Weapon posturing

[onlyrazor 11]

Crysis 2 tried the laser instead of iron sight thing, and it sucked. I want my iron sights, especially since it is possible to use non-scope sights with NVGs.

[Psychomorph 1]

No. An IR Laser gives away your position to all enemys with NV Gear. Automatically turning the IR Laser on would be desastrous.

Well that's the whole point. The IR laser would be only activated when aiming (pressing the aim key) in the NVG mode, otherwise they'd be off at all times. I did not mean that they are activated automatically when you're switching to NVG's.

Crysis 2 tried the laser instead of iron sight thing, and it sucked. I want my iron sights, especially since it is possible to use non-scope sights with NVGs.

Not sure if Crysis 2 is a good reference point for a properly implemented IR laser system. In real life they use it that way and it works, why not in the game? It all comes down to a proper implementation. The deciding element are not the features, but how these features are implemented.

[onlyrazor 11]

Still, removing the player's ability to enable the laser and automating it instead just takes away player faculty. If anybody wants to use an IR laser, let him turn it on at his own risk. No point revealing yourself every time you try to aim down your sights because you have NV equipment on.

[Psychomorph 1]

Still, removing the player's ability to enable the laser and automating it instead just takes away player faculty. If anybody wants to use an IR laser, let him turn it on at his own risk. No point revealing yourself every time you try to aim down your sights because you have NV equipment on.

It is activated by the player, only with the use of the aim key instead of a an extra key, but I understand your second point. If we have some veterans here who can explain how this stuff works, than it would be good to hear them. If they say that there is no effective way to aim sights and they always have to use the IR laser, than I win. If they say that there are situations where they indeed use the sights and the IR laser in other occasions, than you win.

Edit: So if you can use both ways with NVG, than what about a compromise? The IR laser key does actually not activate the IR laser, but switches you to the IR laser aiming mode. That means that you (point the gun forward and) activate the laser when using the aim key. If you switch back to the sight mode, than you aim with the sights and the IR laser stays off.

Ok, I see further problems. What if using scopes? The question however remains, do you even use scopes with NVG's (I don't think so)? And even if you use a NV scope, do you even need the IR laser then? I guess we need someone with exprience to resolve this.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Psychomorph

[Tonci87 163]

Or why not just keep it simple with a key to activate/deactivate whenever the player wishes.... -.-

[mr.g-c 6]

Holster Pistols and lower them like in the tactical videos posted on first page - about time! :-)

[rye1 21]

Keep it to player because if it was whilst aiming then the scout would be hella pissed off!

@Mr.G-C Lowering pistols? Where? :D

[Wolfstriked 11]

This is something I posted about in the past here.My idea was to lower the weapon down from center though instead of the lowered weapon being slightly offset to the right.I will look for my posts and link it here if I find it.

Another thing though not exactly related to this idea but has to do with weapon positioning.I have this pet peeve when in first person view and the weapon seems tilted to the right.To me it just looks wrong like that and I think it would look so much better rotated to the left instead.The problem I see that could be causing this is that it seems the character is leaning to the right slightly and so weapon leans slightly to the right also.Is it possible to lean the weapon left to compensate for this??

And one more thing,is it possible to have this low ready stance triggered everytime you move.So anytime you move the weapon drops to low ready position and to bring it back up you press fire and the weapon snaps back up and begins firing right away.Now if you want the extra 1/4 second reaction time it takes to bring the weapon up and then firing you just hit Rmouse and the optics come up.I may be off base here and this idea is bad due to a reason I do not see yet........

Edited August 25, 2012 by Wolfstriked

[rye1 21]

That might not be a bad idea. SWAT 4 implemented the same feature with collisions. It would have to work with body alignment, i.e. if I stepped out and leaned just off the wall it should bring up the weapon so I can engage. But at the same time that would allow you to use it whilst moving which would be great, one of the things that is needed. This is what I mean below.

I haven't noticed any rotation of the weapon? Pictures or video appreciated. I think I get what you mean but can't remember it. It may change with sensitivity adjustments or so on.

[Corvinus 35]

Just finished reading the thread and I have to say that I completely agree with Psychomorph's and metalcraze's ideas of weapon handling. I myself had similar idea and wrote about it in the latter part of this post and in this post. I think the first minute of this

(yes, trailer for MGS 4) can serve as a good example of such feature from the first-person perspective. As you can see, if it's done right, the lowering of your weapon is not only realistic, but also quite aesthetically pleasing (it looks ultratacticool, at least).

[Wolfstriked 11]

I haven't noticed any rotation of the weapon? Pictures or video appreciated. I think I get what you mean but can't remember it. It may change with sensitivity adjustments or so on.

Nevermind me.:cool: I just watched a new Gamescon video and just love the weapon positions coming to us in Arma3.That and the scope view is smaller and I am very happy camper.Any word of the devs looking into the OP?This has been mentioned in past here on the forums but I never see the suggestion get anywhere.Just would like to know if the devs even consider giving us a weapon low ready.

[Psychomorph 1]

Just finished reading the thread and I have to say that I completely agree with Psychomorph's and metalcraze's ideas of weapon handling. I myself had similar idea and wrote about it in the latter part of this post and in this post. I think the first minute of this

(yes, trailer for MGS 4) can serve as a good example of such feature from the first-person perspective. As you can see, if it's done right, the lowering of your weapon is not only realistic, but also quite aesthetically pleasing (it looks ultratacticool, at least).

Thanks to you and others for the agreement. I'm aware that many people cut on that topic in the past already. It is great that I'm not the only one, because it shows that the community wishes for this. And it's cool the moderators didn't merge that thread with some existing suggestion threads.

Also yes, the reason I ask for this stuff is not because it's just realistic, but because realistic details have a higher level of aesthetics and are very satisfying to experience. Realism = Immersion (my point of view).

Any word of the devs looking into the OP?This has been mentioned in past here on the forums but I never see the suggestion get anywhere.Just would like to know if the devs even consider giving us a weapon low ready.

As a realist (no pun intended) I wouldn't count on that. I'm sure BIS likes the idea of a more accurate 1st person reapresentation of weapon postures, but it may not be as easy to implement. Not just from a technical perspective, but not to alienate gamers, because not everybody might understand why that rifle is not pointed forward like in most games. Unfortunately generic game design is a bad teacher. And now that BIS tries to attract new gamers, a more realistic approach to guns may be considered an obstacle.

I am still certain that it can be done without to overcomplicate the system and controls and have it very intuitive and confortable to handle and hope to see it in ArmA3.

[Wolfstriked 11]

As a realist (no pun intended) I wouldn't count on that. I'm sure BIS likes the idea of a more accurate 1st person reapresentation of weapon postures, but it may not be as easy to implement. Not just from a technical perspective, but not to alienate gamers, because not everybody might understand why that rifle is not pointed forward like in most games. Unfortunately generic game design is a bad teacher. And now that BIS tries to attract new gamers, a more realistic approach to guns may be considered an obstacle.

I am still certain that it can be done without to overcomplicate the system and controls and have it very intuitive and confortable to handle and hope to see it in ArmA3.

I think players will very quickly grab what is happening.Just a quick press of the fire button to raise weapon back up and two quick presses of fire to rapidly bring weapon up and then shoot.I think an automatic lowering of weapon to low ready anytime a movement is called for would suffice here and is easy to keep from over complicating.When you run it lowers all the way down and when you press to walk it can raise to the low ready position at which point if you desire you press fire weapon button and it rises to the ready position.When moving and you press fire to raise the weapon it stays raised until you stop moving.This way you remove the button needed to raise and lower weapon as its automatically happening which will improve immersion ten fold as it looks off to see a whole squad pointing weapons at each other constantly.Devs???;)

[metalcraze 290]

No need for extra keypress even. Just look at Rye's video - the guy readies weapon really fast, it's almost instantaneous - so one key press and the weapon is readied and fired. However you can hit RMB and bring optics up and then use LMB to fire.

That way the first case is more of a "blind" fire when you suddenly run into the enemy, while the second is the usual approach when there's no hurry.

[chortles 263]

Tuthbetold, I wouldn't find "single LMB to ready-and-fire-at-once" any more immersion breaking than the existing ARMA 2 system where you end up needing two buttons (Shift for walk speed/raise the weapon then LMB to fire).

No idea if

adds anything to the discussion, but for what it's worth the time on that was a claimed 0.42, the moment at 0:36 is a claimed 0.48, and the one at 0:44 is a claimed 0.46; with the optic at 1:16 it's a claimed 1.15. For the pistol, at 2:14 it's a claimed 0.39, at 2:27 it's a claimed 0.38, at 2:54 it's a claimed 0.43, and at 2:59 a claimed 0.45; no time is given on the pistol with optic (the optic rail is mounted on the weapon's underbarrel rail).

[Wolfstriked 11]

No need for extra keypress even. Just look at Rye's video - the guy readies weapon really fast, it's almost instantaneous - so one key press and the weapon is readied and fired. However you can hit RMB and bring optics up and then use LMB to fire.

That way the first case is more of a "blind" fire when you suddenly run into the enemy, while the second is the usual approach when there's no hurry.

I agree one key press is most likely optimal.