Black hawk down -- the game

[Mister Frag 0]

From http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/06/10/war.games.reut/index.html

'Black Hawk Down' game planned

Controversy centers on accuracy, content

June 10, 2002 Posted: 9:34 AM EDT (1334 GMT)

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Coming soon: a video game based on the botched 1993 raid in Somalia now known as "Black Hawk Down" and etched in American memory after two dead United States soldiers were dragged through the streets of Mogadishu.

The company producing the game, Calabasas, California-based NovaLogic, said the game was patriotic, intended in part to educate the public about the U.S. mission in Somalia.

But some critics question that aim and whether the game risks blurring the line between history and entertainment and altering perceptions about the bloodiest firefight in U.S. military history since Vietnam.

Some even speculate it could lead to games about other tragedies -- maybe even September 11 -- and NovaLogic says it has a game in the works about U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan.

Mark Bowden, the author of "Black Hawk Down" the best-selling book about the Somali raid, said he declined to be involved with the game because it was not in line with his purpose in writing the critically acclaimed non-fiction book.

"We were approached by them and I just told my agent I didn't want to be involved," Bowden told Reuters. "To me there's a qualitative difference between making a game and telling a story."

NovaLogic said the upcoming military adventure game "Delta Force -- Black Hawk Down" would center around a series of U.S. commando raids against Somali warlords, allowing players to take on the role of special forces troops.

In the real-life battle that inspired the book and a hit movie based on it, U.S. troops hunting for Somali warlord Mohamed Farah Aidid entered Mogadishu on October 3, 1993, and were caught in a fierce firefight after a Black Hawk helicopter was shot down. A total of 18 soldiers were killed.

"The whole notion that you would make this part of your entertainment regimen strikes me as a little creepy," Prof. Robert Thompson, director of the Center for the Study of Popular Television at Syracuse University, told Reuters.

NovaLogic said it would publish a version of the game for PCs in the fourth quarter of this year, with versions expected for Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 2 and Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox in 2003.

'Logical progression'

Marcus Beer, a spokesman for NovaLogic, said the last mission of the game is the one depicted in "Black Hawk Down," though he said it will steer away from the actual fate of that mission so as not to offend anyone, and will exclude scenes of bodies being dragged through streets.

Creators of the "Black Hawk Down" game say they will alter the ending so as not to offend anyone.

"For us this is actually a logical progression," he said. "This is our take on the whole 'Operation Restore Hope'," he added, referring to the name of the American military's early-1990s operations in Somalia.

"We've had a lot of positive feedback from the military community about this," Beer said, noting two former members of the elite Delta Force are advising NovaLogic on the game, including one commando who actually fought in Mogadishu.

He also said a version of "Delta Force 2" is in use as a training exercise at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, and that the company has a retired Air Force general on its board.

The game "re-educates people to a certain degree" about the U.S. mission in the strife-torn east African country, he said.

Beer also said the company will be donating a part of the proceeds from sales of the game to two military charities, with specific details on those recipients expected soon.

NovaLogic is also working on a "Delta Force" game that allows players to fight as U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, and in late May the U.S. Army unveiled a game it is designing that will allow users to take on the role of American soldiers in typical combat missions.

[FetishFool 0]

Sorry, I didn't read the article you posted. But I got into an arguement about this the other day.

The main concern was the fact that ALL the enemies are black.

Which would lead narrow-minded people to think the battle was based on culture, instead of liberation.

And the shooting of kids is never a-okay.

I completely support this game. If parents don't want their dumbass children or idiot adult friends to play the game, then don't let them.

That's not the solution, but it's better than terminating the BHD game project.

[Wobble 1]

And the shooting of kids is never a-okay

see how long that belief holds up when they are shooting at you

thats what pissed me the most over there, they KNEW the US was really really not into shooting at women and children, so henever some milita man gets shot a women or kid runs out and retrieves his rifle to give it to someone else.. or starts using it themselves, they knew that (for at least a hwile) the US troops would hesitate to fire on the kids and women getting the guns, that didnt last long however

The main concern was the fact that ALL the enemies are black

yea and all the enemies in Vietnam were vietnamese, all the enemies in the gulf war were arabicish.. etc etc so what? its a historical fact, not some shit someone made up.

[Antichrist 0]

There are no civilians in the battlezone!!

[FetishFool 0]

I'm not saying that *I* have anything against what happened in Mogadishu or the fact that everyone was a negro. It's what the protesters see that matters.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I already posted this 24hrs ago, yet noone noticed. Click and see my thread.

[Sweeper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FetishFool @ June 11 2002,07:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry, I didn't read the article you posted.  But I got into an arguement about this the other day.

The main concern was the fact that ALL the enemies are black.

Which would lead narrow-minded people to think the battle was based on culture, instead of liberation.

And the shooting of kids is never a-okay.

I completely support this game.  If parents don't want their dumbass children or idiot adult friends to play the game, then don't let them.

That's not the solution, but it's better than terminating the BHD game project.<span id='postcolor'>

If they all are black they are easy to see in the light but when the dark comes.

Get more ammo and shoot non-stop, all around you.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FetishFool @ June 11 2002,08:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The main concern was the fact that ALL the enemies are black.<span id='postcolor'>

What's the problem? Just develop the game so that you can play it from either side.

[FetishFool 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ June 12 2002,03:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I already posted this 24hrs ago, yet noone noticed. Click and see my thread.<span id='postcolor'>

lol

I think everyone had a headache at the exact same time.

Because when you posted that thread, there were a lot of people viewing this forum but very little posting.

I didn't post much because I had a killing headache.

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

''patriotic''

I think if they aim for this then the game won't be very accurate at all. Without wanting to be anti-american they aren't exactly known for their high standard of maintaining the accuracy and truthfulness of their histories. True with most other countries as well though, but they change other peoples histories as well (eg Braveheart, That Irish Film...).

Maybe now this will expand into computer games and the number of games that aim to be majorly patriotic will increase.

[arkadeyevich 0]

NOOOOOOOO

I hope this game never get made. Not that I have anything against using the american missions in Somalia as a background, but this one is made by Novalogic, and their games tend to suck. I would like to see a Black Hawk Down game made by someone other than Novalogic.

The Delta Force/CS crowd will probably love it.

[Hilandor 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ June 10 2002,11:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">''patriotic''

I think if they aim for this then the game won't be very accurate at all. Without wanting to be anti-american they aren't exactly known for their high standard of maintaining the accuracy and truthfulness of their histories. True with most other countries as well though, but they change other peoples histories as well   (eg Braveheart, That Irish Film...).

Maybe now this will expand into computer games and the number of games that aim to be majorly patriotic will increase.<span id='postcolor'>

ehh the only thing that wasnt historically correct with braveheart was the love affair that took place and her being killed.

the battles were correct, the reasoning behind william wallaces revenge was correct (because he witnessed all the clan leaders hanging from a barn roof after english conned them)

and obviously some dialect was incorrect but the main just of the story was what happened.

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hilandor @ June 11 2002,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ruud van Nistelrooy @ June 10 2002,11:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">''patriotic''

I think if they aim for this then the game won't be very accurate at all. Without wanting to be anti-american they aren't exactly known for their high standard of maintaining the accuracy and truthfulness of their histories. True with most other countries as well though, but they change other peoples histories as well   (eg Braveheart, That Irish Film...).

Maybe now this will expand into computer games and the number of games that aim to be majorly patriotic will increase.<span id='postcolor'>

ehh the only thing that wasnt historically correct with braveheart was the love affair that took place and her being killed.

the battles were correct, the reasoning behind william wallaces revenge was correct (because he witnessed all the clan leaders hanging from a barn roof after english conned them)

and obviously some dialect was incorrect  but the main just of the story was what happened.<span id='postcolor'>

The fact that that princess wasn't even born when wallace was crusading, plus later invaded scotland with her own army made the film a bit stupid. William Wallace was also a wealthy landowner who mainly rebelled to protect his land. The irish never stopped and joined the Scots at that battle, in fact they charged headfirst into the scots and there was much slaughter as a result of that charge. People also say Wallace was killed fairly quickly through torture, probably not in front of the masses, and probably didn't shout freedom with his insides being ripped out.

I could say more but i can't be arsed finding the magazine with all this stuff in  

I remember there was a history channel documentry entirely dedicated to saying braveheart was a load of bollox

[habdoel 0]

how to change the history part 1:

Make a movie Pearl Harbor:

let the americans fight back? Where i was in the history class?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (habdoel @ June 11 2002,13:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Where i was in the history class?<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe catching up on your homework for the following English grammar class?

[Prune 0]

This has turned into a 'Aren't films unrealistic' thread. I am afaid there is no use opposing the media tide. America won WWII single-handedly (including stealing the Enigma device) etc. William Wallace saved the scots etc. The moon is made of cheese etc...

Everyone learns things from (mostly american) movies these days.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Prune @ June 11 2002,11:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This has turned into a 'Aren't films unrealistic' thread. I am afaid there is no use opposing the media tide. America won WWII single-handedly (including stealing the Enigma device) Everyone learns things from (mostly american) movies these days.<span id='postcolor'>

U571 is fiction and explicitly states it. In what movie has the U.S won WW2 singlehandledly?

[WKK Gimbal 0]

Hell, US are the biggest fact-benders since Nazi Germany. It makes me puke.

[Prune 0]

The general public are inherently idiots, even if you state it was fiction they will wander out believing what they saw. Media is a dangerous tool.

[Ruud van Nistelrooy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ June 11 2002,17:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Prune @ June 11 2002,11:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This has turned into a 'Aren't films unrealistic' thread. I am afaid there is no use opposing the media tide. America won WWII single-handedly (including stealing the Enigma device)  Everyone learns things from (mostly american) movies these days.<span id='postcolor'>

U571 is fiction and explicitly states it.  In what movie has the U.S won WW2 singlehandledly?<span id='postcolor'>

Theres shedloads of them - films where all the terror and suffering and heroism is experianced only by the americans and the other alliance armies are ''Overrated''. They depict the second world war as if it was solely the Americans fighting the Germans, which is pretty arrogent considering the yanks missed a large portion of the fighting and didn't actually win the war for the allies, and weren't firebombed etc etc...

The U-571 thing was sick, the families of the Brits who died on that mission complained and the producers told them to fuck off and wouldn't acknowledge that it was the British that died in that mission. cunts