Bloody american goverment

[FUBAR 0]

Looks like the truth is starting to come out, about the American secret service knowing about the terrorists prior to 911.

Information was passed to the White House, FBI, CIA and god knows who else, about the suspected plan to highjack a plane or a number of planes, they were also given the identity of a number of the terrorists involved, weeks before 911, but they just sat on that information, someone said that they did not suspect that the USA was going to be the target, so there was no urgency to clarifiy the information.

WTF!..........No Urgency! for the love of god, what gives any nation, agency, or person the right to decide what information should be passed on regarding any suspected terrorist act? irrespective if your countrys security is not concidered to be at risk.

Now we see that the US security services are now having their balls hung out to dry, and a new closer working relationship is to be formed between those services, I just wonder how many people had the information at hand and did nothing? I hope those bastards that had the information, have a very hard time sleeping at night now!

And yes I know there are spwelling ewors!

[WKK Gimbal 0]

Yeah, well - everything looks awfully clear in a review mirror. They might have gotten 1000s of reports about possible terrorists - how where they to know that this particular one was the big thing. What I can't understand is why some people always tries to go back in time and find mistakes others have made, instead of focusing on how to do it better next time.

[Antichrist 0]

So they knew? Does it change anything? I don't think so!

Now if they get warnings like those they will act, but back then they didn't believe that coould happen

[FUBAR 0]

The annoying point is, it was not just the one agency that decided to sit on the information! (by all accounts it goes right to the top) also because the USA was not thought to be the target for the highjackings "they" did not feel that they had any need to check things too urgently or pass that information on to other nations that could have been considered at risk!

Yes I agree that it is easy to look back and see the wrongs, but for such a government like the USA, or infact any goverment to ignore information like that falls on the side of total incompetence.

Maybe if there wasn’t that built in suspicion and paranoia between their own agency’s, maybe just maybe 911 may never have been able to happen, and for that FBI or CIA agent to say that “because the USA was not the likely target for these highjackings, it was considered that there was no urgency to check this information out†comments like that can only re-enforce peoples view of the USA “that if it isn’t in the USA’s interests then screw themâ€

Yes a lot of lessons are going to be learnt from this, and not just for the USA, every country will learn from the mistakes made leading up to 911, but lets face it “it was a very expensive mistake to learn fromâ€

[MDRZulu 0]

Prior to 911 no country would have made any changes to a threat like that anyway.

[Iepers 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ June 04 2002,02:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What I can't understand is why some people always tries to go back in time and find mistakes others have made, instead of focusing on how to do it better next time.<span id='postcolor'>

I love the Coulda wouda shoulda people too!

Cheers.

[Hardliner 0]

Might have ignored it on perpose. Maybe they wanted this so they could go bomb someone (again) and have an excuse to go after Iraq and other places and groups.

Or maybe as has been said maybe its only when USA's interests are affected directly.

[ralphwiggum 6]

this only proves one thing that most american(and rest of the world) talked about

Bush is dumb.

I'm not surprised due to the fact that US intel agencies are so infatuated with their own self that they missed signs like this, althought those signs would not have yielded very much either.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Might have ignored it on perpose. Maybe they wanted this so they could go bomb someone (again) and have an excuse to go after Iraq and other places and groups.

<span id='postcolor'>

Not a personal slam here...but that is tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff. The idea that the US government would not have stopped the 9/11 attacks, in order to start a war is ludicrous. If it had been purely a strike at military facilities, and miraculously no one had been hurt I -might- believe it. If it was a dozen suicide bombers in train stations or restaurants or sporting events, I might give credence to just letting it happen to further some sort of shadowy agenda.

But the destruction of the WTC? It's is harder to fathom a government that might let that happen than it is to imagine that anyone would be insane enough to do such a horrific thing in the first place.

Add to that that if they DID let it happen, we wouldnt be hearing any of this hindsight driven second guessing.

[Longinius 1]

"Not a personal slam here...but that is tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff. The idea that the US government would not have stopped the 9/11 attacks, in order to start a war is ludicrous. If it had been purely a strike at military facilities, and miraculously no one had been hurt I -might- believe it. If it was a dozen suicide bombers in train stations or restaurants or sporting events, I might give credence to just letting it happen to further some sort of shadowy agenda."

America (and other nations) have sacrificed people before in order to achieve their goals. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to do it again. However I don't think its the case this time, they could have had a "smaller" terrorist attack and still gotten the same authority and support in attacking the Taliban and Al Queda.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ June 04 2002,08:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Might have ignored it on perpose. Maybe they wanted this so they could go bomb someone (again) and have an excuse to go after Iraq and other places and groups.

<span id='postcolor'>

Not a personal slam here...but that is tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff.  The idea that the US government would not have stopped the 9/11 attacks, in order to start a war is ludicrous.  If it had been purely a strike at military facilities, and miraculously no one had been hurt I -might- believe it.  If it was a dozen suicide bombers in train stations or restaurants or sporting events, I might give credence to just letting it happen to further some sort of shadowy agenda.

But the destruction of the WTC?  It's is harder to fathom a government that might let that happen than it is to imagine that anyone would be insane enough to do such a horrific thing in the first place.  

Add to that that if they DID let it happen, we wouldnt be hearing any of this hindsight driven second guessing.<span id='postcolor'>

I doubt the knew the exact place where the attack would be.... Anyway, it has happend, we cant do anything about it, and if we look in history.... America have allways failed to learn from its mistakes, so we will properly see this kind of thing again overthere.

sad.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ June 04 2002,08:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Not a personal slam here...but that is tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff.  The idea that the US government would not have stopped the 9/11 attacks, in order to start a war is ludicrous.  If it had been purely a strike at military facilities, and miraculously no one had been hurt I -might- believe it.  If it was a dozen suicide bombers in train stations or restaurants or sporting events, I might give credence to just letting it happen to further some sort of shadowy agenda."

America (and other nations) have sacrificed people before in order to achieve their goals. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to do it again. However I don't think its the case this time, they could have had a "smaller" terrorist attack and still gotten the same authority and support in attacking the Taliban and Al Queda.<span id='postcolor'>

Good point. I cant help but remember the conspiracy theory that FDR had full knowledge of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, but didnt do anything about it, so that US would be forced into the war on the Allies side. It is believable on the surface, but when you start to look closer, the theory begins to fall apart. If the case was that FDR really knew, couldnt he have informed the armed forces to be ready, and achieved the same result? An act of war is an act of war, and a pitched battle over Pearl Harbor would have had the same effect on the American people as a surprise attack would. Also, having our forces ready would have left us in position to better conduct the war that FDR supposedly wanted us to get in to.

Same with the WTC and Pentagon attacks. Supposing the government did know, what would have been the purpose of having so much damage caused just so that we could topple a 3rd world government? They could have just as easily allowed planes to be hijacked, but shot them down before they reached their targets, or if you think the government is really devious, they could have just let one of the planes hit- maybe let the Pentagon plane hit, or maybe just one of the WTC planes. There would have been less damage caused to America, but the people would have been equally outraged.

The point is, these conspiracy theories, while they look good on the surface, dont hold water when you really examine what motives, what means, and what goals a conspiracy theory might entail. My take on the WTC attacks was that it would have been preventable, but our government was caught asleep at the switch. If you will remember what was going on pre-9/11, everything was great. I mean, the economy was good, everything was normal, and the biggest concern for people was where Chandra Levy was and who was going to win Survivor. Now, of course everything was going to be slacking off. Why would the government want to allow something like that interrupt such a desirable status quo? Maybe to boost Bushs popularity? Sounds like we have us a conspiracy- until you remember that the same result could have been achived with much less damage caused. So there you go.

[Yoda 0]

*Wobble points finger at several different people (you know who you are*

Fucking idiots

[Tex -USMC- 0]

well hello there Yoda *wink* *wink*

[Yoda 0]

I finally got it to work!

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Yoda @ June 04 2002,08:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*Wobble points finger at several different people (you know who you are*

Fucking idiots<span id='postcolor'>

I thought that Yoda was supposed to be a wise man, not a wise ass

Anyway, I really think that a notion of a WTC conspiracy is ridiculous. If the US goverment did know something and didn't do anything it is out of incompetence and not out of some political/strategic reason. The fact that Bush isn't the brightest guy on the block doesn't help of course...

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Yoda @ June 04 2002,08:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I finally got it to work!<span id='postcolor'>

you mean, "Got it to work, you did"

[Wobble 1]

Bush is much smarter than most people give him credit for.. after all what makes him dumb? not being able to name )by sight) a few obscure figures? choking on a pretzel?

so anyone who has every choked on a piece of food, or doesent know the secretary of defence of Zimbobwei is a moron..

LOL

not to mention all the "bushisms" you see now, most of which are either from someone else or totally made up.

You dont become a extreamley successful business man, and eventually president of the US by being an idiot. As much as many of you twats would like to belive that. At least he doesent have a drunk car driver and kill himself by hitting a cement pillar while running from someone with *gasp* a camera, or live his life doing nothing off the goverment tip, or downsize the military to the point to where its the laughing stock of the western world.

[Longinius 1]

"Around the survivors a perimeter create."

: ) I didn't know wether to cry or laugh when I heard him say that one.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ June 04 2002,08:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

I agree that intelligence is a relative thing. With wobble standards, Bush is a regular genious!

Am I being mean now?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

so anyone who has every choked on a piece of food, or doesent know the secretary of defence of Zimbobwei is a moron..

<span id='postcolor'>

More like the president of Mexico and the premiere of Canada.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">not to mention all the "bushisms" you see now, most of which are either from someone else or totally made up.

<span id='postcolor'>

And a whole lot of them are not.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You dont become a extreamley successful business man, and eventually president of the US by being an idiot. <span id='postcolor'>

His father was a successful businessman, Bush was a pathetic excuse for a businesman that burnt a lot of his family's money.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As much as many of you twats would like to belive that.  At least he doesent have a drunk car driver <span id='postcolor'>

Well, he *was* arrested for drunk driving.

As for real life points against Bush's incopetence: look at his Mid East policy (what policy?). Look at his economical policy ("if we lower the taxes the government will get more money").

Not to say his plans for Iraq and numerous violations of international agreements.

The only comforting thing to know is that the majority of the American public was smart enough not to vote for him.

[Longinius 1]

"Bush is much smarter than most people give him credit for.. after all what makes him dumb? not being able to name )by sight) a few obscure figures? choking on a pretzel?"

Well, mistaking Africa for a country is pretty stupid. Then there is the incident in Japan where he just happened to say the wrong word and affected an entire nations currency. We can disregard all the stupid comments he has made and all insane remarks that make little to no sense. If you want examples, they are all over the internet.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"He [Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi] said I want to make it very clear to you exactly what I intend to do and he talked about non-performing loans, the devaluation issue and regulatory reform and he placed equal emphasis on all three." —George W. Bush, who had meant to say "the deflation issue" rather than "the devaluation issue," and accidentally sent the Japanese Yen tumbling, Tokyo, Feb. 18, 2002<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." —George W. Bush, at a news conference in Europe, June 14, 2001<span id='postcolor'>

"You dont become a extreamley successful business man, and eventually president of the US by being an idiot."  

Well, with a famous and rich father you can get pretty much anywhere.

"As much as many of you twats would like to belive that.  At least he doesent have a drunk car driver and kill himself by hitting a cement pillar while running from someone with *gasp* a camera, or live his life doing nothing off the goverment tip, or downsize the military to the point to where its the laughing stock of the western world."

Well, I am quite sure Dianas IQ was a bit higher than good ol' Bushes. And she did more good than he will ever do, most likely. And she spouted out less moranic remarks to. Just to bad she was lousy at picking drivers.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ June 04 2002,08:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You dont become a extreamley successful business man, and eventually president of the US by being an idiot.  As much as many of you twats would like to belive that.  At least he doesent have a drunk car driver and kill himself by hitting a cement pillar while running from someone with *gasp* a camera, or live his life doing nothing off the goverment tip, or downsize the military to the point to where its the laughing stock of the western world.<span id='postcolor'>

He ran his oil business into the ground. He also ran for public office before his dad was pres. He lost. Guess how he did after his dad was pres? He has relied on his family for everything his entire life. He made mediocre grades in grade school, but was accepted to Yale (which his dad attended, and is now a patron of), he made it through college with "a Gentlemens C", a reputation as a partier, and his sole accomplishement being that he was captain of the cheer leading squad . He got his own business (purchased and financed with family funds for the most part) which he ran into the ground by about 1985. Then, with suddenly nothing to do, he helped his dad campaign for the presidency. He also ran for state rep, and was defeated. He purchased the Rangers baseball franchise, and, despite what you hear, almost runs itself, especially if you are in a large market. So, he finally decides to run for governor, and coincidentally, has a campaign staff consisting almost entirely of his dad's staff; a dream team of Beltway insiders. They run a flawless campaign, and defeat the incumbent dem (Ann Murray). Then, he uses a mostly Republican state House, a good old boy charm, and cutthroat politics to build himself up. then, hes reelected, with his one real distinctive accomplishment being that under his guidance, Texas set a record for number of people executed. Then, he throws his hat into the presidential race, and for a while is considered the anointed candidate, and runs an easy going campaign that lets its money (which it had a shit load of) speak for itself. Then, McCain gave him a slap in the face in New Hampshire. To prevent the same thing in S. Carolina, Bushs campaign piled on the advertising, and got back the momentum. From there, it was soundly Bush's race. And everyone knows the story from there. What Im saying is, Bushs life is based on mediocrity, in fact, hes developed an art of it. He wasnt even very good at being an alcoholic: He quit drinking because he didnt like the hangovers.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ June 04 2002,09:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What Im saying is, Bushs life is based on mediocrity, in fact, hes developed an art of it. He wasnt even very good at being an alcoholic: He quit drinking because he didnt like the hangovers.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL! Very well put Tex, all of it.

I followed the American presidential election with great interest. I must say that Bush came across as a very likable person, unlike Gore who was uncharismatic as hell. The thing is that the vote for the presidency should be more then a high school popularity contest. Bush was likable, but Gore was competent.

And people worry about Pakistan and India having nuclear weapons

[christophercles 0]

And Still america is the most powerfull nation in the world, and nobody can do anything about it. Even people making fun of americas president.

[Longinius 1]

"And Still america is the most powerfull nation in the world, and nobody can do anything about it. Even people making fun of americas president."

I doubt this is something Bush can take credit for though.