I'm looking for Proponents and Opponents of the DAYZ mod.

[antoineflemming 14]

I played DayZ for a week before I stopped. I really liked the idea of zombie apocalypse (who doesn't :p) but the actual execution didn't quite live up to my expectations. What I experienced came closer to a deathmatch than zombie survival. Surprisingly, I did not get killed by a "bandit" but just the thought that one might be hiding with a sniper rifle shooting everything in sight (I saw this, twice) completely destroyed the atmosphere for me.

And, see, that's my problem with a large part of the DayZ crowd. There's always been those kind of players, but seems like there was a large influx of players that have that mentality of just shooting everything in sight. That's the same reason this community criticizes the "COD kiddies" type of players. DayZ has attracted a lot of these console-arcade-twitch shooter players who only care about "getting moar fragz". And the reason that DayZ is so popular is that its theme of zombies caters to these players. The reason there are so many people playing DayZ is because most of these players are arcade players. While there are a few players who are actually getting into ArmA2, that's NOT the norm, or the trend.

I understand your optimism, DMarkwick, that DayZ players are their own community, and that ultimately they will come over to ArmA, but that's not guaranteed, nor is that the case for the majority. And this is the main reason I and several others believe that, currently, DayZ is more of a con than a pro. Because those DayZ players do bleed over to ArmA2, and it's not to learn ArmA2 or to join the ArmA community. DayZ's popularity is no different than COD's popularity. COD builds on popularity of arcade shoot 'em up gameplay. Treyarch's games, like DayZ, builds on the popularity of zombie games. That's the primary reason Treyarch is now as successful as Infinity Ward, because of their zombies. DayZ is no different.

The DayZ mod would be more of a positive for me if it didn't include zombies. Why? Because, then, it'd only attract players who were actually interested in the survival aspect of the mod. There would be no confusion on the point of the mod, or the core theme of the mod. It would suggest a greater focus on realism in survival-based gameplay, rather than having a double focus on survival AND zombies. Those who were drawn ONLY by zombies, most of whom tend to be from the arcade FPS crowd, wouldn't be drawn to it, and you'd have the remnant who actually did pick up DayZ because of the survival aspect. It would appear boring to all those who only cared about zombies, and those who only cared about shooting other players. Banditry wouldn't go away, but it would be diminished. That's really the only way that I would be a proponent of DayZ. If I knew that it fully thrived off of the type of game ArmA2 is, a realistic sandbox simulator, just without the military part, and not on a current industry-wide obsession with zombies. And I know that bandits in the mod target other players, but most of them wouldn't be playing DayZ if there weren't zombies. And then you wouldn't have a mod which's sales numbers (increased ArmA2 sales might as well be considered DayZ sales) overshadow it's speculated contributions to ArmA2. Because, honestly, those contributions, those benefits, theoretically should exist regardless of the number of players DayZ has brought in. Because any improvements should be made because DayZ highlights the need for certain MP improvements, NOT because DayZ has a certain large number of players that warrants new improvements. The improvements should be because of necessity, not player numbers.

EDIT: W0lle, this is meant as one big "con" by the way, not meant as a general DayZ discussion. I hope this is ok.

[HazeGrayandUnderway 1]

The way I see it:

Pro:

• Has given Bohemia Interactive more publicity than what they'd normally be receiving.
  
• Has increased interest in this game and brought players who normally would have never tried it
  

Con:

• It's caused a rift in the community with proponents on both sides of the argument acting elitist and hostile towards one another. And if anything it's changed a lot of the dynamics that shape player interactions in ARMA2. Older players often act rudely and downright nasty towards new-comers and refuse to help answer inquiries brought up by newer players and persecute them if they make a mistake. I've seen a guy literally run out of a game because he asked how to unload his backpack. They aren't as helpful or upbringing as they used to be. The tolerance is gone. (that's just a con as I see it: not a discussion)
  
• 
  

[Deadfast 43]

And, see, that's my problem with a large part of the DayZ crowd. There's always been those kind of players, but seems like there was a large influx of players that have that mentality of just shooting everything in sight....

I don't think that is quite fair. Frankly I am getting a bit tired of all this "COD community" thing. I find that the reason there is so much deathmatch going on is the absurd paranoia going on thanks to the few. Everybody shoots first and ask questions, honestly, probably never. As for how this possibly could be addressed I have no idea. Possibly on a closed server?

[antoineflemming 14]

I don't think that is quite fair. Frankly I am getting a bit tired of all this "COD community" thing. I find that the reason there is so much deathmatch going on is the absurd paranoia going on thanks to the few. Everybody shoots first and ask questions, honestly, probably never. As for how this possibly could be addressed I have no idea. Possibly on a closed server?

Well then you don't understand the "COD community" thing. It's basically players who come from arcade shooters to the ArmA series with that arcade shooter mentality and attitude. Where else are the majority of DayZ players coming from? Certainly not ArmA2. And I doubt they are new to gaming altogether. It is fair. It's not like a disease that makes them lesser people; it's just that there's a different mindset that you have when playing arcade shooters as opposed to playing games like ArmA2. And seems like a large number of these DayZ players have this mentality, and keep this mentality when playing DayZ/ArmA2. The whole deathmatch/killing anyone in sight isn't some product of paranoia that DayZ induces. This is specifically about players whose goal it is to kill other players because they are playing a survival game and are expecting to be working with other players instead of fighting other players. As I said, probably the biggest negative of DayZ for me is that, in large part because of the zombies theme, which helps fuel a current zombie obsession industry-wide, the mod has attracted large numbers of arcade-game-minded players, a number of whom think that ArmA2 is crap and terrible/boring without DayZ.

[metalcraze 290]

^Correct. Don't forget about bean wars. People were just spawning at the beach and rushing into the nearby settlement just to shoot other players. The majority of people on any server thus stayed only around Cherno, shooting each other for no other reason but to shoot each other.

That and DayZ has no mechanism to prevent mindless grinder. And it won't.

[OldFossil 0]

...

... As I said, probably the biggest negative of DayZ for me is that...

... the mod has attracted large numbers of arcade-game-minded players, a number of whom think that ArmA2 is crap and terrible/boring without DayZ.

You said it!

Those people would never play with ArmA2, but DayZ gives them the opportunity to understand the high quality of the original game and maybe they could become ArmA2 players...the smartest ones I suppose.

I can't see that as a con for ArmA2.

I totally agree with you about the blame for the indiscriminate killing of the other players just for the taste to do it. In my opinion this kind of behaviour does not meets the true DayZ mod spirit.

[antoineflemming 14]

You said it!

Those people would never play with ArmA2, but DayZ gives them the opportunity to understand the high quality of the original game and maybe they could become ArmA2 players...the smartest ones I suppose.

I can't see that as a con for ArmA2.

I totally agree with you about the blame for the indiscriminate killing of the other players just for the taste to do it. In my opinion this kind of behaviour does not meets the true DayZ mod spirit.

Well, see, the reason I say it's a con is that, well, there's always this opportunity/possibility for a non-ArmA2 player to become an ArmA2 player, regardless of what kind of game he comes from. If someone were to make a COD or BF3 mod for ArmA2, that made the game play like arcade games (faster movement, 360 turns, floating hands, but realistic wounding system, weapons, vehicles), it would attract a whole lot of players. And, sure, there would be the possibility of those players learning ArmA2 and taking it up, but that's not guaranteed and that's not the norm. Relatively few have made the switch to ArmA2. And, with this speculative arcade mod, as well as with DayZ, it attracts the large part of it's non-ArmA numbers (the majority of DayZ players) from the arcade crowd. Because the majority have been playing first person shooters before DayZ, and, let's face it, it's pretty much arcade shooters or ArmA2. We can speculate on whether they will play ArmA2 vanilla, and understand it's high quality, but that's the case for a few. So it's a con to me when most of them don't do this and when they say that ArmA2 is crap. Not only is this contrary to the "true DayZ mod spirit", but I'm pretty sure it's contrary to the message Rocket intended for DayZ to convey. I'm sure Rocket didn't intend for his mod or the players it attracted to say that ArmA2 is crap.

[PlacidPaul 11]

The DayZ mod would be more of a positive for me if it didn't include zombies. Why? Because, then, it'd only attract players who were actually interested in the survival aspect of the mod. There would be no confusion on the point of the mod, or the core theme of the mod. It would suggest a greater focus on realism in survival-based gameplay, rather than having a double focus on survival AND zombies.

I'm confused that anyone would recognize it for any else than what you described. I didn't think it was focused on zombies that much, and it was similar to arma in that if you shoot your weapon you will attract attention. The large amount of shooting in DayZ is in self defense.

There's always been those kind of players, but seems like there was a large influx of players that have that mentality of just shooting everything in sight.

Then they will suck at playing DayZ, at least in it's current form. If the mod continues to increase in player base, there might be the temptation to turn it into more of a first person shooter, but that is not arma's strength, it would be a mistake. I think the fans of DayZ (who like it for what it is) could migrate to arma, because it's not really a FPS, it takes more than shooting to survive, quite the opposite of COD.

I don't really want to defend DayZ, cause i don't care that much, but i've seen this before. The gameplay is getting misinterpreted for some kind of shoot'em up game.

The DayZ mod would be more of a positive for me if.......

W0lle, this is meant to help antoineflemming understand his one big "con" is actually a "pro", not meant as a general DayZ discussion. :j:

Edited July 12, 2012 by PlacidPaul

[antoineflemming 14]

I'm confused that anyone would recognize it for any else than what you described. I didn't think it was focused on zombies that much, and it was similar to arma in that if you shoot your weapon you will attract attention. The large amount of shooting in DayZ is in self defense. Then they will suck at playing DayZ, at least in it's current form. If the mod continues to increase in player base, there might be the temptation to turn it into more of a first person shooter, but that is not arma's strength, it would be a mistake. I think the fans of DayZ (who like it for what it is) could migrate to arma, because it's not really a FPS, it takes more than shooting to survive, quite the opposite of COD.

I don't really want to defend DayZ, cause i don't care that much, but i've seen this before. The gameplay is getting misinterpreted for some kind of shoot'em up game.

W0lle, this is meant to help antoineflemming understand his one big "con" is actually a "pro", not meant as a general DayZ discussion. :j:

Oh, just to clarify what I meant by a con: I'm not saying that the DayZ mod is meant to be focused on zombies, just that this is a large part of why it is popular. And a con to me is that DayZ players are misinterpreting it for some kind of shoot'em up. A con is that many of the DayZ players don't focus on the survival aspect of it. Because, looking at the realistic survival aspect of it, you can't really say that it's that much different than ArmA, like you said. But many players, especially those who frequent Youtube, don't see it as that. To say that ArmA sucks and DayZ "rocks", suggests that they aren't looking at the mod as being an extension of ArmA, which is really what the survival aspect means. And that's my problem with DayZ and why I can't be a proponent of it. I don't think there's enough emphasis on that. I might be more for it if Rocket and the DayZ team would do more to try to encourage that and discourage the blatant shooting other people. Maybe then some of these players would get into the mindset of surviving, not just shooting. And, maybe then, they could appreciate ArmA. I do think that if all DayZ players could recognize that, then DayZ could truly be considered a success, then you wouldn't have players saying that ArmA2 sucks compared to DayZ (which is the biggest con for me, really, and counter to what an ArmA mod should do - work in concert with ArmA, not against it), and then most people could say that they are proponents of DayZ.

I wouldn't have responded, but I think that some discussion and clarification can help jerryhopper get a fuller understanding of not just pros and cons of DayZ, but also the reasoning for those pros and cons. Hope this helps jerry!

[PlacidPaul 11]

And a con to me is that DayZ players are misinterpreting it for some kind of shoot'em up. A con is that many of the DayZ players don't focus on the survival aspect of it.

Obviously, a huge pro is freedom of choice. I have never been player killed, i live like a hermit. When i start, i run inland and try to set up shop somewhere. So many players have different approaches and many players have yet to grasp to objective "just survive".

I don't believe this alpha will start to cater to any current player base. But, the Devs will complete their vision of a open world survival horror game. The users that love the vision will form into the real fans of the mod/game. Anyone who gets Dayz and tries to shoot'em up already has trouble doing this without a starting weapon. This is a good sign of not catering, but completing a vision.

A con can't be the way players play it, it's in alpha, and many players have yet to grasp, the real fun. The game is designed as a survival game, if it's developed properly then it will attract players that love this aspect.

[antoineflemming 14]

Obviously, a huge pro is freedom of choice. I have never been player killed, i live like a hermit. When i start, i run inland and try to set up shop somewhere. So many players have different approaches and many players have yet to grasp to objective "just survive".

I don't believe this alpha will start to cater to any current player base. But, the Devs will complete their vision of a open world survival horror game. The users that love the vision will form into the real fans of the mod/game. Anyone who gets Dayz and tries to shoot'em up already has trouble doing this without a starting weapon. This is a good sign of not catering, but completing a vision.

A con can't be the way players play it, it's in alpha, and many players have yet to grasp, the real fun. The game is designed as a survival game, if it's developed properly then it will attract players that love this aspect.

But that pro is a pro of ArmA2 in general, not something specific to DayZ.

[dmarkwick 261]

But that pro is a pro of ArmA2 in general, not something specific to DayZ.

Really? It looks pretty specific to DayZ to me :)

[antoineflemming 14]

Really? It looks pretty specific to DayZ to me :)

So you don't have freedom of choice in ArmA2? Is that what you're saying?

[dmarkwick 261]

So you don't have freedom of choice in ArmA2? Is that what you're saying?

I find it rather depends on the mission :) But I find that freedom of choice is endemic to DayZ gameplay. In fact it's the unfettered freedom at the expense of a gameplay structure that perhaps, ironically, many ArmA players don't really like. "Just surviving" takes many forms :)

[Shagulon 1]

er, you have the total wrong end of the stick re dayz.

there are a large amount of idiots playing - i would say 50-50 good bad.

the bad arent attracted to dayz cos of its setting or theme, they play it to grief people because it is popular, in the same way idiots hack games that are popular (dayz) or are attracted to chat rooms of popular games. that's all.

when dayz dies down a little, the idiots will go.

you are correct that it is degenerated into shoot on sight, as the few have spoilt it. the only way to avoid this is play in a group. however, part of the attraction is the fear of human players, snipers around every corner. if pvp kills it for you it aint the game for you.

in addition, if you think rocket made it impossible to win... you totally missed the point. it isnt about winning but about the journey.

there's no point to the game.

[W0lle 1042]

We all stop the general DayZ discussion here now and return to the original purpose of the thread: Listing pro and cons about DayZ.

Thanks.

Which part of above line was so damn hard to understand?

End of discussion now. Please continue in the official DayZ forums.