Take On: Hinds!

[Derbysieger 11]

Multiplayer ;) learning to play with players that already know how things work.

[.kju 3244]

To get to together in a voice tool like Teamspeak or to use ingame voice.

Join a multiplayer session, do co pilot or crew and learn from others how it works. :)

[gabriel22 1]

well... my "multiplayer" shows 3-4 servers empty of players, just one host or editing.... I'm lost again...

[Derbysieger 11]

It needs to be coordinated of course. I'd be willing to help you but it would be cool to get some more players to join and I don't have much time to play atm so no promises here. I already played too much this weekend - I'm behind with important stuff xD Hinds are addictive :p

[gabriel22 1]

Finally, I'm just out of the race. This "Hinds" is a total mistery for me and it is nowhere explained how to play. I can control the helicopter, but I have no clue about how to destroy tanks, vehicles, whatever... my guns and gunner are useless, refueling and rearming work when they want, the enemies appear and destroy even my base without seing them on radar; even when I take old savings to replay, it happens sometimes that new enemies came and shoot me even if they were not there when I saved... like some random evolution of the game was loaded. I don't understand eigther multiplayer: a few empty servers, I can not even access all of them.

I quit challenges and "Hinds". Forget about money, the point is that it's just wasted time for me.

[Derbysieger 11]

Ehhhm... you give up quickly, do you?

I'm sorry you feel like you wasted time. Maybe you should take a break, relax and find someone who has time to help.

I explained in detail how you order your gunner to shoot things. If you didn't understand, just ask! A multiplayer training seesion needs to be coordinated. Don't expect to get help on a random server even though you might get lucky. I admit that it can get frustrating for new players but if you have a little patience and ask around I'm sure you will find help.

As I said before I'd be willing to help out but I need to find some time. It's not going to be this weekend anymore. Maybe you can find someone quickly but this is a very small community.

Best regards

Derby

[Derbysieger 11]

@Gabriel: I've got a video of a Base Assault challenge upcoming. Maybe it helps with your problems. You can target static defenses with missiles btw - don't know why it didn't work before. Maybe because it was an other Hind version...

[capt_morpheme 10]

Maybe that some of us is a beginner with BIS games.

For example I never played with ARMA and just purchase TOH to fly helicopters. I bought HIND but i really don't use it. I don't know how to instruct my CPG to fire weapons etc...

[Derbysieger 11]

Of course. That's why a multiplayer trainingsession was suggested.

Video is up with detailed description on how to assign targets for your gunner:

[Mr. Charles 22]

Not directly an ingame video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAPf3KbNIuU&feature=player_embedded#!

[jedra 11]

Thanks for posting the video - extremely interesting.

[instagoat 133]

Anybody got resources on how to operate this helicopter properly? Tactics, protocol, things like that.

Also, how the hell do they use their gun and rockets at range? When you watch irl videos, you see them peppering targets a kilometer plus away, I can´t even properly -align- on the target until I´m 400 ish meters away. What´s up with that? Also, shouldn´t have the cheek mounted cannon have more dispersion? D: Just askin´

[hon0 10]

Anybody got resources on how to operate this helicopter properly? Tactics, protocol, things like that.

Same here. Don't know how to fly these bird :o

[max power 21]

Here are some things I have noticed about the hind while playing:

The hind is most stable at high speed, so high speed attack runs seem to be the easiest to pull off.

When you are lining the helicopter up for a missile shot as the pilot, make sure your target is as close to the centre of your reticle as possible. This will ensure the highest probability of a hit.

Rocket attacks work very well on area targets from a distance. Aim slightly above the target area and let a volley off between 2 and 1 km and observe the effects until you are comfortable with range estimation. Once you're fairly good at it, you don't need to stick around to watch the rockets impact, you can simply reset for another run well out of reach.

The hind has very good dive accelleration at all speeds. To get out of dodge quickly, I would suggest diving. A consequence of this is that in a terminal dive for an attack at high speed, the helicopter will quickly overspeed and receive stress damage. Complicating matters is targets aquisition (in the OEM missions) is usually accompanied by all kinds of noise, distractions, and forced radio communication with Warmonger. Cruising at 75% collective at 300 km/h at 500m altitude followed by a terminal dive to target = 1 wrecked helicopter. Make sure that your airspeed, altitude, attitude, and heading are all in order before you commence your attacks. If you intend to dive on target, it is best to make sure you are going no faster than 250 km/h at the start of the dive, and you only stay in the dive to put shots on one target. Multiple engagements in the same dive = 1 wrecked helicopter.

In this sim in general, I have noticed that the best indicator of your accelleration, all things being equal, is your rate of descent indicator. Usually, if you are sinking, you are accellerating, and if you are climbing, you are decellerating.

In my experience in ArmA, the old style strela 2 missile launchers have very poor target tracking capability, and are only really dangerous head on and from the direct rear aspect. Doing attack runs in a figure 8 track minimizes your rear aspect exposure to the target area. Make an attack run, DO NOT overfly the target area, turn away no closer than 500m distance, make a wide 270 degree turn and then start a 2km, diagonal leg of your egress, then make another 270 degree turn in the opposite direction, and come in for another attack run, acquire your targets, fire from as far away as you dare, observe impacts if required (like with SACLOS missiles) and then turn away in a wide arc again for the egress leg of your figure 8 track.

Speed and distance are your friends. Shooting salvos of rockets into an area with open zsu-23-2 AAA guns will allow you to kill the gunners with spash damage before you are in range. Entering a diving turn at high speed is usually enough to avoid trouble from ground fire.

Hard turns with high collective should be avoided. I have found that a hard turn at high speed with high collective causes the aircraft to behave sort of like a stall in IL2. At any rate, high AoA maneuvers eat up your energy quite quickly and force you to accellerate again afterwards.

Mopping up remaining (helpless) infantry usually requires a direct flyover to get your gunner to identify the targets. You may get close and do all the silly things you can do in ArmA to kill people on the ground provided they don't have machineguns or AA weapons.

Taxiing can be accomplished by using small applications of collective, NOT forward cyclic. Cyclic causes torque to climb rapidly, and causes the helicopter to spin on its wheels (necessitating the application of anti-torque pedal), and does not actually give you much forward thrust. Applying cyclic gradually can allow you to taxi quite easily. Attempting a take off run like a fixed wing aircraft causes bumping sounds at a certain speed and I am not sure if that is the indicator for damage or not, but it's best not to taxi at high speeds at any rate.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Max Power

[hon0 10]

Thanks for the lesson Max :D

[.kju 3244]

While this video tutorial is in German and for OA, it is very well made.

Certainly helpful also for people new to OA/TKOH: Hinds.

> ArmA 2 OA/ACE: AH-64 Apache Tutorial (german) - YouTube

[instagoat 133]

What Max Power said is pretty much correct and good. The Hind isn´t designed for nap of the earth, pop up and pick off attacks like the Apache. I operate it more like I would an old IL-2 or IL-10 attack plane. Come in at speed, fire, break and pop decoys, retreat for another run, using terrain to conceal approach.

How do you fire precisely at such long ranges, though? Do you use externals? I can´t aim using the blobby, painted-on reticule, and the HUD overlay V seems to actually be offset from where the weapons are pointing.

What would interest me is how they bombed with these things. I´m a fan of the bomb-armed Hinds, and I´d love to see more complex armaments (The russians had a variety of bombs on these, including fuel-air bombs and pellet-canisters.) for it. I just don´t know how to do it properly apart from dive bombing or guesstimating by angle of attack, speed, altitude and target position relative to the cockpit.

[max power 21]

In the real thing, I believe one of the crew members had a bomb site but I'm not sure.

I aim using the same sight everyone is using. I just put the centre of the reticle over what I want to hit with rockets and shoot. The reticle is round and there is a centre. That's all you really need. You guestimate how much higher you need to shoot based on your distance. IRL I think it has a more complicated device with several modes.

[Scorlhov 1]

How do you fire precisely at such long ranges, though?

Not possible, you can just guestimate,we don't even have a slip indicator (very useful). We can just wait and hope for a more accurate (real) targeting system.

---------- Post added at 11:41 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

I aim using the same sight everyone is using. I just put the centre of the reticle over what I want to hit with rockets and shoot.

You are lucky, because if there is a little wind and/or your hind is slipping, your chances are very low to shoot at the targets.

Try to shoot a soldier at 300 m with fixed gun(mi-24P), at the first attempt :)

Edited April 4, 2012 by Scorlhov

[twisted 128]

what are the real HIND weapon systems like?

[Scorlhov 1]

what are the real HIND weapon systems like?

look at 0.33s/0.48s

Just a green cross (collimated)to center to line up on the target (not hard to do for BIS :))

I think that the green cross appears when your laser is on and the gunner designate the target, and you should have some indication (not sure) to know if you are in range or not, depending of the weapon select (gun/rocket)

Edited April 4, 2012 by Scorlhov

[max power 21]

Not possible, you can just guestimate,we don't even have a slip indicator (very useful). We can just wait and hope for a more accurate (real) targeting system.

Definte accurately.

You are lucky, because if there is a little wind and/or your hind is slipping, your chances are very low to shoot at the targets.

Try to shoot a soldier at 300 m with fixed gun(mi-24P), at the first attempt :)

Shooting with the fixed gun is not usually a problem for me, but I usually use rockets on troops and the cannon on light armour vehicles.

[Mr. Charles 22]

look at 0.33s/0.48s

Just a green cross (collimated) to line up on the target (not hard to do for BIS :))

I think that the green cross appears when your laser is on, and you should have some indication (not sure) to know if you are in range or not, depending of the weapon select (gun/rocket)

wow, thx for the video!

[instagoat 133]

look at 0.33s/0.48s

Just a green cross (collimated)to center to line up on the target (not hard to do for BIS :))

I think that the green cross appears when your laser is on and the gunner designate the target, and you should have some indication (not sure) to know if you are in range or not, depending of the weapon select (gun/rocket)

I just made a devheaven ticket suggesting improving this.

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/30073

The system is very similar to the one on the SU-25 (The gunsight itself is the same, too.) Once the laser is turned on, the crosshairs compensate for range and angle of attack, depending on the chosen weapons system. I think there are also CCRP modes for this sight system. (Ie, you lase the target, level the helicopter and hold the speed, and the gun computer will automatically release the bombs at the pre-computed release point to precisely bomb from level flight.) There are also a couple of other modes for accurate bombing/gunlaying.

Having this laser-based targeting reticule would be -extremely- helpful to engage at realistic ranges. You should be able to engage targets accurately from beyond 1000 meters with this. Right now, because of the non-functional sights and WW1 era targeting "computer" (mk1 eyeballing + guesstimation and experience), it´s hard to do anything even from beyond 500 meters.

I think it would -really- be pushing the limits of simulation for a civilian helicopter sim, and turn it more into a combat helo thing, but I think if you´re going to add a dedicated attack helicopter to a supposedly realistic sim, it´s fair to go all the way. The models are excellent, the flight model is fantastic. The only thing this is lacking in is systems simulation. That´s what I am hoping for.

[Scorlhov 1]

Definte accurately.

More precise. The gunsight has to be collimate, because if our view is not perfectly center (sometimes with Trackir our view i sligtly off) our aiming point will be wrong.

We need the help of a WCS(weapon computer system) with laser designatiion, because like you know, bullet and rockets have a curve trajectory, and depending of the distance of the target, the wing (direction/speed) and our speed, we need to aim at a different point, and with the laser designation we have just to center the gunsight to fire. The WCS will do the job for us :)

With the system like it is now, slighly similar to the sekta mode for the su-25, mig-29......(backup mode when the weapons computer system are damaged), we need to guestimate the aiming point depending of many factors, not easy :)

Firing ATGM through the scope :)

Edited April 5, 2012 by Scorlhov