[SP] The Battle of Tora Bora (Deep Recon)

[h34dup 148]

Update: v0.91 now up on Armaholic!

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=17216

Liked the map you used. Nice to do something on a less used map.

Good job!

Thanks, I don't really mind how popular the map is, as long as it's stable, realistic and detailed enough. I'm very picky, and it's a shame because so many great islands just get cut when I'm considering a new scenario because of one detail or another. Right now, my favorite islands are Aliabad, Hazar-Kot, ToraBora and Namalsk.

I'm now thinking about what scenario to do next. Thinking either a CIA/DEVGRU sniper/spotter thing, or a recreation of Operation Anaconda in Hazar Kot (conveniently modeled after the site of the battle there, though muuuuch smaller).

Edited July 21, 2012 by h34dup

[jonstyle 49]

Nice map!

At the first objective, where you're tasked with blowing up the cache, what are you supposed to blow it up with? :j:

[katipo66 94]

Hey h34dup...

I really like it so far, its nice to play missions without a one hour intro scene!

McNools Tier One Operators are perfect for it along with ToraBora as a location, i also like the time choice... dusk heading into night, cool transition in Arma.

To be honest im still only just into the first objective and think ive cleared that? but anyway i liked the flow of enemy units, it didnt feel like 100 militia have just spwned now kill them all type scenario, they seemed well spread.

The reason why i really like it though is recently ive been setting up this type of infiltration missions in the editor, especially on Aliabad, So its nice to see how someone who knows what they are doing does it.

The ATV with M107 has no ammo? or maybe/probably because im using ace..

I know its a good mission if i want to go back and continue it, which i do, so hopefully will be back with more (and useful) feedback. Thanks! :D

[h34dup 148]

Nice map!

At the first objective, where you're tasked with blowing up the cache, what are you supposed to blow it up with? :j:

Glad you are enjoying it so far - check the house for an explosives cache, a large IED placed near the giant pile of ammunition is sure to get the job done...fun to watch the entire house get blown to smithereens too, just make sure to pull your guys back to a safe distance.

Hey h34dup...

I really like it so far, its nice to play missions without a one hour intro scene!

McNools Tier One Operators are perfect for it along with ToraBora as a location, i also like the time choice... dusk heading into night, cool transition in Arma.

To be honest im still only just into the first objective and think ive cleared that? but anyway i liked the flow of enemy units, it didnt feel like 100 militia have just spwned now kill them all type scenario, they seemed well spread.

The reason why i really like it though is recently ive been setting up this type of infiltration missions in the editor, especially on Aliabad, So its nice to see how someone who knows what they are doing does it.

The ATV with M107 has no ammo? or maybe/probably because im using ace..

I know its a good mission if i want to go back and continue it, which i do, so hopefully will be back with more (and useful) feedback. Thanks! :D

Thanks a lot for the feedback, I'm glad you like it so far!

Re: Intro- I figured I'd try to bake the intro into the playable portion, since the player has a bit of a ride before they reach the AO. It's also pretty close to the distance from Ali's EA HQ/TF11 TOC to the AO in real life (according to a map I referred to).

Re: Unit placement/patrols- All units are placed manually and have set patrols with wait times, etc., although the placement of the waypoints and chance of the unit spawning is random in some cases. There are definitely holes in their positions, which can be found by collecting either of 2 enemy maps hidden in the scenario. In real life, many of the bunched up Al-Qaeda and Taliban camps were decimated by the CIA/ODA coordinating air strikes before the player's unit, TF11, was even deployed, so it made sense that many of them would be spread out.

Re: ATV/M107- check the ATV's cargo, there is some ammo in there. I may actually add it to some of the backpacks on the ATV in the future as part of an update perhaps.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Civies present a real problem. When I see a dude in a turban sprinting straight for me, my first thought is "bomb", and I shoot him in the face. Then my squad mate shoots me in the face, heals me, shoots me, repeats... indefinitely. Lol. So far, I love the atmosphere of this mission. It's perfect. Just wish there was some way to shout "stay back". :P

Edited July 24, 2012 by TheCapulet

[h34dup 148]

Yeah if anyone knows of a good script that can be implemented to keep civies from running around like idiots just because they see someone with a gun, please let me know! This is the kind of thing I was thinking an FSM would be good for, but I'm not there yet as a scripter.

Anyway, you don't have to worry about any cheap tricks like suicide civies or IEDs in this mission (although you will use an IED to complete Phase 2), in fact you can technically complete the entire thing (excluding the HVT bonus objective) without firing a shot (not counting IEDs and Satchels used on objectives).

Good to hear you dig the atmosphere, I do try to wrap everything up into a cohesive experience. Give Op. Razor's Edge (linked in my sig) a try if you like this one.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Will do. Btw, I'd be interested in doing voice work or other recording work if you need it for this mission.

[Cyberide 1]

Yeah if anyone knows of a good script that can be implemented to keep civies from running around like idiots just because they see someone with a gun, please let me know! This is the kind of thing I was thinking an FSM would be good for, but I'm not there yet as a scripter.

Hey h34dup, you might be interested in this...

Civilian Interaction Module

Cheers.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Cyberide

[h34dup 148]

Will do. Btw, I'd be interested in doing voice work or other recording work if you need it for this mission.

Interesting. I'll be in touch via PM in the future, not sure what my plans are just yet.

Hey h34dup, you might be interested in this...

Civilian Interaction Module

Cheers.

Ah thanks, I remember coming across this and wondering if I did incorporate it, that other people would need to have it too (assuming it is installed and needs to be present as @CIM and also have @CBA working). This looks amazing, but it seems above and beyond any interactions I'd want the player to have with the civilians in this scenario-- most civies in the area during the op in real-life were believed to be sympathetic to Al-Qaeda, so you would imagine the operators would want to avoid contact. There may be a way to script all civilians to force "Safe" behavior and "Limited" speed unless they hear gunshots.

Also, I never encountered the behavior TheCapulet reported when he lit up civies - that a team mate kills and injures the player, and then heals and kills again in a loop. The ROE in the briefing does not state to avoid firing upon civies (again, since they were thought to be on AQ's side), which means that any civ that obstructs or threatens the mission in any way is to be considered hostile. When completing Phase 2 with the giant IED, I almost always end up killing a couple of bystanders (CIM would be cool for ordering them away from the blast radius).

I did have Independent EA troops in my own squad fire on me when I would board a cleared OPFOR M2 Mil Offroad, though. Both cases are strange and shouldn't be happening, regardless of civies running around like crazy.

Anyway, yeah I may experiment with CIM/CBA as an optional version with more add-ons or something, thanks for linking it, I almost feel like it would be perfect for either of a couple scenarios I have planned for the future too. It comes down to whether or not the people who are actually downloading and playing my scenarios (a modest number as of now) have CBA installed or if they are willing to download it in order to use it if not.

[metalcraze 290]

I suggest you put the weapons in the briefing into weapon crates instead since you have them in the starting building anyway - so it will be possible to switch the weapon without restarting the mission.

Naturally put ammo for the weapons there as well.

Also add smoke grenades.

[h34dup 148]

I suggest you put the weapons in the briefing into weapon crates instead since you have them in the starting building anyway - so it will be possible to switch the weapon without restarting the mission.

Naturally put ammo for the weapons there as well.

Also add smoke grenades.

Can add some smoke shells and satchels. I did initally add most of the worthwhile weapons from TF11 TOC to the briefing selection, along with a few decent RU weapons, I'll have to revisit this and make sure everything is consistent-- is there a specific weapon/loadout you were referring to that you had to restart the mission? I did try to keep it consistent enough, but if I missed something I will definitely tweak it. Thanks for playing and providing some feedback!

[h34dup 148]

Hey by the way, if you guys like the mission please do me a huge favor and rate it on Armaholic! I will not self-rate, but I am willing to beg for ratings from y'all.

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=17216

Thanks!

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

Rated. Will rate the rest as I get time to play through them.

As for CBA, it's always running for me anyways, since JSRS requires it. I imagine most would be in the same boat.

[zonker3210 1]

First and foremost, you did a wonderful job on this mission, h34dup! I've always thought that the Tora Bora terrain was severely underutilized by the A2:OA community and it's nice to see a well-designed mission for this locale. I did encounter a few issues while playing the mission but they're pretty minor and I'm not sure whether all of them can really be called issues...might have been user issues (PEBCAK!) or quirky, one-off things. Anyway, here goes:

• Once I got my hands on a vehicle with a mounted M2, I was able to clear 80% of the villages *very* quickly, as the opfor AI weren't too responsive until they were actually getting fired upon...and by then it was typically far too late.
  
• The M107 attached to the ATV was a nice touch. Unfortunately, I somehow managed to lose my other gun while pulling out the M107. I checked the ATV's gear listing and the surrounding area - no joy. Ended up restarting from a previous save point. As I said, this might have been the result of a user error. Still, I'm curious whether anyone else encountered a similar issue.
  
• While I declined the support from the additonal ODA 572 units, I took advantage of the indigenous support offered by the Eastern Alliance chief. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that there was an action available called "Thank And Assure" after the leader offered me his two best fighters. In fact, I didn't even notice the action until I was dropping the guys off on my way to the TOC toward the end of the mission. Not a major issue but I think that a cut-scene and/or a scripted dialogue might be a better approach rather than requiring the player to manually activate the secondary action.
  
• Kinda related to the above, I seem to recall that there was some sort of mention of having completed a hidden, optional objective. I think this message came up after I called the "Thank and Assure" action near the end. Anyhow, I don't recall seeing the Tasks screen updated to include the completed objective. Not a big deal at all, though.
  
• One of the first times I was playing the mission, I was going after the optional HVT objective before completing the Phase 2 objective (assault on Gharunta to destroy the cache). While navigating around the area to set up an ambush for the HVT, I managed to complete one of the Phase 3 objectives, recon of Sanaag Bari. However, when I went back and completed the Phase 2 objective, your scripts appear to have re-enabled the Sanaag Bari objective and there was no way to complete it. Might have been a fluke but it's something you may want to check on since it's not hard to complete that particular objective out of sequence. I got around this issue by again restarting the mission from an earlier save point.
  
• I'd successfully completed the mission through the Phase 3 objectives and was turning out of the EA village/camp toward the TOC. I was driving a "borrowed" offroad military vehicle with a mounted M2 gun. Widow was sitting in the passenger seat and no one else was in the vehicle. I'd just made the right turn out of the EA village/camp road toward the TOC when the vehicle got lit up like a frickin' Christmas tree by a machine gun nest in the EA village/camp. I died but Widow managed to get out of the vehicle in more or less one piece...how he managed that, I have no idea, since the machine gun was firing from the right and the rounds would have passed by him in order to hit me in the driver's seat. No idea why the EA guy mounted in the machine gun nest even fired...?! It really, really ticked me off since my last save point was after I'd completed the final Phase 3 objective. Which was Wanat. Which meant that I'd have to drive that entire way again with the EA guys following in a borrowed ambulance. To heck with that....I'm just going to restart again and try a different style of approach. :D
  

Due to that last issue, I haven't completed the mission all the way through. I could just restart from the Wanat save point but, as I said, I'm just going to replay the entire mission again from scratch. I'm curious how much randomization there is in patrols, etc. and this seems like a good way to find out.

One suggestion, I think it'd be nice if there was some randomized reinforcements triggered when completing certain objectives. I didn't even realize there was any sort of air support available until I happened to notice some radio options near the end of the mission. Obviously it wasn't needed much as I managed to set up ambushes at most objectives that took out the majority of the opfor in the first minute or so. After that it was just a matter of mopping up stragglers. Having semi-random reinforcements hunting for the team around the map might be a nice touch as long as it's not overdone.

Again, though...this is a really fun mission and it's obvious that you spent a lot of time crafting it. Thanks for taking the time to do so and for sharing this with the A2:OA community!

- z

[h34dup 148]

First and foremost, you did a wonderful job on this mission, h34dup! I've always thought that the Tora Bora terrain was severely underutilized by the A2:OA community and it's nice to see a well-designed mission for this locale. I did encounter a few issues while playing the mission but they're pretty minor and I'm not sure whether all of them can really be called issues...might have been user issues (PEBCAK!) or quirky, one-off things. Anyway, here goes:

• Once I got my hands on a vehicle with a mounted M2, I was able to clear 80% of the villages *very* quickly, as the opfor AI weren't too responsive until they were actually getting fired upon...and by then it was typically far too late.
  - Related to the outcome when you return to friendly territory with a captured enemy offroad/M2. Very interesting as I never did play test this much after seeing the same result.
  
• The M107 attached to the ATV was a nice touch. Unfortunately, I somehow managed to lose my other gun while pulling out the M107. I checked the ATV's gear listing and the surrounding area - no joy. Ended up restarting from a previous save point. As I said, this might have been the result of a user error. Still, I'm curious whether anyone else encountered a similar issue.
  - If it didn't go into the cargo, then it may have gotten stuck somewhere under the hood of the ATV, as the attachTo command should replace the M107 with your weapon. If I was a bit fancier of a scripter I'd figure out how to offload your mags into the ATV's cargo instead of attaching to the GL along with the weapon, that is attached to the ATV.
  
• While I declined the support from the additonal ODA 572 units, I took advantage of the indigenous support offered by the Eastern Alliance chief. Unfortunately, I didn't realize that there was an action available called "Thank And Assure" after the leader offered me his two best fighters. In fact, I didn't even notice the action until I was dropping the guys off on my way to the TOC toward the end of the mission. Not a major issue but I think that a cut-scene and/or a scripted dialogue might be a better approach rather than requiring the player to manually activate the secondary action.
  - This "Thank and Assure" action is a hidden bonus, it's not supposed to be obvious, but more if the player feels like exploring if there is anything more to say.
  
• Kinda related to the above, I seem to recall that there was some sort of mention of having completed a hidden, optional objective. I think this message came up after I called the "Thank and Assure" action near the end. Anyhow, I don't recall seeing the Tasks screen updated to include the completed objective. Not a big deal at all, though.
  - Yep. It's one of the hidden objectives, along with finding the Taliban maps, which don't appear in the journal but updates your map.
  
• One of the first times I was playing the mission, I was going after the optional HVT objective before completing the Phase 2 objective (assault on Gharunta to destroy the cache). While navigating around the area to set up an ambush for the HVT, I managed to complete one of the Phase 3 objectives, recon of Sanaag Bari. However, when I went back and completed the Phase 2 objective, your scripts appear to have re-enabled the Sanaag Bari objective and there was no way to complete it. Might have been a fluke but it's something you may want to check on since it's not hard to complete that particular objective out of sequence. I got around this issue by again restarting the mission from an earlier save point.
  - Ah yes, this is a loophole I was aware of, and I can likely address this in an update -- obj3 as a whole is controlled by a check to see if all three objectives within Phase 3 are complete. However, following obj2, there is no such check, so it will reset objective 3 if you move to Phase 3 prematurely before completing Phase 2. Players should be following the op in the proper order, but I can always check to see if any Phase 3 objectives are already complete after completing Phase 2. Thanks for pointing it out.
  
• I'd successfully completed the mission through the Phase 3 objectives and was turning out of the EA village/camp toward the TOC. I was driving a "borrowed" offroad military vehicle with a mounted M2 gun. Widow was sitting in the passenger seat and no one else was in the vehicle. I'd just made the right turn out of the EA village/camp road toward the TOC when the vehicle got lit up like a frickin' Christmas tree by a machine gun nest in the EA village/camp. I died but Widow managed to get out of the vehicle in more or less one piece...how he managed that, I have no idea, since the machine gun was firing from the right and the rounds would have passed by him in order to hit me in the driver's seat. No idea why the EA guy mounted in the machine gun nest even fired...?! It really, really ticked me off since my last save point was after I'd completed the final Phase 3 objective. Which was Wanat. Which meant that I'd have to drive that entire way again with the EA guys following in a borrowed ambulance. To heck with that....I'm just going to restart again and try a different style of approach. :D
  - Yeah, I was confused as to why the INDFOR would fire at you if you steal an active OPFOR vehicle (not sure if this also applies to empty vehicles I then filled with units in the editor)...it seems to still register to them as a red vehicle. I have no clue why this happens, there could be a way to script out a fix where the vehicle becomes empty or grouped to some null faction, but it seems like it's easier to simply warn the player in the briefing or something...
  

Due to that last issue, I haven't completed the mission all the way through. I could just restart from the Wanat save point but, as I said, I'm just going to replay the entire mission again from scratch. I'm curious how much randomization there is in patrols, etc. and this seems like a good way to find out.

One suggestion, I think it'd be nice if there was some randomized reinforcements triggered when completing certain objectives. I didn't even realize there was any sort of air support available until I happened to notice some radio options near the end of the mission. Obviously it wasn't needed much as I managed to set up ambushes at most objectives that took out the majority of the opfor in the first minute or so. After that it was just a matter of mopping up stragglers. Having semi-random reinforcements hunting for the team around the map might be a nice touch as long as it's not overdone.

- There is no air support in this mission at all, I'll have to take a look at what Radio options are presented.

Again, though...this is a really fun mission and it's obvious that you spent a lot of time crafting it. Thanks for taking the time to do so and for sharing this with the A2:OA community!

- z

Zonker thanks so much for the comprehensive feedback! Please find my responses above in red. I will look into the fixable issues and update them soon, good to hear nothing is totally game breaking and that you saw the options for different approaches, and more importantly that you actually want to play again and explore them!

I have been working on my first campaign, incredibly excited about it so far. Will post up some screens and details here soon!

[LeClair 60]

This looks awesome! Definitely going to try this soon!

[h34dup 148]

I am considering adding voice acting and converting the dialogue over for this, in addition to finally getting around to addressing a few fixes.

Who would be interested in voice acting within the next two weeks?

[LeClair 60]

I am considering adding voice acting and converting the dialogue over for this, in addition to finally getting around to addressing a few fixes.

Who would be interested in voice acting within the next two weeks?

Well you already know I am... lol

[-Snafu- 78]

One of the best missions I've ever played for this series. I really like the fact that you used accounts of real life ops to construct the mission which gave it an authentic feel. Especially when the background to the mission was presented at the beginning. The AO also feels alive and the bases and outposts look like they're used.

I'm about halfway through my first try and one interesting incident occurred:

I had just done the recce of Sanaag Bari and the HVT was in Yak Ghar so I planned to ambush him on his journey south. I moved to 066044 and set up my guys for an ambush of the SUV the HVT would be travelling in. I received a message about this time that the HVT had moved through Sanaag Bari and would be heading to Sakandarhar. "Spot on" I thought! After waiting for a bit there was no sign of an SUV anywhere but my guys reported some contacts which I checked out. Running parallel to the road on the hillside was a group of enemy fighters in column formation. "That's odd" I thought while having another check of the map to make sure I wasn't near a foot patrol camp. Nope, definitely wasn't. I figured this might be the HVT so gambled on an attack by setting off an IED I had placed in the event of an ambush on my team. Bingo! It was and my blokes finished off his escorts. Obviously his SUV must have gotten damaged at Yak Ghar forcing him to move on foot! :D

A fun turn of events chalked down to the unpredictability of war.

[h34dup 148]

One of the best missions I've ever played for this series. I really like the fact that you used accounts of real life ops to construct the mission which gave it an authentic feel. Especially when the background to the mission was presented at the beginning. The AO also feels alive and the bases and outposts look like they're used.

I'm about halfway through my first try and one interesting incident occurred:

I had just done the recce of Sanaag Bari and the HVT was in Yak Ghar so I planned to ambush him on his journey south. I moved to 066044 and set up my guys for an ambush of the SUV the HVT would be travelling in. I received a message about this time that the HVT had moved through Sanaag Bari and would be heading to Sakandarhar. "Spot on" I thought! After waiting for a bit there was no sign of an SUV anywhere but my guys reported some contacts which I checked out. Running parallel to the road on the hillside was a group of enemy fighters in column formation. "That's odd" I thought while having another check of the map to make sure I wasn't near a foot patrol camp. Nope, definitely wasn't. I figured this might be the HVT so gambled on an attack by setting off an IED I had placed in the event of an ambush on my team. Bingo! It was and my blokes finished off his escorts. Obviously his SUV must have gotten damaged at Yak Ghar forcing him to move on foot! :D

A fun turn of events chalked down to the unpredictability of war.

Oh man, so good to hear you enjoyed the mission! If you like the sense of authenticity that comes with a historically-grounded mission, you should keep an eye on the Campaign I'm working on - Lions of Kandahar - it's an adaptation of the book by the same name that takes place during the 2006 Op. Medusa.

Anyway, I've never heard of the HVT's SUV getting trashed and forcing the occupants to get out and move on-foot, but that's cool you were still able to nab him! I bet if you played again that experience would be different. Let me know if you ever give it another run and it goes the same way with the HVT, he should be content to the back seat of his Caddy haha.

[BlackADD3R 1]

My teammate at the beginning gets stuck inside the building ,and after, he gets caught up in the tent while talking to the EA guys and won't follow me. (hat to wound him in the foot and then heal him to snap him out of it). Mind you this has happened to me in other missions/campaigns. AI bugs ???

[h34dup 148]

Hey Blackadder, I have not heard of other players having this experience -- it definitely sounds like an AI bug. Are you running only the mods in the required addons list for this mission when you play it? Sometimes other mods, especially stuff like ACE which I have never tested this Scenario in can have unexpected effects.

Still, I'll be sure to look into this when I revisit the mission for updates. I have a new version in-place, and almost switched focus from my Campaign to doing an update, but I have switched back to full-speed ahead on the Campaign and will likely revisit this at a later date. Still, I haven't forgotten about this mission and will update it soon. Most of the issues I've read from players are things that are not necessarily bugs I can fix-- more engine/AI related gripes.

Anyway, make sure only the specified addons are activated, try restarting, and if nothing works you could always un-PBO and move the unit outside of the TOC. Like I said, I haven't seen this myself, so it's tough to know what the cause may be. Perhaps an older version of the ToraBora island?

Thanks for playing and posting, hopefully you can get this sorted out so you can enjoy the rest of the mission!

[BlackADD3R 1]

I am not at my normal pc right now but I can confirm I had ACE running when this happened, along with SLX mod, JSRS and a couple of others. I will restart it tonight vanilla and I am sure it will work. Thanks for your immediate attention.

[Dibbz 1]

So I downloaded it last night and finished it just now. Really good mission. I did find it very tricky to get in close to the villages without getting spotted though. I tried to recon each village from multiple angles before working out enemy locations but still got spotted when I made my way in. Any tips? I was playing with ASR_AI which might have made things a little bit more trickier, though I'm not sure. Took me about 5 and a half hours to complete.

I enjoy this type of mission where you are not required to go head on with the enemy and you get to sneak around scoping things out. I'll be looking out for more recon missions from now on :)

BTW is there a Satchel or something in the first village? I could only find an RPG to take out the weapons cache.

[h34dup 148]

So I downloaded it last night and finished it just now. Really good mission. I did find it very tricky to get in close to the villages without getting spotted though. I tried to recon each village from multiple angles before working out enemy locations but still got spotted when I made my way in. Any tips? I was playing with ASR_AI which might have made things a little bit more trickier, though I'm not sure. Took me about 5 and a half hours to complete.

I enjoy this type of mission where you are not required to go head on with the enemy and you get to sneak around scoping things out. I'll be looking out for more recon missions from now on :)

BTW is there a Satchel or something in the first village? I could only find an RPG to take out the weapons cache.

Thanks a lot Dibbz! Glad you enjoyed, and 5hrs - whew! Talk about getting the experience of a real op, taking your time to check it out. This is exactly how the mission was designed, but since I myself had played through it hundreds of times as I built it, I never had the opportunity to really take my time. I actually sort of got motion sickness after playing too long, something about all that uneven terrain.

As for avoiding detection-- ASR_AI most likely will affect things, as I did not factor these kinds of mods into the experience. However, team size plays a role (you can play with as few as 1 other squadmate), or really just who is actually going into the village to accomplish the objective.

What I would do is leave two vehicles (ATV, gun truck, whatever) and the rest of my teammates in one of the natural terrain dips but nearby enough to act as a QRF if I get spotted. Then you just go in alone, prone whenever out in the open, you can avoid the enemy using the buildings and alleys, then you just need to get close enough to trigger the objective (it's based on proximity, not something like "player knowsAbout target"). Once you are in, you can re-trace your steps to quietly slip out (one side of the town has heavier foot patrols than the other). Also, try to avoid civis, or startling them/making them run around, it seems to attract attention. If you get spotted, fall back immediately, have the rest of your squad re-group to meet you halfway.

For the first village, there is an explosives cache with IEDs, a large IED is more than enough to get the party started. ;)