Black hawk down

[the_real_chaser 0]

hi guys

Do to some internal problems and outfalling personal i have to make this thread!

We the Black Hawk Down ´mod need urgently new modelers and skinners some people how can make good and working confic.cpp!

Short description:

!! This mod is based on a True story !!

The Mod is playing the invasion on somalia in 1993 when US forces moved into somalia to capture the high Leader of the gi habid clan to restore democaticy in somalia !! BUT THEY FAILED badly more information on Black Hawk Down a mod for OPF this page is also in english!!

if somebody is intressted to join us as a member or co worker please post here or the_real_chaser@freenet.de or ICQ 135228390

Thankx Chaser

[MDRZulu 0]

Correction: I think you mean the Habr Gidr clan.

[Vepr 0]

cool man

[Vepr 0]

aint this the Black hawk down mod nr.235?

[CrunchyFrog 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">aint this the Black hawk down mod nr.235?

Yeah probarly...

I dont think the OFP engine supports CQB like that, what happended... a really large city, and LOTS of somalies...

[Jester983 0]

Well, sorry to hear that. I wish i could help but i have no skills in what you are looking for.

Im sure someone will help you out.

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (the_real_chaser @ June 29 2002,22:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hi guys

Do to some internal problems and outfalling personal i have to make this thread!

We the Black Hawk Down ´mod need urgently new modelers and skinners some people how can make good and working confic.cpp!

Short description:

!! This mod is based on a True story !!

The Mod is playing the invasion on somalia in 1993 when US forces moved into somalia to capture the high Leader of the gi habid clan to restore democaticy in somalia !! BUT THEY FAILED badly more information on Black Hawk Down a mod for OPF this page is also in english!!

if somebody is intressted to join us as a member or co worker please post here or the_real_chaser@freenet.de or ICQ 135228390

Thankx Chaser        <span id='postcolor'>

Failed badly? Wait let me guess...you're European ain't ya?

It was the U.N. who partly failed, not the U.S. alone. However many goals were achieved, mainly that of saving a lot more people from starvation. As for the actual mission show in the movie "Blackhawk Down" while Aidid was not captured, many of his top officers were. In addition considering the odds the U.S. forces faced, combat casualities were relatively light while Somali casualities were extremely heavy. The goal of that mission was not to hold ground but to grab the targeted members of Aidid's clan and pull out. Unfortunately it resulted in signicant casaulties. Regardless most of the mission goals were met and U.S. forces faught extremely professionally in some of the fiercest urban combat since the Vietnam War. The mission was however no doubt a mortal blow for the whole operation. The one video on CNN showing the bodies of U.S. soldiers being dragged through the streets and mutilated was enough to end the entire mission...so goes the power of television and perception management. At the end of the day there were no real winners except for those who were spared from starvation (and the warlords who gained power).

At any rate, I would be very disappointed if your MOD is just an attempt by some anti-American Europeans to show how horrible us yankee captalists are invading poor innocent 3rd world countries. I hope that it honors the memories of those who perished on both sides of the conflict.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[NVA Killer 0]

actually, the mission you are basing it off was not a failure technically, it was to capture his top leutenants not him, getting them would hopefully lead to getting him(well it was to get his top LT's from what rangers and MB say) and they got the top LT's but they traded them for Mike Durant.

also try the OFPEC forum, you might have some luck there

[Serapis 0]

Doesn't anyone remember what happened to the first Blackhawk Down mod? As I can recall, some of the mod staff had asked some questions about the battle in the official BHD forum (Some of the real BHD survivors were members of that forum). To say the least, they weren't very enthusiastic about it being put into a game, so the modmakers cancelled the mod out of respect.

If you want to make a BHD mod, don't expect any help from the official forum.

[MDRZulu 0]

They wont be happy about the new delta force game for X box I think it is that is based on that. I wouldnt be either because they will portray it very poorly I can already tell its inaccurate by the pics I saw of it.

[UrbanMonkey 0]

LoL the real chaser, the Rangers and Operators on October 3 and 4 didn't fail. They captured the designated people (all 24 of them, except three died on the convoy). But they did get the people they were told to. But they did fail to capture Aidid himself, basically the whole reason for them being there. Yeah all these people were getting starved by Aidid, he starved people to show he was in power. 28,000 soldiers from many different nations were sent to Somalia, 20,000 being US Marines, to restore order (Operation Restore Hope). The fighting stopped, the food was distributed, but once the majority of those soldiers left, it started up again, people were not getting the food. So the US reacted by sending orginally a small delta squadron to snatch Aidid, and Army Rangers later.

In their overall mission while there, to snatch aidid, they failed. Remember the Operators and Rangers had six previous missions where they abducted more of Aidid's Clan members without any serious casualties, or serious shooting. This time they went into the bakara market area, the "turf" of Aidid's clan. ALSO, it wasn't only the his clan that was shooting at the americans. It was civilians who heard on Aidid's radio station that they wanted to convert all somalis from muslim and bring american democracy. Throughout the fight, militia men had megaphones and they were shouting "Come out and defend your homes!" So the Americans were outnumbered. Originally a 150 man force goes into the city, and then in the massive rescue convoy, the amount involved were more around 500. Out of that , 18 Rangers and Delta Operators died, and 2 soldiers of the Army's 10th Mountain Division who was based at the Stadium in the northern part of the city.

If you say though that that particular mission was a failure, think again. These americans came out with 18 deaths, and around 80 wounded. Considering they were against basically everyone with a weapon in that area of the city, and neighboring areas, thats pretty damn good. If I was a veteran of the "Day Of The Rangers" I would'nt be too happy to see someone make a mod about what happened. The XBOX game coming out is made based on the movie probably, which is pretty unrealistic compared to Mark Bowdens book. Mark Bowden did help make the movie, but they had to "hollywoodize" it to make it more interesting, since realism doesnt always make for a good game or movie, which I can understand. But if you make this mod I would expect it to NOT include any real names. Please honor those who were part of this, and those who fell fighting there by not using their names.

[timmy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Serapis @ June 29 2002,09:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Doesn't anyone remember what happened to the first Blackhawk Down mod? As I can recall, some of the mod staff had asked some questions about the battle in the official BHD forum (Some of the real BHD survivors were members of that forum). To say the least, they weren't very enthusiastic about it being put into a game, so the modmakers cancelled the mod out of respect.

If you want to make a BHD mod, don't expect any help from the official forum.<span id='postcolor'>

are you sure that was ofp, i think there was a situation like that for a bhd mod for ghost recon. It was canceled because some of the makers of the mod contacted some people who were in the battle or had family members in there, and were rudly turned away, so in respect for the victims familys, they didnt make it.

But maybe your right, and it was ofp.

[MDRZulu 0]

They contacted the families... what dumbasses Im sure that made them happy.

[NVA Killer 0]

na, it was someone who posted pictures of TJJ's delta force addons and SOAR helicopters on a BHD movie forum, and it had people from the real mission, and they thought it was a bit disrespectful or something, i read the topic in that forum.

[bugkill 7]

the_real_chaser,

    ok, i respect your wishes in wanting to make a mission for a game based on a real actual mission, but your first post really bothered me. first, you don't seem to have your facts straight about what actually happened that day, by calling it a failure. that mission was carried out and completed, but at a cost, not a EXTREME cost, but a cost none the less. you have to understand that at a time when americans were not used to american soldiers being in harm's way and getting killed, 18 dead american soldiers sounded like 2,000. as a soldier (army paratrooper) i saw it differently and i felt that the fight was lopsided and the somoli's got decimated. 18 dead in that type of fight is truly nothing from a military standpoint given the circumstances, but to the civilian who did'nt give a damn in the first place, it is a failure. that is why civilians should kick themselves in the ass, because they should've be more aware and supportive of the armed forces before we lose our lives or when tragedy strikes (9/11). i feel no sympathy for those that have fallen. they were warriors and they died a warriors death, they died doing what soldiers are suppose to be doing and possibly getting killed in a firefight is one of them. it was the damn politicians that failed and whenever you send soldiers to do a mission, you don't end the mission until the mission is complete. TF160 should have been allowed to finish the mission, especially after the events on oct. 3-4, because it only showed weakness in the hearts and minds of the american people, not the american fighting man. the only thing that bothers me is some of these rangers reactions to the whole thing. i respect them highly, but some of them really need to shut their mouths and stop whining about how "some of their friends died for nothing", what! they died for you and all the other men on that operation. they died in combat, not drunk driving or a training accident (which we have alot of), they died a soldiers death. granted, the politicians would not see the mission through, but that does'nt make your fellow soldiers' death less significant. it made me pissed off to see and read some of these rangers talk like that and made me question their effectiveness and why in the hell they signed up to be rangers in the first place, was it for the black beret (it's tan now and they cried about that) or just to be called "elite". in spec ops, you will get asked to do things that are not entirely good, as a soldier it is not your place to ask "why are we here?", but instead its "what must i do!", they get the missions that conventional units don't do, the down and dirty missions. they know all this, but a hand full of them sounded like a bunch of draft dodging hippies after this fight and warriors don't do that. i just wanted to get that out in the air and as a real soldier, i can say what i want on this subject, because i'm serving right now at this moment. so, the_real_chaser, if you gonna make a mission about TF160, it would be better to make it a backdrop and use the circumstances in recreating the battle. using real names and all that is a waste of time, make up other scenarios and new missions. try and be original, don't copy the same formula like all the other bandwagon jumpers are doing after one viewing of the movie (which was a good movie, but watered down). also, ask and do research before you go off and release something that is like a hollywood production. realism and accuracy is what alot of guys are looking for in this game, please maintain that standard. well, i'm sorry for the rant about the rangers, but i'm passionate about being a soldier and it pains me to see soldiers talking like civilians, especially when it concerns fellow comrades that lost their lives for them, not for a cause or the american flag, but for them.

[USSoldier11B 0]

Well said Miles, I see somebody knows their military history.

[PitViper 0]

It should be alright as long as you use fictional names out of respect for the deceased.

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bugkill @ June 30 2002,10:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the_real_chaser,

-snip-

but that does'nt make your fellow soldiers' death less significant. it made me pissed off to see and read some of these rangers talk like that and made me question their effectiveness and why in the hell they signed up to be rangers in the first place, was it for the black beret (it's tan now and they cried about that) or just to be called "elite". in spec ops, you will get asked to do things that are not entirely good, as a soldier it is not your place to ask "why are we here?", but instead its "what must i do!", they get the missions that conventional units don't do, the down and dirty missions. they know all this, but a hand full of them sounded like a bunch of draft dodging hippies after this fight and warriors don't do that. i just wanted to get that out in the air and as a real soldier, i can say what i want on this subject, because i'm serving right now at this moment. so, the_real_chaser, if you gonna make a mission about TF160, it would be better to make it a backdrop and use the circumstances in recreating the battle. using real names and all that is a waste of time, make up other scenarios and new missions. try and be original, don't copy the same formula like all the other bandwagon jumpers are doing after one viewing of the movie (which was a good movie, but watered down). also, ask and do research before you go off and release something that is like a hollywood production. realism and accuracy is what alot of guys are looking for in this game, please maintain that standard. well, i'm sorry for the rant about the rangers, but i'm passionate about being a soldier and it pains me to see soldiers talking like civilians, especially when it concerns fellow comrades that lost their lives for them, not for a cause or the american flag, but for them.<span id='postcolor'>

I dunno...I was a soldier also, and while I agree on most of what you said and about how they had a soldier's death it's a death none the less. Most real soldiers I know don't look forward to a "soldier's death" unless they have a death wish. Most soldiers I know have families and loved ones that they want to return to. I think that they have the right to whine all they want after a horrific battle like that. It was their buddies that got killed and many were pissed because they were pulled out and not able to complete the mission.

However overall they faught as they were trained and did a very professional job overall. However they were also lucky that the Somalies were such crap gunmen who just sprayed fire and were high on khat most of the time. A more formidable opponent would have most likely given them much higher casualties. At any rate, I think that unless you are a combat veteran who has faced similar circumstances that's it's a low blow to criticize those young men just because they feel a little bitter about being pawns in a political game.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[bugkill 7]

miles teg,

that is just my point, if they felt bitter, they should have kept it in the family, not spilling their guts to CNN or other news channels. when you become a ranger, delta, airborne or leg infantry, you know that you will fight battles or wars that are along political lines. if you can't stomach it, then you don't need to join or even discuss it afterwards. i can tell you this, if i ever get a chance to get into combat and i lose some buddies, i damn sure will not question the validity of their deaths or share my political views to the media. we are adults and we volunteer for this, there is an understanding of what will be asked of us and sometimes it may not be pretty. the media don't care about us, they want to hear that soldier talk about how horrible it is and how they were played for fools and used as pawns, when it is a bunch of BS. the media have their own agenda and they love drawing correlations to vietnam, but this is not vietnam. we are not draftees, we are professional soldiers and we know what the job asks for from us. i respect and understand the pain that those guys may feel, but they don't help matters by spreading it to the world. you do the mission and drive on. i will leave with this, when i was in infantry school the DS said to us to "look to the man to your right and to your left and remember that at any given moment that man may die in combat. you are infantry soldiers and this job demands you to put your life on the line when the orders are given. if any man should fall, you will not stop until the mission is done, mission first! always", politics don't matter when you are soldier, following orders and completing the mission is all that does matter.

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bugkill @ July 01 2002,11:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">miles teg,

      that is just my point, if they felt bitter, they should have kept it in the family, not spilling their guts to CNN or other news channels. when you become a ranger, delta, airborne or leg infantry, you know that you will fight battles or wars that are along political lines. if you can't stomach it, then you don't need to join or even discuss it afterwards. i can tell you this, if i ever get a chance to get into combat and i lose some buddies, i damn sure will not question the validity of their deaths or share my political views to the media. we are adults and we volunteer for this, there is an understanding of what will be asked of us and sometimes it may not be pretty. the media don't care about us, they want to hear that soldier talk about how horrible it is and how they were played for fools and used as pawns, when it is a bunch of BS.

-snip-<span id='postcolor'>

Yes that is true, but you have to remember that these soldiers bitching are ex-soldiers now. As far as I know all of the ones that talked so much to the media were all out of uniform and civilians when they did so. When you are discharged you can say whatever the hell you want. You are no longer under any obligation or code of honor or whatever.

Many Gulf War soldiers (ex-soldiers) likewise complain bitterly to the media about their health and how the DoD doesn't listen to them about Gulf War Syndrome and about how they were forced to take experimental drugs, ect.. ect...

That is their right once they are a civilian and that is why as far as I am concerned they have earned their right to complain all they want now that they are out of uniform.

When I was in uniform by the way I also was very outspoken about DoD policy concerning the usage of experimental drugs on soldiers. However I was very careful on how I voiced my complaints and did so in a proper manner through my chain of command rather then go to the media or something. I also had a perfect service record for 8 years. In a situation like Somalia, likewise I would have done what I was told to do to accomplish the mission and would have not have gone to the media afterwards while still in uniform. Instead I would raised hell within the chain of command and with the proper officers (not in front of the other troops which would undermine morale) in order to make sure that screws ups didn't happen again. If you know how to work the system, you can get things changed in the military. It may not earn you brownie points for promotion, but it earns you respect.

But once that uniform comes off you can say whatever you want about the military, your unit, or your government.

What this has to do with the BHD MOD I don't know. I just hope that when it's made it's a good one and not worse then my BHD mission.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[XtremeX19 0]

if they aint gonna b happy bout this mod, then theyre not gonna be happy bout the game being made bout it

Source: Computer Gaming World July 2002 issue. forgot page #

[SS_Wonder_boy 0]

this game might not make em to happy either http://www.novalogic.com/games/DFBHD/

go there and see what i mean

[Pvt. Jackson 0]

As long as it's tasteful. This isn't something that happened 50 years ago, to people that will never play this game.

[NVA Killer 0]

that BHD game will suck so bad....i love BHD, huge fan, but i won't buy this game

[Platoon Ablaze 0]

Serapis are the so called real survivants got rights and make money on that event?? So we can jail any movie's makers for insulting survivants, families and so on; for any movies showing past war events.

So if the way is to make profit with "my dad,son was an hero" and whining on forums to say how the comon crowd would be ashamed of talking, wanting more informations, or just make a game relating the story via OFP, all that is very pathetic.

First you could ask a pardon for every Russians AI units you have killed in OFP, contact their families, cause it could be based on real caracters who knows.