Is The Mossad planning another USS Liberty

[walker 0]

Hi all

There are increasing signs of anger in the White House that Israel is attempting to: fool the US into attacking Iran or vice versa, with a False Flag operation; after the release of information on Government memos, describing a false flag operation by the Mossad that was discovered by and angered the previous Bush administration:

False Flag

A series of CIA memos describes how Israeli Mossad agents posed as American spies to recruit members of the terrorist organization Jundallah to fight their covert war against Iran.

BY MARK PERRY | JANUARY 13, 2012

Buried deep in the archives of America's intelligence services are a series of memos, written during the last years of President George W. Bush's administration, that describe how Israeli Mossad officers recruited operatives belonging to the terrorist group Jundallah by passing themselves off as American agents. According to two U.S. intelligence officials, the Israelis, flush with American dollars and toting U.S. passports, posed as CIA officers in recruiting Jundallah operatives -- what is commonly referred to as a "false flag" operation...

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag

As always follow the link to the article in full

Multiple sources:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151720

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086570/Israeli-intelligence-agents-posed-CIA-recruit-operatives-Irans-nuclear-program.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=253550

It also comes as Western Inteligence sources point the finger at Israel for the assasination of an Iranian Scientist:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/western-intelligences-sources-tell-time-magazine-israel-s-mossad-targeted-iranian-scientist-1.407322

It is believed that the release of the memos was meant as a shot across the bows of the current Israeli government and security services operations not to contemplate continuing such operations as happenend to the USS Liberty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

Kind Regards walker

Edited January 14, 2012 by walker
an NOT and (Damn Predictive Text)

[Fox '09 14]

absolutely disgusting.

edit:

I've reformed my opinion, but I will quote my own comment at the time so there is context to the following discussion

Helen Thomas is probably right, they should pack up their country and ask for amnesty in Europe. They've caused enough trouble in the middle east, and you can't solve a religious conflict by creating a big middle finger surrounded by muslims. They've done nothing to create peace.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Fox '09

[Variable 322]

How does that got to do anything with the USS liberty? You might want to consider the titles you put for your posts Walker.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Variable

[walker 0]

Hi Fox '09

While the current Israeli government may be a bunch of tossers the fact that so many Israeli's and Israeli media are also castigating the current Israeli government for such actions means it is realy just a minority that support the current Israeli administration.

Kind Regards walker

---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------

How does that got to do anything with the USA liberty? You might want to consider the titles you put for your posts Walker.

In reply to Variable

The USS Liberty was another well known False Flag operation that also angered the USA.

The concept has been mooted here:

http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Opinion/Article.aspx?id=252675

And discussed here:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/14/iran-usisraeli-false-flag-attack-may-be-underway/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=iran-usisraeli-false-flag-attack-may-be-underway

And when a mass of US agents start dropping hints like the ones in the first post they do so because they were told to.

Kind Regards walker

Edited January 14, 2012 by walker

[STALKERGB 6]

The USS Liberty was another well known False Flag operation that also angered the USA.

Was it a false flag operation? I mean even if you want to believe it was a deliberate attack Israel didn't pretend to not be Israel did they? Also the words "False Flag" aren't mentioned in either of your links about the incident.

Anyway about this Israel story, is it really news? I mean the only difference here is that the information has come out. I can't imagine that they are the only intelligence agency on the planet that pretends to be other nations/agencies from time to time.

While the current Israeli government may be a bunch of tossers the fact that so many Israeli's and Israeli media are also castigating the current Israeli government for such actions means it is realy just a minority that support the current Israeli administration.

And yeah this is the problem with "packing up their country" as fox mentioned, most of the Israelis are gonna be normal, decent people, just like every other country. They all have their nutters, and typically these are the ones who get the attention (or a seat in office lol)

Edited January 14, 2012 by STALKERGB

[walker 0]

Hi all

There have been questions about why Israel attacked the USS Liberty for many years websites by those who served on the USS Liberty and their families ask precisely that:

http://www.gtr5.com/summary_of_events.htm

http://www.uss-liberty.com/2011/12/04/false-flag-uss-liberty-israels-forgotten-war-crime-wakes-up/

That it was a failed False Flag operation where the intended target got away and the Crew said who attacked them has been discussed across the net and on various media sites, papers and books.

That a senior member of the Israeli military is mooting a "Pearl Harbour Scenario" as a pretext:

...Elimination of Iran’s nuclear facilities? Yes. This part would turn out to be the final act, the grand finale. It might have been the major target, had the US initiated the attack. However, under this “Pearl Harbor†scenario, in which Iran had launched a “surprise†attack on the US navy, the US would have the perfect rationalization to finish them off, to put an end to this ugly game...

http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Opinion/Article.aspx?id=252675

As always follow the link to the original article in full

Lends weight to the current belief that this action by the US in releasing the memos content was meant to send a shot across the current Israeli Government and Intelligence communities bows.

Kind Regards walker

Edited January 14, 2012 by walker

[Nicholas 5]

The Israeli government has been playing the US government for a while now. I think the US should pull all support of countries over there. We are only going to be dragged into another war unless the government does something about it. Which is why I am a supporter of Ron Paul.

Today, however, hundreds of thousands of our fighting men and women have been stretched thin all across the globe in over 135 countries – often without a clear mission, any sense of what defines victory, or the knowledge of when they’ll be permanently reunited with their families.

Acting as the world’s policeman and nation-building weakens our country, puts our troops in harm’s way, and sends precious resources to other nations in the midst of an historic economic crisis.

Taxpayers are forced to spend billions of dollars each year to protect the borders of other countries, while Washington refuses to deal with our own border security needs.

Ron Paul National Defense

Edited January 14, 2012 by Nicholas

[Dead3yez 0]

Here comes WW3. Be ready.

[solidsnake2384 10]

Bum bum buuuuuuuuuummmmmmm!!!!!!

[walker 0]

Hi all

False Flag operations are very risky and are often caught leading to the exact opposite effect to that intended. The Mossad attempted these methods again in the infamous Lavon Affair:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

And suffered dire consequences as a result.

Clearly running up behind your allies back in order to sucker punch them, and then blame it on those you want them to fight, is not a way to win friends and influence people.

The current Israeli government seems to be acting like a rogue regime, and from the Israeli peoples reaction as well as the Israeli media's it is clear that the current Israeli government is wearing out its welcome.

Kind Regards walker

Edited January 15, 2012 by walker

[b101_uk 10]

It’s like the kettle calling the pot black the USA saying that of another country, or do as I say not as I do!

Just another Walker much ado about nothing thread based on third-rate supposition from Chinese whispers from a country that likes to be seen to be clean but is far from it. ;)

[reconteam 19]

The attack on the USS Liberty was not a false-flag operation. Why? Because the premise behind that theory is downright foolish. The Israeli aircraft and ships involved were clearly marked and not using proper anti-ship weapons. Instead they were armed with napalm. Napalm is terrifying stuff, but it isn't effective against a steel ship. Everything is indicative of a few assets in the area scrounged together and sent to attack a target that was wrongly identified. Yet the attack was called off when somebody competent realized what had occurred and acted upon it.

It it was a false flag operation wouldn't the Israeli aircraft have been unmarked and armed with bombs capable of sinking the vessel? The pro-Israel lobby in the United States wasn't nearly as powerful as it is today. Yet I am to believe they could get Congress to ignore an intentional attack and then join the war on the side of Israel? At the time an order of A-4 Skyhawks was pending. This was important because it was the first military equipment sold directly to Israel. They would risk this and the promise of future deals in some mad plot designed to get the United States to invade Egypt or something?

Back then, the IAF wasn't nearly as capable as they were today. There were some veteran pilots but most were green and all didn't get much training in target identification beyond looking for the Israeli flag. They didn't have anything like all of the communications and command systems we have today. On several occasions throughout the Six-Day War, Israeli aircraft mistakenly attacked IDF forces on the ground. Incompetence is the far more likely explanation. Despite being originally identified as an American ship, somebody changed the designation of the USS Liberty to "unknown." Later, somebody else ordered an attack based off all sorts of conflicting and mistaken reports coming in from along the coast. At worst, maybe one or a handful officers came up with this idea and attempted to execute it to bring America into the war. Yet the idea that it was a plot orchestrated by the Israeli government is just foolish.

Why do many Liberty crewmen blame the Israelis? Because they want somebody to blame and rightfully so. As far as I know, nobody was publicly held accountable. The investigation was rushed through in an attempt to avoid worsening relationships, yet that only made things worse in the long-run.

Edited January 15, 2012 by ReconTeam

[Fox '09 14]

And yeah this is the problem with "packing up their country" as fox mentioned, most of the Israelis are gonna be normal, decent people, just like every other country. They all have their nutters, and typically these are the ones who get the attention (or a seat in office lol)

I don't doubt that the people are good - but the idea of an israeli state was wrong in the first place, and if they really want peace I think the only paths are another hundred years of religious-motivated conflicts and terrorism, or dissolving the state.

I am slightly swayed by walkers point, especially today's administration is very right wing and not doing anything to help the process. My thoughts will never become policy, and i get that. I am rooting for the people of Israel to do the right thing, and try their best to resolve the situation. I just don't think it's worth it.

[PELHAM 10]

absolutely disgusting. Helen Thomas is probably right' date=' they should pack up their country and ask for amnesty in Europe. They've caused enough trouble in the middle east, and you can't solve a religious conflict by creating a big middle finger surrounded by muslims. They've done nothing to create peace.[/quote']

Wouldn't this be ethnic cleansing? (it's one step removed from genocide and a bit distasteful) I know that Israel does not exactly have a clean record on this sort of thing either, but, are you seriously suggesting an entire 8million population is collectively blamed and ethnically cleansed from a geographic region based on their race/religion and ethnicity?

Also, as the US was the original driving force behind the creation of the State of Israel, shouldn't the US take a share? I hear there is a great deal of space in the US where lots of Indians used to live not too long ago?

If we follow this sort of argument it's not only Israel that would have to pack up and leave is it? There would be many unhappy people packing a suitcase across about 2/3rds of the world. How far back would you you go in the historical record before people are allowed to stay where they are and are absolved of collective guilt for something that happened in the past?

I made a resolution not to comment much in the offtopic forum this year but seeing as others are asleep at the wheel I could not really let this sort of bigotry pass unchallenged.

[maturin 12]

Ignore him, he's an ignoramus.

There was a substantial Jewish population in Palestine long before the foolhardy creation of the Israeli state, with a very diverse cultural and political makeup.

The 'destruction of Israel' doesn't mean kicking all the Jews out, in actuality it means the end of Israel as an ethnic state that exists for Jewish people, as opposed a modern state that exists for its citizens.

The right wing political forces that have so successfully hijacked Israeli politics and who claim to defend Israel are in fact hastening its demise. By choosing to control land rather than seek peace, they are making it increasingly likely that the Palestinian population will outnumber the Israeli population before any settlement is reached. At which point Israel will either cease to be a Jewish state, or it will cease to be a democratic state, and the apartheid metaphor will be fully realized. And at that point, what's the difference between Israel and Syria?

Of course, Palestinian hardliners are equally aware of this, and have reason to delay peace as well. Both groups fanatically pursue religious-national missions rather than the well-being of the vast majority of their countrymen.

If we follow this sort of argument it's not only Israel that would have to pack up and leave is it? There would be many unhappy people packing a suitcase across about 2/3rds of the world. How far back would you you go in the historical record before people are allowed to stay where they are and are absolved of collective guilt for something that happened in the past?

Very true. But to play the devil's advocate, the crime of Israeli ethnic cleansing is in fact still being perpetrated, by denying its victims the right of return. So it's not a distant crime of the shadowy past, but an ongoing process that has been carried out without interruption by the same state and social forces. And remember, Jewish victims of ethnic cleansing during the Arab-Israeli War have in fact already exercised their right of return, in Hebron for instance. A Jewish community there was destroyed in the war, so now Jewish fundamentalists have moved back in force. Edited January 15, 2012 by maturin

[walker 0]

Hi all

Better if we keep the thread on the subject; which is the US administration's warnings to Israel not to get involved in False Flag operations that inflict harm on its allies.

The fact that US agents are coordinating a release of information on evidence of Israeli false flag operations shows that they are doing so by the instruction of a White House that has considerable degree anger and exasperation with the current Israeli administration.

It is not the first time that a US administrationhas been angered by Israel's use of a false flag operation that was detrimental to US interests or dangerous to their citizen:

...According to one retired CIA officer, information about the false-flag operation was reported up the U.S. intelligence chain of command....The report then made its way to the White House, according to the currently serving U.S. intelligence officer. The officer said that Bush "went absolutely ballistic" when briefed on its contents.

"The report sparked White House concerns that Israel's program was putting Americans at risk," the intelligence officer told me. "There's no question that the U.S. has cooperated with Israel in intelligence-gathering operations against the Iranians, but this was different. No matter what anyone thinks, we're not in the business of assassinating Iranian officials or killing Iranian civilians." ...

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/are-americans-assassinating-iranian-scientists

As always follow the link to the article in full

The USA has made the situation clear:

... "We don't do bang and boom," a recently retired intelligence officer said. "And we don't do political assassinations." Israel regularly proposes conducting covert operations targeting Iranians, but is just as regularly shut down, according to retired and current intelligence officers. "They come into the room and spread out their plans, and we just shake our heads," one highly placed intelligence source said, "and we say to them — 'Don't even go there. The answer is no.'" ...

Ibid

The possibility that some foolish people at the extreme edges of politics and the shadier possibly semi private parts of the military in the US may be contemplating involving themselves in such operations may also be a factor in the White House's apparent anger.

Kind regards walker

Edited January 15, 2012 by walker

[[evo] dan 79]

If you read a history book, you will find that the state of Israel existed roughly where it was back in Roman times. This in my opinion gives them as much right to live there as the arab's. It also seems to be the logical place to put the Jewish state too. Israel isn't the best behaved nation, but it certainly isn't the worst behaved. The US has done bad things, Britain has done bad things...etc etc

However if you move them, then you should also move people who did not have a state for years either, the Polish, Palestinians as well as several other nations.

[maturin 12]

Dan;2089973']If you read a history book' date=' you will find that the state of Israel existed roughly where it was back in Roman times. This in my opinion gives them as much right to live there as the arab's. [/quote']

Of course, extending 'the right to live' to 'the right to annex territory for a state' is utterly insane by any legal, moral or practical standard, or when applied to any other real-life situation.

[[evo] dan 79]

Of course, extending 'the right to live' to 'the right to annex territory for a state' is utterly insane by any legal, moral or practical standard, or when applied to any other real-life situation.

of course, but it still was the logical place to put them (and as I recall it was a British colony still when they started moving back there)

[maturin 12]

Dan;2089977']of course' date=' but it still was the logical place to put them (and as I recall it was a British colony still when they started moving back there)[/quote']

The logical place was the United States, a pluralistic country where the Jews wouldn't have to fight to survive, were there wouldn't be a state founded against the wishes of millions of its citizens, were no one would have to be punished or dispossessed because of fascist crimes.

Not to mention the fact that the UN didn't "put" Jewish people anywhere. There were already a lot of them in Palestine, pushing for a state. Carving up that piece of territory in a grand humanitarian gesture (aka, colossal foolhardiness and colonial arrogance) was bereft of any shred of logic.

[Fox '09 14]

Wouldn't this be ethnic cleansing? (it's one step removed from genocide and a bit distasteful) I know that Israel does not exactly have a clean record on this sort of thing either, but, are you seriously suggesting an entire 8million population is collectively blamed and ethnically cleansed from a geographic region based on their race/religion and ethnicity?

Also, as the US was the original driving force behind the creation of the State of Israel, shouldn't the US take a share? I hear there is a great deal of space in the US where lots of Indians used to live not too long ago?

If we follow this sort of argument it's not only Israel that would have to pack up and leave is it? There would be many unhappy people packing a suitcase across about 2/3rds of the world. How far back would you you go in the historical record before people are allowed to stay where they are and are absolved of collective guilt for something that happened in the past?

I made a resolution not to comment much in the offtopic forum this year but seeing as others are asleep at the wheel I could not really let this sort of bigotry pass unchallenged.

Perhaps what I said wasn't describing exactly what I meant. I was trying to paraphrase what helen thomas said.

I do think people should leave the country if they want peace. If they want to stay, they stay as the country dissolves itself. It's absurd to suggest that the people who live there are responsible for any of it, but so long as there are jews there, there is going to be conflicts. Without a Jewish state then there would be a much better chance of peace. As I said, it's a big middle finger. not the jewish people, but the state itself. Mind you not everyone in Israel is Jewish, though an overwhelming majority is.

I also don't care what country takes the jewish people. The US should take the most responsibility though, they're the ones who have been funding and perpetuating the state.

Nobody is suggesting that jewish people should be killed or removed from the area. That hatred belongs to religion. When people seek refuge, yes, they do carry suitcases, that's kind of how it works does it not?

This discussion is indeed not very relevant to the thread, if you have interest perhaps PM me or start another thread.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Fox '09

[Hans Ludwig 0]

The US should take the most responsibility though' date=' they're the ones who have been funding and perpetuating the state.[/quote']

Hold your horses there, partner. It was the Brits that created this situation.

[Fox '09 14]

Hold your horses there, partner. It was the Brits that created this situation.

I'm not disputing that, but I think overall we're carrying israel's water more than the brits ever have. Do they even give foreign aid to Israel? This article is a testament to that. We may have been furious internally but I don't see any serious repercussion from this.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Fox '09

[maturin 12]

Nobody is suggesting that jewish people should be killed or removed from the area. That hatred belongs to religion. When people seek refuge' date=' yes, they do carry suitcases, that's kind of how it works does it not?

[/quote']

Well I'm on the subject of insane Zionist fairy tales, here's a useful example of a non-Zionist fairy tale that is insane when applied to any other conflict. Should every Chinese person leave Tibet? All the Russians out of Kaliningrad? Or every American out of Alaska, or does that exceed the convenient 1940s time limit?

Hold your horses there, partner. It was the Brits that created this situation.

After how many years of anti-Zionist policies? It was the legitimacy of the UN and the military aid of the US that really counted.

Edited January 16, 2012 by maturin

[Fox '09 14]

Well I'm on the subject of insane Zionist fairy tales, here's a useful example of a non-Zionist fairy tale that is insane when applied to any other conflict. Should every Chinese person leave Tibet? All the Russians out of Kaliningrad? Or every American out of Alaska, or does that exceed the convenient 1940s time limit?

.

If they think they are unsafe, absolutely they should leave. I didn't know I was the spokesman of the Israeli people. I said they should go back to europe and the US, never said they will or have to. I object to the state of Israel because it is a jewish state (obviously). If it was secular I would be more inclined to help but I don't think the rest of the region cares for the difference. Secularism needs to come at the grassroots. The region wasn't ready for it, and I still don't think it is.

I don't want a single taxpayer dollar going towards a middle finger in the region. That's my bottom line. I could care less about the religious conflicts. The US is a majority religious nation, and they will never give up supporting Israel. Hence why I think Israel should dissolve. How that policy is enacted, by what country, I don't care, so long as it is peaceful.

Show me a good argument and I will consider amending that belief. I don't know if you guys know this, but I'm the most open minded man In America. :p

I mean it though. If you see a serious problem in what I'm saying then please point it out. I like this conversation.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Fox '09