I'm looking for Proponents and Opponents of the DAYZ mod.

[John-092 2]

If you like simulation, you can try one of the many MILSIM communities It's quite popular for Arma 2. Sometimes it's COOP (human team vs AI) and other times Team vs Team. It's pretty hardcore compared to all of these arcade shooters and even vanilla Arma 2, but it's a great experience. There's tons of other mods as well incase this is not your cup of tea.

Example:

[youube]WEamKOqxqqg

That was amazing to be honest! Thanks! :)

Edited July 6, 2012 by Placebo

[Smurf 12]

I've been keeping an eye on many topics about DayZ across many foruns and I find one thing funny.

People complain that milsims are boring, that walking miles just to take a bullet without seeing from where it came from, you don´t have chocke points (ACTION!) and son on... Yet their play a mod where just 50 ppl share 250km², you use few weapons, almost no vehicles, no objective at all, suffer from N bugs, have to be stealth (slow) and they are happy with it. I can´t see a logic there...

[OldFossil 0]

...

... I can´t see a logic there...

In my opinion it's not a matter of logic, but personal taste for a kind of situation rather than another one (you are right when you say that the DayZ is a very slow paced kind of game).

Personally a enjoy both kind of mission.

DayZ makes of yourself a prey, you can count almost only on your individual capacity to manage an "against impossible odds" situation, for me this is a strong argument in favor of it.

[MavericK96 0]

I've been keeping an eye on many topics about DayZ across many foruns and I find one thing funny.

People complain that milsims are boring, that walking miles just to take a bullet without seeing from where it came from, you don´t have chocke points (ACTION!) and son on... Yet their play a mod where just 50 ppl share 250km², you use few weapons, almost no vehicles, no objective at all, suffer from N bugs, have to be stealth (slow) and they are happy with it. I can´t see a logic there...

That is a really good question, and one I have pondered a great many times myself. Personally, I think of DayZ as something of a running/walking simulator. :D

[-Coulum- 35]

I've been keeping an eye on many topics about DayZ across many foruns and I find one thing funny.

People complain that milsims are boring, that walking miles just to take a bullet without seeing from where it came from, you don´t have chocke points (ACTION!) and son on... Yet their play a mod where just 50 ppl share 250km², you use few weapons, almost no vehicles, no objective at all, suffer from N bugs, have to be stealth (slow) and they are happy with it. I can´t see a logic there.

Cause theres ZOMBIES!!!

Nah. That is a good point. Why is Dayz more fun (for certain people) than a mislim yet has less action. I would say it because

a)

In Dayz you have complete freedom.

b)

In Dayz you can team up with your buddy and backstab your other one

c)

The rpg element of dayz makes it more fun and will keep people coming back for more as they feel more attached to their character.

Those are my opinions, although I only played Dayz for 15 minutes before quitting and going back to normal arma. I am sure that I would like it if I had more time, but playing 3 hours just to lose the very small amount of progress you have made does not fit into my schedule well.

[Binkowski 26]

Cause theres ZOMBIES!!!

a)

In Dayz you have complete freedom.

b)

In Dayz you can team up with your buddy and backstab your other one

c)

The rpg element of dayz makes it more fun and will keep people coming back for more as they feel more attached to their character.

These things have existed in other missions since Operation Flashpoint. And in my eyes, you have complete freedom in ArmA2 it's just dependent on the mission you play.

[-Coulum- 35]

These things have existed in other missions since Operation Flashpoint. And in my eyes, you have complete freedom in ArmA2 it's just dependent on the mission you play.

I was comparing it to the milsim use of arma.

[Binkowski 26]

I was comparing it to the milsim use of arma.

Ah, in that case you still have the freedom and all of those features. Now it is just dependent on the group of players that you are with, and how they treat the game.

[-Coulum- 35]

Ah, in that case you still have the freedom and all of those features. Now it is just dependent on the group of players that you are with, and how they treat the game.

Well I guess that depends on what you define freedom as. In a milsim mission you can't kneecap a teamate and leave him to bleed out - well technically you can but you would be kicked out of that community awful fast. In a milsim you don't sprint away and try to run and gun. In a milsim you must listen to your squad commander. etc etc Those sort of things limit true freedom is what I mean.

[Binkowski 26]

Well I guess that depends on what you define freedom as. In a milsim mission you can't kneecap a teamate and leave him to bleed out - well technically you can but you would be kicked out of that community awful fast. In a milsim you don't sprint away and try to run and gun. In a milsim you must listen to your squad commander. etc etc Those sort of things limit true freedom is what I mean.

Understandable where you are coming from. The groups I have played with are not THAT uptight and anal about it. The trick is finding the group that will play the missions that allows you to do that sort of stuff. But trust me, they are out there.

[Rhodesy77 11]

*cough CTB cough*

[VanhA-ICON 11]

I really love the fact that it's become such a phenomenon amongst newbies. Nothing wrong with that.

As zombies go I myself prefer the hectic chaos of L4D series.

Could it be that the transfer to check also the main area of the game comes when they realize the mod is not about zombies but themselves?

This is a very exciting thing to follow.

[Stagler 39]

Well I guess that depends on what you define freedom as. In a milsim mission you can't kneecap a teamate and leave him to bleed out - well technically you can but you would be kicked out of that community awful fast. In a milsim you don't sprint away and try to run and gun. In a milsim you must listen to your squad commander. etc etc Those sort of things limit true freedom is what I mean.

Sounds like your milsim group is still working as if it was 1918 mate.

The ones I have rolled with value small unit leadership, everybodies opinion, shared squad command roles, and good cheer, even when on serious operations, or when playing a fuck about game for a laugh of a weekday.

[Stagler 39]

Sorry for the double post, but case in point talking to a mate of mine on steam last night.

BigAl: ill play dayz not vanilla lol

Stagler: you and your day fucking z haha

Stagler: gotta mix it up lad

BigAl: is the reason i spent 24.99 on arma 2 lol

Stagler: cant play day z all the time

Stagler: arma is more than day z lad

[HKFlash 9]

With DayZ's current low teamwork, I'll pass it.

[Pummel 10]

Here is why my cage is so rattled about Dayz. I hate hype, especially when the game is not deserving of it, and Dayz is not worth it (yet). It was the main thing that ticked me off about Minecraft. Great little game for the right niche crowd, but when it took over the world it just seemed so stupid and wrong and reactionary. Dayz is heading the same way.

Personally my thoughts on Dayz are not that simple. I don't love it or hate it. I actually want it to succeed, because it could be something that I would love to play. My gripe is that it's just not there yet, and judging by the bits I've seen, it's not even close. I'll do the positive stuff first. What I like, is the persistant nature of it. I know how important this is because I was a big fan of Ultima Online and Everquest, and I know that building something that lasts, is an incredibly cool thing. Whether that's just a reputation, or a character and their gear, or both, it's all really good stuff. Secondly, I love the mood - due to the zombies and scariness of it. It's something you don't get elsewhere in Arma2 because you are only ever up against men with weapons, which itself is scary but not to the extent that DayZ is when you get that real sense of terror, largely thanks to all the creepy sound effects that play. Thirdly, I love the social experiment aspect of it. It might not have even been entirely intentional, but the idea of all different types of people put in to a dangerous and tense situation, and some people go nuts and try to kill everyone and others try to remain honorable. I love that stuff. Again it mirrors MMO's (not the WoW type boring ones, but the Eve type interesting ones), some people will make friends, some will make enemies, some will become infamous in time.

So basically, the game has a LOT going for it, and it's all stuff I find very interesting, and I would really like to be a part of it. But what I really dislike, is that it's far too shallow at the moment. There is no future in what you are doing, and there is zero motivation to play. I think of most of the people are playing it because either, they are a hype following sheep, or because they have just never really played any online game outside of the usual Counterstrike / CoD type stuff, so the idea of survival and big open worlds etc. is all very new to them. But those of us who have been playing games like that for around 14 years or more, are not impressed. Basically, the game NEEDS a lot at this point. You could take it any number of directions, but as an example, here's what I think it needs. There needs to be more incentive to stay alive, and more penalty for dying. Currently you can start the game, wander for a few hours and find nothing, so just suicide. You then get to start over and try exploring a different area, and you haven't really lost anything. That's what I did - because I walked miles in one direction and saw nothing of interest, and I happened to reach the the edge of the world map and I didn't want to walk all the way back... Also if people die and their friend picks up their tins of beans and whatnot, then you haven't really lost anything. Again, MMORPG's have been doing this stuff for well over a decade and it is FAR more refined, and seeing as this would be considered "Permadeath", then it should be looking at Roguelike games. Basically, you should earn more and achieve more when you play, and when you die it should not be recoverable. Nothing will build the tension more than that, and it will make staying alive feel a lot more meaningful.

Secondly, there needs to be a motivation to go through all this crap. As much as I love Arma2 and Capture The Island and warfare modes in general, the running long distances is always a bit of a downer. But at least in those other mods, you are earning a lot of money every minute so most of the time you can buy a humvee, fill it with snipers and medics and anti tank people or whatever, and head off like that. It's a LOT more rewarding. There is also a huge motivation to keep playing, because eventually you will be able to afford a tank, and then a fleet of tanks, and then a chopper to transport your tanks, and then a gunship, and eventually you could end up flying around in a jet fighter/bomber and bombing the annoying enemies you have been striving against for the past few hours. Where is that motivation in Dayz? You really expect me to run 20,000 metres to some crappy old abandoned warehouse only to find a revolver and a tin of beans? No thanks.. What you need is far more stuff that you can get and do. Some more choppers and vehicles for a start. There also should be some kind of angle, because say you play the game for a month and eventually you and your buddies have your own gunship and you can fly around and kill anything you want, so what? What is the motivation to keep playing? That will just get boring very fast. What should happen is that they run out of fuel and ammo, and the fuel and ammo is coming in to the region via a supply route that is heavily contested by both players and zombies. Maybe there is also a black market of it. Players should then be able to bargain with each other and fight to take control of key structures and locations and trade routes throughout the world. You should be able to start companies or organisations, either legit or mafia-esque, controlling things for your own needs and wars will break out. Without all that, everyone is going to be bored of it very soon and the whole thing will just be a big over hyped flash in the pan.

So what bugs me is the chance that all this hype will interfere with the game's journey to where it needs to be.... Hype often does that and it always worries me, just like with Minecraft. If everyone gets rich out of the Alpha, then why would they even care to make big and difficult improvements to the game? It's down to gamers to steer the future of these games, but because they act like such over excitable little children, it ruins everything. Again with Minecraft, I felt exactly the same as how I feel about Dayz. It was such a brilliant 'core', I could travel around a nice world that procedurally generated itself around me, and I could build structures. Great! But now what? I wanted enemies to come along and try to break in to my structures, so that would motivate me to move out of my mud hut and build a stone house. And then tougher enemies come along which can bash down stone walls, so I need to build a serious fortress, and then I need to climb up on to the roof and start shooting them with my bow and arrow. Perhaps as time goes by the numbers of enemies that spawn each night, gets bigger and bigger, and one man can never defend his own fortress. So at that point you need to build automated defenses - catapults, ballistas, AI soldiers who will dump cauldrons of hot oil down on the enemies, and you can build a moat around your fortress etc.. Imagine how fun that would be, like a first person tower defense game, and in a persistant world. But no..... a zillion morons go bat crap crazy over the alpha version of the game and the main guy is floating around the mediterranean on his yacht and is still expected to come back and finish off the game. It's never going to happen, and in fact it didn't happen. He even hired a full team of people but the game went through beta and to release in no time and very little new stuff was added. Just meaningless crap like new craftable items, pots and pans, and whatever else. I felt cheated out of what could have been an amazing game, and I bet the same happens to Dayz.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Pummel

[gunso 10]

dont hate dayz so much, it made the warfare server get populated again by the influx of new players :cool:

It seems like dayz is the reason these guy get to know arma 2 but after a while and due to lack of objective some of them started to get bored and begin prowling the online server to try new missions. Once they have tried insurgency or warfare and realize that you can have multiple tanks under your control compared to other fps online game, it's gonna make them a true armaholic.

[OMAC 254]

Where is that motivation in Dayz? You really expect me to run 20,000 metres to some crappy old abandoned warehouse only to find a revolver and a tin of beans? No thanks..

HA! This sums up DayZ for me. Well said! Where's the OBJECTIVE? What's the point? Oh. There is none. NEXT!

[Lorca 10]

To the OP: You're worrying too much instead of being happy for BIS. BIS has worked so hard and I'm glad they're earning some well deserve extra cash. God knows how much money an indie company needs. You can start worrying when you see the writing on the wall but in the meantime, don't put the cart before the horse. To stone an imaginary conclusion is the silliest thing one can do.

[james2464 177]

BIS have made millions from DayZ, I'd like to know how this affects development of Arma 3. Does more money really equal a better game? Early 2013.. we will see.

[Binkowski 26]

There seems to be a recurring vibe of "more sales and money for BIS" going on in this thread.. Yes we know that that is a plus for them, but come on. We got it the first time. Actually, we got it when everyone started posting about how ArmA2 is at the top of the Steam sales list. That's cool. Awesome sales are up. But in all honesty, I don't care about sales. BI has made games since 2001 that many people in the community have loved dearly. Back then, sales weren't great.. and we STILL received updates and content and great games.

[antoineflemming 14]

I think there's a kinda of assumption here that "more support for DayZ"/"more money brought in from DayZ" == a better ArmA3 or that certain DayZ features will make it into ArmA3. As said, that's an assumption. That's not guaranteed. There's also this assumption that DayZ players will definitely, eventually, want to play ArmA2. That is also clearly an assumption. The majority of the "benefits" of DayZ in this thread are assumptions. There is no guarantee that anything in DayZ will translate over to ArmA3, or even ArmA2 for that matter.

Then there's the idea that the ArmA community should cater to and gladly welcome the new DayZ fanbase (as in specifically those newcoming players who have never played ArmA2 nor play ArmA2: who only play DayZ), either because they are new or because DayZ is popular and brought in a lot of money for BIS. Once again I go to the example of COD or BF players:

This community would very quickly jump all over BIS and fans, if a mod was created that made the game more like Modern Warfare, or Black Ops, or Battlefield 3 - arcadey. Something like this would be popular (there are MANY arcade shooter fans dying for something other than COD). It would bring in a lot of money for BIS (especially with a combo of arcade gameplay+customization in ArmA3). But just because it's popular, will bring in a lot of sales, and has a lot of diehard fans, doesn't mean that it's ok.

As Binkowski said, the OFP/ArmA series has never been one to draw strength/support from number of sales, like COD. So why should sales drive BIS's decisions now? Why should sales matter now? The comment was made some pages back that money matters. Why does money matter now? Why did it not matter before?

Another point. I've seen a lot of people say that DayZ is a testament to the modding power of the RealVirtuality engine, and DayZ draws from this and builds on this, and that this is also a reason why DayZ is so popular. Honestly, and I'm being objective here, DayZ draws more from the overall hype of zombies more so than from the fact that the RV engine is highly moddable. I don't think DayZ's being on the RV engine is that special. For the current ArmA2 players who also play DayZ, and for some DayZ players, this was an important factor. But for many DayZ players, I think they like it because it's, and I quote come Youtube commenter, "The most innovative ZOMBIE game/mod". I've seen many DayZ players who frequent Youtube (if they are idiots who comment on Youtube, then aren't they also idiots who play DayZ?, OnlyRazor) who state that they like DayZ as a zombie survival game because it's innovative, and no previous zombie game has ever done that and focused on survival. If DayZ had offered all the same features, and was on a different game engine, I think it would be just as popular, just as "successful". Simply, I don't think most DayZ players (those who aren't previous ArmA players) made the decision to pick up DayZ because it's on a BIS ArmA2 engine. It draws it's popularity from being a zombie, survival game, in that order.

bobtom made the comment: "DayZ [put] ArmA 2 into the limelight, we should have much more sales for ArmA3, and BI deserves that". That would be a perfect scenario, a win-win for the ArmA and DayZ communities (no, they aren't one and the same - hence a separate DayZ forum), IF that were true. Because the truth is that DayZ has put DayZ into the limelight much more than DayZ has put ArmA2 into the limelight. In fact, judging by most gaming articles about ArmA2 or ArmA3, DayZ has cast a shadow over both. Yes, there will be more sales for BI games, and maybe even ArmA3, if DayZ is guaranteed for that game.

The main issue is the reputation of the ArmA series. It has been known for a decade as a realistic military simulator. Regardless of what is said here, DayZ is NOT known as a realistic survival simulator. It is known as a zombie survival game/mod. I don't want that to be what ArmA3 is known for - the game engine behind the "ultimate realistic zombie survival game". And I don't, mainly because ArmA3 is so much of an improvement over ArmA2. ArmA3's features are very noteworthy when compared to ArmA2. And I don't want that overshadowed by DayZ. I wouldn't be as concerned, if DayZ were known as an ArmA2 mod just as much as ACE is known as an ArmA2 mod and A2: Project Reality is known as an ArmA2 mod. It really seems like now, ArmA2 is known, by the gaming community at large, as DayZ.

To finish, DayZ caters to, satisfies, and draws popularity from a current gaming fad. Take a look outside of DayZ and just consider just how many zombie games are being announced. It's a fad, no different than COD's trademark killstreak-perk-arcade-gameplay became a fad after Modern Warfare was released back in 2007. Almost every big name FPS developer came out with games that had killstreaks, perks, and unlockable weapon customization after COD4 came out, and all around the same time. The same thing is happening now with zombies, and, on that note, zombies games that aren't just about killing zombies (they either focus on survival, and-or focus on strong storytelling). Fads are popular, they make a lot of sales, very quickly. Catering to them can make a developer as many sales as COD has made over the past 5 years. But large numbers of sales is not the sign of a good game. Nor do I believe BIS's decision should be dictated by how many sales they can get.

In conclusion, I don't believe that DayZ has ruined ArmA2. But I do think that DayZ has taken away attention from ArmA2, and more importantly, ArmA3. And I do believe that, if ArmA continues to be overshadowed by DayZ, that it could have some negative impact (especially ArmA's reputation as first and foremost a realistic military sandbox game). That said, I do believe popularity will wain for DayZ once Black Ops 2 and other zombie games are released. Treyarch's zombie mode has been very popular among zombie fans for a while now. That, and the fact that very soon (within a year), the gaming market will become really saturated with zombie games.

EDIT: Sorry, jerryhopper. I re-read over your OP, and realized you wanted short and to the point. I just wanted to express a full opinion on DayZ. Because I'm not PRO DayZ, nor ANTI DayZ. I was when it first came out, but mainly I wanted to address some preconceived ideas about DayZ. Hope this is okay.

Edited July 4, 2012 by antoineflemming

[HKFlash 9]

There seems to be a recurring vibe of "more sales and money for BIS" going on in this thread.. Yes we know that that is a plus for them, but come on. We got it the first time. Actually, we got it when everyone started posting about how ArmA2 is at the top of the Steam sales list. That's cool. Awesome sales are up. But in all honesty, I don't care about sales. BI has made games since 2001 that many people in the community have loved dearly. Back then, sales weren't great.. and we STILL received updates and content and great games.

Of course sales weren't that great in 2001 - 2003, that's why OFP + resistence sold 1.2 million copies.

[Binkowski 26]

Of course sales weren't that great in 2001 - 2003, that's why OFP + resistence sold 1.2 million copies.

And where were the posts on the Ikonboard forums raving about the wonderful sales and profits for BI at that time? Also, how many sales has ArmA II made since DayZ has come out?

[Pummel 10]

^ and they made those sales even though it was hindered by poor internet in the world. I always desperately wanted to play OFP but I never even bought it because I knew it would suck on my 56k connection - which was the best I could get at the time.

Anyway, another point I wanted to make in addition to my "hype kills progress" post above, is that the money that BIS earn from all the extra DayZ people, is not necessarily going to be a good thing for us. Success like that has a way of changing things, and there is a good chance that the bosses of BIS might end up thinking to themselves, "Why do we put all this money and effort in to making deep military simulations when we could just make a simple zombie game that sells like hot cakes??" If it was any other company, they would have ditched Arma3 by now and would be making a full version of Dayz2 to cash in on the popularity and mainstream appeal of zombie games. Luckily I think BIS are an anomaly in the industry because for some reason, they seem more interested in making great games than just 'selling out' like every other company does. But money is a big motivator so it does worry me.