Challenging Game? Where?

[maxzim 1]

I completed the campaign in about 4-5 nights of 4-6 hours each.. then I tried strategy mode with random island settings.

So most of my experience comes from other games, not this one, since I didn't spend any other time in it.

I'm trying to find a challenge, so I set the strategy mode to maximum dificulty. I had the least resources, and islands.. and the enemy had maxed out settings.

Sank the carrier within the first attempt on one of my islands. Took maybe 15-30 minutes. The AI-logic is so brilliant, he decides to park near one of the only islands he doesnt own, reducing the choices for me to find and attack him of course.. and he "didnt" run like a scared little girl as I began to pick off his main gun, followed by his engines, and then his flak guns.

I was using main shell gun that you get for starters.

Where's the challenge?

The other problem with the game is physics. Just take a look at either carrier while they are setting a waypoint. The carrier will instantly rotate to face the enemy (direction of waypoint) or warp to a new direction which completely removes any similarity to using tactics to arrive upon the enemy's weak side where his guns arent facing you. So when I found that I could do it also.. it evens the playing field, so both participants are running some kind of cheesy arcade moves on each other.

It reminds me of the ending scene in the recent 2012 movie "Battleship" where they dropped anchor and spun the ship to face the aliens.

If this game ever gets multiplayer, without the needed fixes, it will be a shame. I hope the devs understand the reason for this post is to bring light on a problem, not bash their game. I work in a software company doing QA - testing - and I've also been a volunteer beta tester for the largest military grade ballistics game world for over ten years. Battleground Europe - WWII Online.com, and I have ten years experience driving their Destroyers killing real players. Lol.

Edited October 14, 2012 by maxzim

[tortuosit 486]

Maxzim, enemy behaviour, especially a weak enemy carrier has been criticized in length; maybe have a look through the subjects here in this forum, there must be a thread about it...

EDIT: I think this is the most important thread about the issue:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?140826-Boring-enemy-Carrier-AI

[instagoat 133]

I agree, the game is barely a challenge right now. At the same time, the enemy carrier can capture Islands in a hurry (apparently even Islands where it isn´t present at, as mentioned in some threads and tickets on the CIT). It´s a bit wonky right now.

A pity, because the core game is tremendously fun. To the point where I was daydreaming about it without noticing at first.

As it is, it is "almost a classic". With a bit of work, it can turn into a proper classic already.

[maxzim 1]

After going through this forum initially while beginning and completing the campaign, (looking for workarounds to issues I ran into) I was made fully aware of other player opinions. I stated above the short length of time it took for me find and kill the enemy carrier in a fully maximized difficulty situation. These are my experiences, not those of anyone else.

...has been criticized in length...

Every player that criticized it has a vote. Every player that didnt criticize it also has a vote.

I used my first post to vote. I dont need permission from a failed attempt to justify the statistics on any outside group of payers or players to sway me or anyone else from using a vote as intended.

Every developer would be a piss poor developer if the total number of negative or positiive votes were eliminated while coddling them by telling them they have heard enough of one kind of comment or another.

Let's hope the devs never hear this: "Dont pay attention to all the people who know whats wrong with your game! - Just keep pushing the shovel ware and let the bean counters do your thinking for you!"

Maybe "you" should go back though all the posts to notice that I am not duplicating, spamming or voting on this more than once (regardless of other's post counts) and then keep your advice to yourself if it comes across as trying to tell me what to do, how to think, or vote, in some roundabout way.

Edited October 14, 2012 by maxzim

[ToxLaximus 1]

In beta2 the carrier launched all its vehicles once you got near it, those were tough battles.

[anton-korduan 10]

In beta2 the carrier launched all its vehicles once you got near it, those were tough battles.

This sounds great. I startet with Beta3 - so never had this experience.

Hope also that the comming patch arrives soon AND includes this "enemy carrier strength theme".

Where's the challenge?

You got the right words.

It's weird: I am about to finish the campaign but I see me hesitating, not to finish it too early. Because: I feel a fear to start the long awaitet strategy game ... just not to get really deeply disappointed. If I make the same experience, that the enemy carrier is still so weak and un-intelligent, then the callenge could be gone... maybe forever.

I dont' want to take care of the "big bad" enemy. I did it graciously in Beta phasis - ok. But now it's "real", its official and I play such a strategy game because I want exactly that: a challenge. If this is lost... everything is lost.

So very thanx for the additional supporting here whith your professional background, maxim.

Edited October 14, 2012 by anton-korduan

[ElectroCarrier 1]

This sounds great. I startet with Beta3 - so never had this experience.

Hope also that the comming patch arrives soon AND includes this "enemy carrier strength theme".

You got the right words.

It's weird: I am about to finish the campaign but I see me hesitating, not to finish it too early. Because: I feel a fear to start the long awaitet strategy game ... just not to get really deeply disappointed. If I make the same experience, that the enemy carrier is still so weak and un-intelligent, then the callenge could be gone... maybe forever.

I dont' want to take care of the "big bad" enemy. I did it graciously in Beta phasis - ok. But now it's "real", its official and I play such a strategy game because I want exactly that: a challenge. If this is lost... everything is lost.

So very thanx for the additional supporting here whith your professional background, maxim.

Well you can make the carrier much more challenging if you have time to do it yourself. Reading the script-code for the carrier, he actually do attack you only in one case (if he has nowhere to go) due to what I call a tiny bug.

I changed that single line of code it is about and increased his "attack-awareness"-radius. You see, the code for launching all mantas, all walruses and other stuff already exists but it is not called when you would like it to do.

Since I have not asked for a permission to release a mod I probably wont do that for a while. But I will make a personalized experience anyway at the meantime.

Here you can see three images when the enemycarrier attack me with all his got...(Yes I die in that fight). He even turns around and hunt me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1klo7610g9b1p0/Enemy_carrier_attacking.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uszysbrk82uu5ge/attack3.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n7crmo0mjc2blkw/Attack1.jpg

So there is no reason to give up hope on the game yet. :)

/J.

[anton-korduan 10]

Well you can make the carrier much more challenging if you have time to do it yourself. Reading the script-code for the carrier, he actually do attack you only in one case (if he has nowhere to go) due to what I call a tiny bug.

I changed that single line of code it is about and increased his "attack-awareness"-radius. You see, the code for launching all mantas, all walruses and other stuff already exists but it is not called when you would like it to do.

Great! This gives me much more hope... now it's on BI to release Patch 1.3 (or so).

If it will last too long for me I come back to your solution, changing the script.

But I dont' really like to have this additional efford... (Don't know how complex this is and what software I need - have to check this and read about. Not fun.)

[jureidinim 10]

Well you can make the carrier much more challenging if you have time to do it yourself. Reading the script-code for the carrier, he actually do attack you only in one case (if he has nowhere to go) due to what I call a tiny bug.

I changed that single line of code it is about and increased his "attack-awareness"-radius. You see, the code for launching all mantas, all walruses and other stuff already exists but it is not called when you would like it to do.

Since I have not asked for a permission to release a mod I probably wont do that for a while. But I will make a personalized experience anyway at the meantime.

Here you can see three images when the enemycarrier attack me with all his got...(Yes I die in that fight). He even turns around and hunt me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1klo7610g9b1p0/Enemy_carrier_attacking.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uszysbrk82uu5ge/attack3.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n7crmo0mjc2blkw/Attack1.jpg

So there is no reason to give up hope on the game yet. :)

/J.

@ElectroCarrier -

Is that the same change you mentioned in the scripting forum?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?141067-Mod-Script-Findings/page5

I tried that change and he still runs away.

I unpacked using the CarrierTools; made the change as you listed, repacked and put the new file back in place of the old one (just renamed the old one).

Did i miss a step?

I will try it on a new game.. i was using an old save game - dunno if that makes a difference.

---------- Post added 10-17-2012 at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was 10-16-2012 at 10:35 PM ----------

@ElectroCarrier -

I will try it on a new game.. i was using an old save game - dunno if that makes a difference.

Nevermind.. I confirmed it - It needed a new game to take effect.

Awesome!! I had my first real battle with the enemy carrier using this change you made.

I chased after reports of the enemy carrier attacking my stockpile island and then another - i never caught up.. he was always gone by the time i reached.

That was until the third report came in. Timewarp activated to chase... and then timewarp interrupted... and holding my breath to see if the enemy carrier will run as normal... Not this time.. he turned and engaged!!

Enemy carrier strafed me then turned to chase opening up with his deck guns. Then it launched its drones and mantas at me. Big aerial battle with my mantas....

Anti air guns blazing. At the end, my carrier is dead in the water with everything damaged but slowly repairing.

Enemy Carrier docked his remaining mantas and sailed off with some damage too. I am hoping that the damage and mantas he lost will not magically be fixed but will actually stall him for awhile.

But still - what a difference this small change makes to the game.

Thanks ElectroCarrier - definately improved game with one small change. Looking forward to what else can be done as the modding grows.

[Suranis 1]

very interesting. I think I;'ll try this scrip myself. I actually find just taking the islands to be really good fun but hell beefing up the enemy carrier is definatly a plus. thanks

[tortuosit 486]

Is there an easy way to apply the mentioned fixes, especially the one by ElectroCarrier? My time is low and I didn't find the .h file...

[jureidinim 10]

At this point - no i don't think there is an easier way to do this. It has to be done by unpacking the files using the CarrierTool program and manually changing that one line (i believe its the smallest .cc file that has the AI scripts - not at home now to confirm).

It doesn't improve the carrier's strategy play - but at least it makes it worrisome when you run into him.

[Dajunka 10]

To many games these days all about challenge and more challenge and even more challenge, It doesn't matter if it's a game of turd throwing, as long as it's challenging.

What happened to the days were they made, and we played, games that were fun and enjoyable and most of all, entertaining? Challenge was a after thought, if that.

[disorder 1]

To many games these days all about challenge and more challenge and even more challenge, It doesn't matter if it's a game of turd throwing, as long as it's challenging.

What happened to the days were they made, and we played, games that were fun and enjoyable and most of all, entertaining? Challenge was a after thought, if that.

Games have always been a mix of difficulties over time for various ages and demographics. Hard is a relative term. I suck at platformers like Mario but I'm good at shooters like Unreal series, for example. One person's hard is anothers easy.

Also I tried the mod and wasn't sure it was working, the enemy carrier still ran away. Not sure if I had to start a new game to get the mod to trigger though.

[jureidinim 10]

Games have always been a mix of difficulties over time for various ages and demographics. Hard is a relative term. I suck at platformers like Mario but I'm good at shooters like Unreal series, for example. One person's hard is anothers easy.

Also I tried the mod and wasn't sure it was working, the enemy carrier still ran away. Not sure if I had to start a new game to get the mod to trigger though.

Same thing happened to me - a new game seems to fix it. I did see him still run on one occasion, but more often than not, with this change, he will stay and fight.

[H4mster 1]

Is there an easy way to apply the mentioned fixes, especially the one by ElectroCarrier? My time is low and I didn't find the .h file...

I bundled it with my mod as it was just stuff you C&P from the forum, check the walrus AI mod.

Also, to see if the mod installed right press K during a game, a message in red will appear in the centre, small text, and then some credited names.

Its always best to start a fresh game after any changes to the game with mods.