin, even then there's always one or two guys u can't touch...makes me say mmmmmmmmmmmmmm? . Say it isn't so but your not stop'n the hackers!

[WalkerDown 1]

still your opinion. i doubt you sit and discuss this with your cat, if you do im sure its a monologue. :rolleyes:

VAC is a free , whats the term people say.. "you get what you pay for" . oh no wait you dont pay for VAC. no wounder its so bad.

little to no fundings to the developers who tries to keep it up to date.

VAC is not free, VAC is a value added tool for who decides to go Steamworks, and Steam (and so your steamwork game) is not free, you pay a share (in certain circumstances it's even more expensive than traditional retail distribution). It's like saying the lamps on your car are free... no they are not, they are included into the price.

[tilen 1]

I'm for VAC. Haven't encountered a cheater/hacker in a VAC-supported game yet. And banning such people from joining VAC-secure server? What's there not to like?

[ht-57 0]

Haven't encountered a cheater/hacker in a VAC-supported game yet. And banning such people from joining VAC-secure server?

All due respect but the only thing that A3 has going for it is that its not that popular.....yet.... how do u prove you haven't seen a hacker w any of the anti cheats running? heres a lil somtin that u might b interested in...put "aimjunkie" in your googally bar. BTW u missed the st patricks day sale for the A3 aimbot.

heres a A lil sample from a prior hacker

http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield3/comments/t7201/im_a_hacker_and_i_have_some_information_for_the/

yah I know its bf3 but this same thing is applied to A3 and every other fps title u can think of!

[tilen 1]

All due respect but the only thing that A3 has going for it is that its not that popular.....yet.... how do u prove you haven't seen a hacker w any of the anti cheats running? heres a lil somtin that u might b interested in...put "aimjunkie" in your googally bar. BTW u missed the st patricks day sale for the A3 aimbot.

heres a A lil sample from a prior hacker

http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield3/comments/t7201/im_a_hacker_and_i_have_some_information_for_the/

yah I know its bf3 but this same thing is applied to A3 and every other fps title u can think of!

I was not referring to ArmA 3 as the game, as far as I'm aware, does not have any official Anti-Cheat measures enabled yet. I meant games like Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead 2. Games that I've played a lot and haven't come across anyone cheating in them while I've seen cheaters in other PunkBuster protected AAA titles such as Battlefield 3.

My experiences with VAC are purely positive.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Tilen

[nuxil 2]

VAC is not free, VAC is a value added tool for who decides to go Steamworks, and Steam (and so your steamwork game) is not free, you pay a share (in certain circumstances it's even more expensive than traditional retail distribution). It's like saying the lamps on your car are free... no they are not, they are included into the price.

comparing to car lamps?

No.. VAC is verry much free for developers/game companies who deside to go steamworks. they can include VAC into their game without extra costs. so its AC that cost 0$ to add to the game. meaning no extra costs. i dont know about you but, that sounds verry much free to me when the prize would be the same with or without it for the companies.. "not talking about you as a user here"

Another problem with VAC is that once a user/player has been flagged. it may take weeks before the actual VAC Ban kicks in.

And some other stuff found on wikipedia that will raise an eyebrow.

VAC2: Over two weeks in July 2010, approximately 12,000 owners of [i]Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2[/i] were banned when Steam updated a DLL file on-disk after it had been loaded into memory by the game
VAC2: In January 2011, owners of [i]Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2[/i] or [i]Call of Duty: Black Ops[/i] were banned due to their computers being infected by the trojan Win32/Spyeye.H.
...

I have had so much issues with the steam client.. i would not be surprised if steam desided to VAC ban me for a some obscured reason :p

[tilen 1]

The reason VAC bans, or any effective bans for that matter, are delayed is also stated on the wikipedia article that you've read.

[nuxil 2]

well. imo its not an advantage allowing people to use the same hack for weeks before they get banned. imo its a disadvntage. but thats my opinion.

i would rather see that hack blocked strait way. making the cheater go spend yet another 20$ on a new hack that has to be written.

[h=2][/h]

[Binkowski 26]

I have never had an issue with Battleye and it seems to be working just fine for me. On the contrary, I have had many problems with Punkbuster and VAC. Mainly Punkbuster. But regardless on what anti-cheat software you use, there's going to be hackers. Nothing will change that unfortunately.

[WalkerDown 1]

comparing to car lamps?

...Comparing something that is only apparently "free": you pay Valve for Steam, and you get VAC if you decide to go Steamworks, you don't get VAC "for free", you're paying for it already (whenever you decide to use it or not): VAC is NOT "freeware".

Another problem with VAC is that once a user/player has been flagged. it may take weeks before the actual VAC Ban kicks in.

This is not a "problem", this is a strategy (used by BE as well and many others...): if you get immediately banned, you'll alert the community and only few cheaters will be caught, while silently flagging and then releasing a mass-ban you will get in the net alot more fishes. It also helps those cheaters to live in the paranoia of not knowing if they are banned already.

Edited March 20, 2013 by WalkerDown

[Leon86 13]

well. imo its not an advantage allowing people to use the same hack for weeks before they get banned. imo its a disadvntage. but thats my opinion.

i would rather see that hack blocked strait way. making the cheater go spend yet another 20$ on a new hack that has to be written.

[h=2][/h]

the delayed bans might slow down development of cheats, hard to test if a new hack is detected or not.

anyway, a3 might have both vac and battleye.