Flight dynamics (important issues)

[ta.maximus 10]

I will buy the game because of this thread. Thanks to all involved.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

In the editing/config forum section, Armored Sheep has produced some Medium helicopter flight model changes (betas) in hsim (drop-into-rootfolder) format.

That poor thread doesn't appear to be getting the attention it deserves. Please try and give feedback (there).

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2065391&postcount=38

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2067158&postcount=41

[4 IN 1 0]

I personally wish the discussion to carry on in addons thread or editing/config thread, but the activities in those part of the forum doesn't seems to be enough for getting attention, I don't think it would be a great idea for them to stop posting here.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Do you see where I suggested the discussion of feedback be carried on (there)?

I am merely linking there from here, to remind.

Considering the effort the Dev is providing on this Medium FM, I expect more feedback from the community. (again, feedback there in the thread the FM change was provided)

Edited December 6, 2011 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-

[jedra 11]

Personally I think it's OK for the discussion to be here, but any released code should really go in the Addons & Mods discussion part. Little bits of code are getting lost I fear because they are getting lost here, there and everywhere.

If each of the user configs had it's own thread in the Addons & Mods Discussion section then the authors could keep the first post updated with the latest version. When it is finalised then a post can be made in the Complete section - just like with the Arma forums.

[Isaac 10]

Hey Ziggy,

This is very much appreciated, I missed those posts (gaaaau!! there is a world outside the general thread :D)

[armored_sheep 56]

I posted in Editing section recent patch candidate XML config.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=126795&page=5

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2069541&postcount=48

If someone would like to re-play original missions with those new settings and write his feedback it would be helpfull.

[Isaac 10]

I posted in Editing section recent patch candidate XML config.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=126795&page=5

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2069541&postcount=48

If someone would like to re-play original missions with those new settings and write his feedback it would be helpfull.

Cool!! thanks, I will give it a try now :)

[DeadlyDave 10]

iv tried the medium new xml and i like it alot much more stable and less right roll with it. iv been using it in the editor practising slingloading and am able to pick up and drop off barrals into the back of the flatbed truck without auto hovor!! its not easy and feels right not perfect but alot better. iv got many years with flightsims and use joystick and ch rudder pedels. this alone armoured sheep is making me enjoy TOH for the first time.

on a side not one problem i do have which makes things hard is the control lag, i move my stick but the in game reactions are lagging behind by about half a second which means your alway having to correct your own over controlling,any ideas how to fix this?

many thanks

Dave

Edited December 9, 2011 by DeadlyDave

[twisted 128]

I posted in Editing section recent patch candidate XML config.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=126795&page=5

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2069541&postcount=48

If someone would like to re-play original missions with those new settings and write his feedback it would be helpfull.

awesome.

:magiccarpetride:

[jeremymtc 10]

on a side not one problem i do have which makes things hard is the control lag, i move my stick but the in game reactions are lagging behind by about half a second which means your alway having to correct your own over controlling,any ideas how to fix this?

many thanks

Dave

Hi Dave,

Are your controllers USB or gameport? If USB, have you tried using a port connected directly to your motherboard?

[Slain 10]

Hi Dave,

Are your controllers USB or gameport? If USB, have you tried using a port connected directly to your motherboard?

If your using an Nvidia card you need to change your render ahead setting in your profile. This setting directly impacts controller lag. Try 0 instead of 3.

[armored_sheep 56]

I believe that this so called "controler lag" is related to one XML setting - the controler rotational dampener. When I removed it, helicopter reacted quicker but the autotrim settings were broken. So if you are skilled pilot and you think you dont need autotrim, try editing my XMLs and reduce those control dampeners to zero.

[DeadlyDave 10]

hi and thanks for your replys guys my joystick is a wireless usb stick which works fine in fsx ect, i am flying on expert level with manual trim etc. if i can figure out how to alter the xml ill give the a try and report back.

again many thanks

Dave.

[DeadlyDave 10]

report back is good changed the setting you sugested and it seams alot better and flyable only issue i see now is the collective not being able to find that sweet spot im either going up or down ever so slightly.

[armored_sheep 56]

report back is good changed the setting you sugested and it seams alot better and flyable only issue i see now is the collective not being able to find that sweet spot im either going up or down ever so slightly.

Axis for collective should have no deadzones and sensitivity should be set linear (center of the bar as default).

[Isaac 10]

Hi,

I'm sorry but I have to report the same issue here.

In Nightsta1ker mod number 1 hovers in IGE where dead on, the helicopter always settled smoothly on the top of the cushion, in Nightsta1ker mod number 2 (with 101_UK work added) my IGE hover always suffers from a slow up and down movement cycle inside the cushion.

The annoying thing is that even when trying to counteract the effect by adding / subtracting collective it becomes impossible to stop the helicopter wobble due to the response delay.

This doesn't refer to the joystick configuration, I have my dead zones at 0 and the throttle response as linear.

On the other hand the rest of the flight model starts to feel really nice.

[hon0 10]

Same feeling. I feel Good with my Cyclic Hand hand but not really yet with my collective's one. I should try to make somehing like this !

[b101_uk 10]

it may be because the lower point of the collective is <8 (default >8 <17.3) in Nightsta1ker mod & Patch2_XML_RC1, which has a strange effect on the collective behaviour as if >8 <17.3 is the pre-programed positive range elsewhere and if its <8 it becomes strange, hence why with the collective fully down the torque reading is higher then as you move it up slowly the torque drops (as if winding off pitch) until it reaches the approximate ~8 reading (collective) which is the lowest torque thus least pitch before rising again, the net effect is a shortening of the range of effective collective movement for the >8 <17.3 or <18 zone making the joystick collective more sensitive to each input.

also the range of forward/rearward cyclic is wrong and leads to torque damage and an unnatural amount of lift from the front/rear of the disk at zero collective, both (Nightsta1ker mod & Patch2_XML_RC1) have +20 and -20 range which is just wrong as it represents 40deg, the total degrees of movement is in real life 24deg to 27.8deg total, of which it is made up of forward 17º to 18.5º, aft 7º to 9.3º and also NOT all the forward amount of 17º to 18.5º is available to use its available for the cyclic to trim into during forward flight, a more realistic value and keeping in mind joysticks that something in the range of ~ >9.3º to <14º should be used hence keeping symmetry so when you start the game things don’t race forward/backward when you rise the collective given we don’t have indexed trim-wheels or other indexed trim methods to set take-off trim, instead we have to imply trim when the game starts to be near enough that required for a hover (trade-off between game vs. real life)

If you think logically if you are trying to force +20 and -20 range into a blade that only has e.g. 18deg – 4deg = 14deg total or 17.3deg – 8deg = 9.3deg total you are going to come unstuck mathematically before you account for any foreshortening/crossover of that range by collective input vs. cyclic inputs etc.

This is why I didn’t change the values in my power update/example and commented the info in and put a note about keeping symmetry assuming people wouldn’t jump for the larger values of symmetry forward/backward like is more appropriate for left/right cyclic.

But then what do I know.

[armored_sheep 56]

b101 notes are right, but for patch there are no better values. New RLIB4 is comming, but not this year. So what do you prefer, this tweek of light heli, or no change?

[Sylle 1]

A_S,

Although I don't have any real-life experience with helicopters (only fixed wing aircraft) I personally very much prefer your tweaked patch candidate XML over the default flight models...

Further improvements with RLIB4 are welcome of course but your tweaks will do just fine in the meantime...

Regards,

Sylvain

[Isaac 10]

+1

Independently if BIS releases or not the patch I will continue using the XMLs from the RC... (why not add the RC in to the patch 2 with some sort of note about the temporary nature of the fix...)

In my opinion the so called patch number 3 should be based on RLIB4 and specially on feedback from B101_UK, Nighsta1ker (I guess he is working on something else right now) and generally speaking people with real world experience with giant vacum cleaners...

Isaac

[DeadlyDave 10]

by far this flight model is better imo i still i think the transition from hover to forward flight the right roll is a bit over the top but that might be realistic but i would have thought the right roll would increase with airspeed if much at all.

[armored_sheep 56]

XML patch release candidate nr.2 is out - check http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2071992&postcount=58

[Isaac 10]

Cool thanks!