flight model editing

[Fergus 1]

Can someone link to instructions for installing the new xml files. Sorry if I missed it. I just got the game today and I am new to BI modding. I've been flying FSX up to now. Thanks!

---------- Post added at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 10:45 PM ----------

Found some ArmA online tutorials for addons and mods. More to this than I first thought! I'll get to studying.

[Trigen 10]

Just extract the Hsim folder into your root TOH folder

Under Steam\steamapps\Common\something if your using steam

[Fergus 1]

Thanks. I'll try it now

[Trigen 10]

Noticed even with damper settings at 0 and the latest RC patch there is visible and noticeable input lag in the game. Its not a great deal (10 MS perhaps) so its perfectly flyable but you can clearly see the stick in game react slower than your inputs.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Trigen

[armored_sheep 56]

Animation of the stick in the cockpit is visual state/efect that is not processed in absolute sync with flight model simulation.

[Trigen 10]

Thats true, tho if your in First person view out of the helicopter however the mouse feels very sluggish and it would be next to impossible to play a fps shooter. Something to look into in the future. (its difficult to even open the helicopter door due to this)

Running a Amd 6970 cata 11.11 with no AA or Post effects on 40-50 fps triple head

i7 @4 ghz

[hon0 10]

Be sure to desactive the V-Sync, smooth on Mouse, and may be the Max frame ahead.

[armored_sheep 56]

We found an issue with Light heli settings when performing take off training from rooftop on trainee difficulty - some strange torque damage apeared on main rotor when helicopter become light on skids.

Attached a new version with reduced main rotor swash plate range (revert to original). The collective limits and tail rotor settings remain as in RC1. Also Medium helicopter remains the same as RC1.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Armored_Sheep

[OMAC 254]

Oh boy. Playing on Expert with kb/mouse, my first impressions of xml RC2 are very bad. It represents a near complete change from the original - which has huge implications. Light and medium helis drops out of the sky with 0 collective, and even with 50% collective the helis drop fast, requiring careful increase of collective using Q key to brake fall on landing (rather than quick taps of analog collective), which totally changes gameplay for the worse. With brief 100% collective induced by analog collective key, helis spin ridiculously to the right while wobbling, making use of that key nearly useless. The medium heli is very twitchy, and both helis require massive left pedal to fly straight (manual trim set helps). This behavior may be more realistic, but I have no desire to relearn how to fly from scratch in the same helis. Sure I could get used to these FMs with extensive practice, but....why should I have to? I think that since the game has been released for almost 2 months, some continuity with the existing FMs should be maintained. I think the existing FM is far better than this one, and at least I am used to it, having played 75% of the career campaign using it. I also think Nightstalkers’s first mod FM is WAY better than this one.

Repro: try a pinnacle landing with the medium heli with this FM using kb/mouse. NOT!

This FM isn't even a beta, but a release candidate? :eek: What happened to the beta releases? I just found this thread buried in the forums, so I guess I have been out of the loop since the 3rd Community mod FM (which several of us determined is 100% unworkable for kb/mouse). This makes me very uneasy indeed. The thought of asking for my $$ back for ToH if this is the new FM came to mind.

Again, this is just a first impression (~30 minutes of gameplay), but the changes to the FMs seem DRASTIC for kb/mouse, and should be revisited in their entirety. Back to the drawing board.

Edited December 15, 2011 by OMAC

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

make a backup of the 1.02.86094 HSim folder if you are that uneasy.

one thing I do like for the Medium heli is that zero collective requires some right pedal input.

I will have to run my test mission (slingload) and compare 1.02.86094 with rc1 and rc2 before I can make any criticisms.

Edited December 15, 2011 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-

[armored_sheep 56]

Again, this is just a first impression (~30 minutes of gameplay), but the changes to the FMs seem DRASTIC for kb/mouse, and should be revisited in their entirety. Back to the drawing board.

Sorry but you probably have wrong expectations about expert difficulty. I would never expect that someone will try to control compex flight model of helicopter with mouse/keyboard. Those controlers can be used on lower dificulty settings where the game autotrim assists. Increased torque/pedals use and increased descent speeds with collective at 0 are intentional for this patch.

[beepee 10]

Sorry but you probably have wrong expectations about expert difficulty. I would never expect that someone will try to control compex flight model of helicopter with mouse/keyboard. Those controlers can be used on lower dificulty settings where the game autotrim assists. Increased torque/pedals use and increased descent speeds with collective at 0 are intentional for this patch.

Can't agree more! Mouse&keyboard are not a heli controllers. Keep up a good work Armored_Sheep.

[armored_sheep 56]

I tweeked the tail rotor ranges a bit on Light and Medium heli.

If anyone will not find any serius issue here (braking gameplay in original missions) theese will be final patch values.

Also one more note to OMACs observations - Ground effect will be reduced in patch 2. This is done in program not by any XML settings.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Armored_Sheep

[OMAC 254]

Sorry but you probably have wrong expectations about expert difficulty. I would never expect that someone will try to control compex flight model of helicopter with mouse/keyboard. Those controlers can be used on lower dificulty settings where the game autotrim assists. Increased torque/pedals use and increased descent speeds with collective at 0 are intentional for this patch.

You're kidding, right? We've been using kb/mouse to control "complex flight model" on Expert for months and having lots of fun. Are you saying that the current FM in patch 1.02 is NOT a "complex flight model"?

DnA wrote many months ago that it was the full intention of BIS to allow full play with kb/mouse. Apparently that has gone by the wayside? Perhaps this FM could be applied if a controller is detected, and another FM applied if one is not?

I also thought that big FM changes would be in the third patch, not the second.

Yes, Maruk mentioned that the ground effect would be reduced for this patch, which is good.

Ziggy, thanks for the backup. That will be a first for me, having to patch a game back to an earlier versioin. WTF??!!!!! Unless I am missing something, this seems fubared. Again, what happened to the beta patches? It's impossible to test the new FM + ground effect without a full beta patch.

---------- Post added at 08:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 AM ----------

If anyone will not find any serius issue here (braking gameplay in original missions) theese will be final patch values.

How can we test if missions are broken without the modified ground effect?

Edited December 15, 2011 by OMAC

[Sylle 1]

You're kidding, right? We've been using kb/mouse to control "complex flight model" on Expert for months and having lots of fun. Are you saying that the current FM in patch 1.02 is NOT a "complex flight model"?

DnA wrote many months ago that it was the full intention of BIS to allow full play with kb/mouse. Apparently that has gone by the wayside? Perhaps this FM could be applied if a controller is detected, and another FM applied if one is not?

I also thought that big FM changes would be in the third patch, not the second.

...

OMAC,

It's a pity you would refuse to use these updated XMLs... We heard from the real chopper pilots on the forum that the required control inputs in real life have to be very subtle and as smal as possible. How can you expect to achieve this using keypresses for the collective and pedals??

The updated RC XML files makes the handling of the light and medium heli so much more enjoyable here (using a joystick) that I would in fact suggest you to buy a simple joystick controller for TOH... I sincerely doubt you would regret it.

These changes are also more finetuning of the existing XML files as Armored_Sheep told us that RLIB4 would only be implemented next year allowing for more realism in the simulation of the helicopters behavior (and therefore the big FM changes too).

I personally really appreciate the fact that BIS tries to make their choppers behave as close as possible to their real counterparts...

Regards,

Sylvain

[Fergus 1]

I'm also delighted that the flight dynamics receive continued adjustment. I want the expert model to evolve to be as close to real world behaviour as possible.

Thanks for the hard work producing these updates.

[OMAC 254]

I personally really appreciate the fact that BIS tries to make their choppers behave as close as possible to their real counterparts...

Me too, but shouldn't that have been implemented before the game was released, or at least after release and testing of multiple betas, like in A2/OA?

http://www.arma2.com/beta-patch.php

[maddogx 13]

Me too, but shouldn't that have been implemented before the game was released, or at least after release and testing of multiple betas, like in A2/OA?

http://www.arma2.com/beta-patch.php

Woulda, coulda, shoulda? Bit too late for that now. ;)

Peeps are screaming for a more authentic flight model, so they're implementing it. Better late than never.

[Sylle 1]

...

Better late than never.

Exactly! :)

S.

[zentaos 10]

That's like saying " I want my iPad to behave like my Commodore64, 'cause that's what I learned at the beginning of computing, that's the way it should stay!"

Joking aside, whatever it takes to get closer to realism gets two thumbs up!

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

I have been saying all along I use keyboard and mouse on expert difficulty settings.

fyi, I prefer peanut butter delights, they have a miniature Reeses cup inside! :bounce3:

[OMAC 254]

That's like saying " I want my iPad to behave like my Commodore64, 'cause that's what I learned at the beginning of computing, that's the way it should stay!"

Joking aside, whatever it takes to get closer to realism gets two thumbs up!

So patch 1.02 is a Commodore64? How insulting to BIS! You must have felt like a moron for buying such a cheesy, outdated game. :D

Patch 1.02: have fun playing game after months learning to fly on Expert

Patch 1.03: struggle for weeks learning new twitchy flight model; downheartedly consider having to replay all of campaign, challenges, and time trials, as all progress made using Commodore64 FM rendered candy-ass and invalid by "realistic" new flight model which is awesome with controllers but maddening and unnecessary with kb/mouse.

But all the other changes in 1.03 sound very awesome and will improve the game significantly.

---------- Post added at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 PM ----------

Woulda, coulda, shoulda? Bit too late for that now. ;)

Peeps are screaming for a more authentic flight model, so they're implementing it. Better late than never.

You got that right! No use complaining now. But I thought I'd get in a few words in the hopes of having a real ToH beta program in the future as promised.

I'm not one of those screaming peeps. I thought that a few minor tweaks, especially to ground effect, would have done the job, at least for kb/mouse.

With a grand total of ~2-3 people in these forums who play with kb/mouse, I don't blame BIS for moving in this direction. But for us lowly controller-less souls, the next month will prove to be very interesting indeed.

Edited December 16, 2011 by OMAC

[beepee 10]

OMAC, why wont you buy a joystick? :) It's really worth it. It feels so much better then kb/mouse, it's so much more imersive, so much easier to control heli with it. And it's not expensive piece of equipment. You will never fly a heli so precisely with kb/mo as with joystick no matter if its current FM or the new one.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

He can have mine for free :p, just pay shipping and handling (east coast US)

Edited December 16, 2011 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-

[beepee 10]

Ziggy, you DO HAVE a joystick and you fly with kb/mouse?! :eek: