Friendly Ai are worse shots that Enemy Ai

[logandog1240 10]

No, that's wrong.

On the micro level the AI understands cover, suppression, flanking and bounding overwatch.

I mean fluidly human like, not 1 ai behind a wall and the rest "wondering" around helplessly waiting for a sniper to put a clean shot on them. Anyone remember the sceen from blackhawk down when the mg starts firing and instinctively everyone runs behind a building. The Arma 2 Ai will NEVER, I MEAN NEVER do anything close to that, they will crouch look at the mg, go prone crawl around, maybe fire 2 shots back, and in the process lose most of the squad, they have an almost decent (no where near good, conmmand system), But NO!!!!!!!! instinctive human like behaviour to keep them alive.

They have no idea when they're in a firefight, and to shoot anyone they see as a legitament enemy, with a priority list (squad leaders, MGs, Marksmen, etc), vs moving through a crowded village, when they should listen to the squad leader as in shoot SPECIFICALLY this ai and not the other.

When you watch combat footage, and see a squad leader talking to a single subordinate during a firefight, the other men arent just sitting there getting gunned down, and walking around casually with their gun raised, they are behind cover doing things they know they should do without being specifically told.

Let me be absolutely frank here, ARMA II AI ARE TERRIBLE, THEY ARE THE BEST WE HAVE IN A GAME SO FAR, BUT THEY ARE STILL TERRIBLE.

Edited December 17, 2011 by logandog1240

[maturin 12]

That scene in Blackhawk Down took half a dozen takes to get right, and that's with intelligent humans in a scenario they already know by heart.

Yes, the AI in ArmA will and do all run for cover.* If they have a move waypoint or a rigid formation at the same time they will get mixed up, but let's leave that aside.

But they will all take action to find cover. I hope you're not in the military, because if you go sprinting for the nearest barn to hide in every time you hear a gunshot, you're going to get kicked out pretty fast.

Sometimes you have to get to safety as soon as possible, no matter what. Like in Blackhawk Down. But this is rare. Most times the best solution is to drop to the ground. Or try to find the source of the fire. Or stay put and cover your friends while they bound to cover. Or return with suppressive fire.

Please realize that expecting a computer to discern between these scenarios is not possible. Not with a sumpercomputer, much less your dual core from Best Buy.

If the AI acted like you wanted them to, they would be useless in every situation except your one specific scenario. But this game has cities and forests and deserts and helicopters and tanks. It has to work all the time, and there is a price for that.

*The problem is that defining cover is very difficult without hogging system resources. The AI can't evaluate a dozen possible destinations and decide whether they are safe from a dozen potential threats. This is why you will see them 'in cover' on the wrong side of a wall or behind a skinny lamp post.

[logandog1240 10]

QUAD CORE

AND the fact that the ai cant be better doesnt mean they dont suck.

Let me give you a metaphor, if my village is dying of ebola and there is no cure, life sucks.

If my village is dying of aids now the fact that i can live with it still means it sucks, even though its better still means its terrible.

[froggyluv 2130]

^^^ Simple metaphor is simple.

Thus, according to that logic, the whole world has AIDS as there is no AI capable of doing the above without fail -so at least our village is attempting to charter into unknown territory by advancing the cure (AI) while others settle for scripted (false cure).

[maturin 12]

QUAD CORE

AND the fact that the ai cant be better doesnt mean they dont suck.

Let me give you a metaphor, if my village is dying of ebola and there is no cure, life sucks.

If my village is dying of aids now the fact that i can live with it still means it sucks, even though its better still means its terrible.

The AI doesn't suck and it isn't the best it can be.

But you are expecting it to behave in a certain way without being aware of both the human and technical limitations involved.

[logandog1240 10]

^^^ Simple metaphor is simple.

Thus, according to that logic, the whole world has AIDS as there is no AI capable of doing the above without fail -so at least our village is attempting to charter into unknown territory by advancing the cure (AI) while others settle for scripted (false cure).

i am trying to advance im saying the AI suck, we need to fix/ make them better, im not saying the ai suck dont play the game there is no hope

[froggyluv 2130]

Of course everyone wants better AI -thats a given. But just coming in here and declaring "This AI sucks a$$!" -isn't really doing anything to help improve the AI or giving the Dev's any real substance of what/how to improve.

Igneous01 type tests on the other hand are extremely helpful as they pinpoint specifics.

[maturin 12]

i am trying to advance im saying the AI suck, we need to fix/ make them better, im not saying the ai suck dont play the game there is no hope

I thought this topic was about the AI beating you.

[logandog1240 10]

Of course everyone wants better AI -thats a given. But just coming in here and declaring "This AI sucks a$$!" -isn't really doing anything to help improve the AI or giving the Dev's any real substance of what/how to improve.

Igneous01 type tests on the other hand are extremely helpful as they pinpoint specifics.

Im giving my own experiences, and mine are just as relevant as him, im saying my ai dont do this and this, hes saying if you put this code in they do.

I thought this topic was about the AI beating you.

Dont troll, im talking about how enemy ai dont do this either, ive went through whole missions picking off stragling AI.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

OP is fail trolling hard.

I have no problem with the AI after using Igneous01's method. Sure, they're not 100% lifelike (and never will in a hundred years at least) but they're not anywhere as bad as you say.

[metalcraze 290]

I thought this topic was about the AI beating you.

Haha well spotted.

I find it funny though. A few days ago one dude complained that AIs rush for cover too much instead of killing him and today another dude complains that AIs don't rush for cover enough

Well jeez if you command a squad and it loses to a squad commanded by an AI the problem is not in AI.

Dont troll, im talking about how enemy ai dont do this either, ive went through whole missions picking off stragling AI.

Weren't you talking about your whole squad being wiped out by an enemy AI and now you go through whole missions like a rambo? Make up your mind

anyway, as for you commanding ai - best thing to do is to split members into teams, order teams to suppress, and 1 team to move, and keep bunny hopping in this fashion and progress will be made. or you can try an L-assault, with main line of fire suppressing fire, and 1 team moving in on flank to engage them from closer range and destroy them.

And it indeed works well

With ASR AI fireteams also share enemy contacts so they aren't separate entities like in vanilla anymore

Edited December 17, 2011 by metalcraze

[Beagle 684]

I dont know it would be nice to be able to say 3 on breach u go left 4 go right and 5 on me. Not just 5 move 50 meters west. and when it gets there its basically a rock with a gun.

You have just given proof that you don't know the4 basic of ArmA group management. It can't work the this way. Split teams into fire teams red green, blue oder the treanms to space out, order fire at will and combat mode 2 "stay alert"...ans slow down to walk.

wiping out a squad that loiters around in one place is easy, one grenade will do that.

Use simple infabrty sqad tactics, those do worl 1:1 in ArmA. In case you were not tought such tactics in any kind of military servivve look for US army documents in the internet, most of the basic training documents are free available.

Hell, what youre trying to do is win the battle with 18. century line infantry tactics. Albeit with proper fire and movement and three lines of grenadiers even that would work in arma.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Beagle

[wipman 1]

Hi, on the close combat the friendly AI seem to be less effective than the NME AIs by their own, but that's because you are not giving 'em orders constantly to tell 'em what to do; with the proper (and constant) orders the friendly AIs are exactly as good in everything as the NME AI.

The problem is that you can't manage every unit as fast as the AI; but remember that every chained order won't be done by the AI until the voice for it has been heard. You can check this last part easy by entering in a chopper and ordering your AI gunner to switch weapons, no matter how fast you press the imput that nothing will happen until the AI has passed by all the chained orders, as order the gunner to switch from Hellfires to Cannon again on a AH1-Z in example. Let's C ya

[maturin 12]

Actually, orders are heard instantly, but subsequent orders are delayed until the voice file finishes playing.

Unless you have ACE, which removes the voices and lets orders come all at once.

[logandog1240 10]

another thing i dont like is the dependency of ai, if a special forces team breaches a room the sq leader doesnt have to say 2 attack ...., 3 attack..... its an instinctual knowledge thats trained into them, and should be somewhat emulated in the ai

[Beagle 684]

another thing i dont like is the dependency of ai, if a special forces team breaches a room the sq leader doesnt have to say 2 attack ...., 3 attack..... its an instinctual knowledge thats trained into them, and should be somewhat emulated in the ai

8-2 = staggered column

7-2 = danger

3-5 = fire at will

with these three order you're good to go.

issue only once, thats enough, but you have to do it once.

[logandog1240 10]

thats wishfull thinking, when you walk into the room the ai will run around the house trying to find a random entrance not the one you walked into, and they will take about 20 sec to engage an enemy.

[wipman 1]

8-2 = staggered column

7-2 = danger

3-5 = fire at will

with these three order you're good to go.

issue only once, thats enough, but you have to do it once.

Hi, the problem with the formations is that the AI at your command don't take dinamic formations; they only go in formation related to the direction that they were created.

If the AI were created looking North, when you're looking East and order 'em to take the Column (Close) formation... they gonna be facing North, so if you're looking to the East... they all gonna be at your right, like in Line formation. So they may not be able of return fire effectively. Let's C ya