Bloody american goverment

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (christophercles @ June 04 2002,12:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And Still america is the most powerfull nation in the world, and nobody can do anything about it. Even people making fun of americas president.<span id='postcolor'>

So sweet!

Shouldnt you be in school?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

America is underestimated by most people. I mean, Americans are stupid, selfish, and dont care about anything but their cable TV and summer vacations, right? Americans dont have a history, and dont appreciate anyone elses, right? How can they have the most powerful nation in the world? The answer is simpler than you might think.

We arent like that, but we are similar to it. The reason america is what it is is because most americans work hard at what they do, and whatever they do (unless its being a lawyer) contributes to something that makes America great, be it its economy, its infrastructure, or its security. We are willing to do what it takes when the time comes, but mostly we just want to be left alone.

Americans are intelligent, and we have some of the best schools in the world, and a huge number of people from other countries coming to America to get an education. The creme rises to the top, so we dont have Jerry Springer guests in the Oval Office, even if we have them on our TVs. We just want to do our jobs, In fact, my opinion is that the desire to just not have anyone fucking with them is a big goal in many americans lives. And the best way to be left alone is to be the biggest kid on the block, and thats we have become, and thats what we are, at least for now.

Now, eventually someone is going to give us a wake up call, this happened in September, unfortunately we completely misinterpreted it, so I think that we are going to have to wait for another go around, unfortunately. We need to reevaluate where we stand with the rest of the world, and we need to do it fast.

The homefront also needs some work. We need to figure out what exactly our principles are, and we need to stick to them. When a president lies under oath, and then waltzes out of office only because the Republicans trying to convict him were blinded by their own single-minded hate for the guy, and the whole thing makes highly watchable TV, you know you need to evaluate what you stand for, and you need to figure out if thats what you really want to stand for.

I dont fuckin know whats wrong with america right now, but I know something is. Its the million fuckin dollar question lol. Im not sure, but it feels kind of like inertia. Like we are just going on with the whole America thing because weve been doing it for a century or two. We have everything we need, and almost everything we want (you dont really ever have everything you want- thats a driving principle of economics), but something is missing. Ill get back to you when I figure it out

But I digress... looks like I let my mouth hang open a bit too long lol

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ June 04 2002,12:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">America is underestimated by most people. I mean, Americans are stupid, selfish, and dont care about anything but their cable TV and summer vacations, right? Americans dont have a history, and dont appreciate anyone elses, right? How can they have the most powerful nation in the world? The answer is simpler than you might think.

We arent like that, but we are similar to it. The reason america is what it is is because most americans work hard at what they do, and whatever they do (unless its being a lawyer) contributes to something that makes America great, be it its economy, its infrastructure, or its security. We are willing to do what it takes when the time comes, but mostly we just want to be left alone.

Americans are intelligent, and we have some of the best schools in the world, and a huge number of people from other countries coming to America to get an education. The creme rises to the top, so we dont have Jerry Springer guests in the Oval Office, even if we have them on our TVs. We just want to do our jobs, In fact, my opinion is that the desire to just not have anyone fucking with them is a big goal in many americans lives. And the best way to be left alone is to be the biggest kid on the block, and thats we have become, and thats what we are, at least for now.

Now, eventually someone is going to give us a wake up call, this happened in September, unfortunately we completely misinterpreted it, so I think that we are going to have to wait for another go around, unfortunately. We need to reevaluate where we stand with the rest of the world, and we need to do it fast.

The homefront also needs some work. We need to figure out what exactly our principles are, and we need to stick to them. When a president lies under oath, and then waltzes out of office only because the Republicans trying to convict him were blinded by their own single-minded hate for the guy, and the whole thing makes highly watchable TV, you know you need to evaluate what you stand for, and you need to figure out if thats what you really want to stand for.

I dont fuckin know whats wrong with america right now, but I know something is. Its the million fuckin dollar question lol. Im not sure, but it feels kind of like inertia. Like we are just going on with the whole America thing because weve been doing it for a century or two. We have everything we need, and almost everything we want (you dont really ever have everything you want- thats a driving principle of economics), but something is missing. Ill get back to you when I figure it out    

But I digress... looks like I let my mouth hang open a bit too long lol<span id='postcolor'>

If ALL Americans had similar thoughts like you, esp. politicians, then the world would be such a better place

[FallenPaladin 0]

Every country has it`s ups and downs!

Tex seems to be one of the US-ups

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 04 2002,09:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ June 04 2002,08:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

I agree that intelligence is a relative thing. With wobble standards, Bush is a regular genious!

Am I being mean now? <span id='postcolor'>

Naw, the truth always hurts

[Guest]

Ok, here are my two cents on America:

First America is a huge country. You have really all sorts of people, so anything one says will be an unfair generalisation. But I'll try anyway hoping not to offend anybody too much

What makes America great and what makes America weak are the same principles: The total faith in the individual and the worthship of enterprise.

The origins of this, I believe, are that many of the first settlers in America were Calvinists by religion that had a hard time in a religiously totalitarian Europe. The basic idea behind Calvinism and its offsprings (Puritanism...etc) is that you get directly rewarded on earth for your actions (by God). That is if you are rich and successful then you are a good person and God is rewarding you. The Calvinists were also very prude people and didn't believe in sex, alcohol and other wordly pleasures.

That theory would explain why a self-made rich businessman is the American dream and why you can buy a gun when you are 18 but can't buy alcohol until you are 21.

Now, the strengths of the American system lie in the freedom of the individual and of course in the economic prosperity.

The fault lies in the assumption that development is always good and that if you work hard things can only get better. The fault with that model is the fact that it is highly unstable and assumes that there are infinite resources in the world. Because of that model we have stock market crashes. We also have the wierd situation that a company must make a larger profit every year for its stocks not to fall. The truth is still that we really don't have the need for more and more cars every year. Since the whole system is built on this model, the politicians are forced to adapt the society to follow it. This goes for Europe tooin some degree but this is much more visible in America since the ties between the industry and goverment are so close.

The bad part about the individualism is the assumption that everybody is born with equal prerequisites. That is a nice idea but it is against human nature. Even in a democratic free market system like America you pretty soon get social layers. To then say that some person that grew up in a ghetto didn't become the president of america because he didn't try hard enough is absurd. Bush Jr. is the prime example of how a theoreticallgy sound system can be reduced into something that the system was originally built against. The american constitution was about going away from monarcy and oligocracy - and yet you have the son of the former 'king' taking the 'throne'.

I believe that there are two factors that makes changes in the right direction very hard:

1 - Your constitution. The fact that it cannot be changed is suicidal policy. Every country in the world needs to revise its foundation now and then. This is not the 1700's any more.

2 - The tie between the policy makers and different lobby groups. I suppose an overhaul of the election apparatus could fix that, at least partially. Democracy = majority rule. You can't have small interest groups dictating the politics of your country. In most European countries, direct lobbying is forbidden and considered as bribing.

America is built on many very good ideas. Some work, and some do not. Keep the ones that work and revise those that don't. In short: trash the constitution and write something modern and updatable.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I am getting some Sushi now and watch the matches. "Either you are with us or you are with them"! Soccer seems to have something in common with terrorism (or the other way around).

BTW: did ever see a speech by Bush without the word "terorism"?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ June 04 2002,13:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW: did ever see a speech by Bush without the word "terorism"?<span id='postcolor'>

Political logic is always very strange:

10/9 Bush popular support: 45%

11/9 3000 Americans die

12/9 Bush popular support: 90%

----

Because he did such a good job???

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Ya well.... America is coming to a halt...

[FUBAR 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ June 04 2002,12:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We arent like that, but we are similar to it. The reason america is what it is is because most americans work hard at what they do, and whatever they do (unless its being a lawyer) contributes to something that makes America great, be it its economy, its infrastructure, or its security. We are willing to do what it takes when the time comes, but mostly we just want to be left alone.

Americans are intelligent, and we have some of the best schools in the world, and a huge number of people from other countries coming to America to get an education. The creme rises to the top, so we dont have Jerry Springer guests in the Oval Office, even if we have them on our TVs. We just want to do our jobs, In fact, my opinion is that the desire to just not have anyone fucking with them is a big goal in many americans lives. And the best way to be left alone is to be the biggest kid on the block, and thats we have become, and thats what we are, at least for now.<span id='postcolor'>

Don’t let this post fall into an American People slagging post!

Let’s face it, America have a lot to be proud of, and should be proud of it! But at times their government does things that lets just say "is well below par old chap"

America does work hard, as do other countries, but America has the benefit of not having to rebuild their industry might, during the 40's 50s (i.e. they have not had the unfortunate experience of having their countries industry bombed). America is a very large nation, which means they have very large resources at hand so they have a lot of growth capital.

That is why the American government is so concerned about Europe adopting the 1 market 1 currency policy, you combine all the resources and capital from Europe and Europe does becomes a state (even Russia has shown an interest in joining Europe), then that state will be just as large as America, and then Europe do not become dependant on America for military might, or financial aid (there is already talk of Europe having a European only NATO, to police Europe and surrounding area's)

UK, Germany and France are in negotiations for building a number of super carriers, and building a European Navy that will dwarf the US fleet (mind you, this will take many years to do, look how long the euro fighter has taken to be built), then America may even be asked to leave the European countries they are guests in, as they will no longer be required for security duties.

This could fall one way or the other for the USA, USA get’s left out in the cold, or over the time of these supposedly planned integrations, the USA gets included in it, but they could loose the control they have at the moment within NATO and the market place.

I could be talking clap trap, but it is info I have read on the internet from news/financial/current affairs websites.

Only one problem with America is that they have a few assholes that sprout the usual comment "if it wasn't for the US you would all be speaking German now" when America is called into disrepute! Other than that and some of their government’s policies, America is a great place, with great people.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Oh yeah. The US was down to earth, totally devasted, most major cities were blown to dust. But Bush, the american version of Churchill, gave the nation new pride, gave them the strength to rebuild the industries and kick down an enemy which was superior in power!

No risk of bashing, just like to make fun of that Texan oil-farmer. Our cancelor is not better though

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 04 2002,13:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The fault lies in the assumption that development is always good and that if you work hard things can only get better. The fault with that model is the fact that it is highly unstable and assumes that there are infinite resources in the world. Because of that model we have stock market crashes. We also have the wierd situation that a company must make a larger profit every year for its stocks not to fall. The truth is still that we really don't have the need for more and more cars every year. Since the whole system is built on this model, the politicians are forced to adapt the society to follow it.

The bad part about the individualism is the assumption that everybody is born with equal prerequisites. That is a nice idea but it is against human nature. Even in a democratic free market system like America you pretty soon get social layers. To then say that some person that grew up in a ghetto didn't become the president of america because he didn't try hard enough is absurd. Bush Jr. is the prime example of how a theoreticallgy sound system can be reduced into something that the system was originally built against. The american constitution was about going away from monarcy and oligocracy - and yet you have the son of the former 'king' taking the 'throne'.

I believe that there are two factors that makes changes in the right direction very hard:

1 - Your constitution. The fact that it cannot be changed is suicidal policy. Every country in the world needs to revise its foundation now and then. This is not the 1700's any more.

2 - The tie between the policy makers and different lobby groups. I suppose an overhaul of the election apparatus could fix that, at least partially. Democracy = majority rule. You can't have small interest groups dictating the politics of your country. In most European countries, direct lobbying is forbidden and considered as bribing.

America is built on many very good ideas. Some work, and some do not. Keep the ones that work and revise those that don't. In short: trash the constitution and write something modern and updatable.<span id='postcolor'>

A definite thing that needs to be done is to put the power of elections back into the hands of voters- the electoral system needs to be trashed, and the popular vote needs to be used as the only way to determine a presidential election. Having candidate who got more votes lose the election (just because the votes were in a part of the country that, on the electoral map, 'didnt matter' is a tremendous blow to the idea that America is a truly democratic country.

Another thing that needs to be changed is the method in which candidates receive monetary support from either companies or individuals. The McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Bill finally went through Congress and was signed by the President like the paper had been handled by an Ebola patient. When it was signed, the soft money came rolling in on both sides of the aisle (I mean the aisle in Congress, which divides the two parties). I read somewhere that the Republican Party broke records in money received at its fund-raising galas immediately after the signing of the CFR bill.

The major obstacle that needs to be cleared here is some way to defeat in the court system the businesses that say giving large amounts of money to a party or candidate to influence policy is protected under the freedom of speech ammendment (the 1st ammendment). Of course this is dangerous, as it runs the risk of creating a Orwell-ian type government, where everyone is 'equal', but some are more 'equal' than others.

The idea of ditching the Constitution is out of the question. It was the one thing the original colonies could agree on. Its what the president swears to protect and defend, and its really one of the more remarkable documents created by a government in history. It is not a suicide pact, and most people recognise this. What most people dont realise is that suicide isnt the only way to get yourself killed. Thats why we have ammendments, and trust me, there are alot of them. We cant just throw out the Constitution every time it needs a change; when slavery was abolished (13th ammendment), we didnt throw out the Constitution just because it allowed slavery, they changed it, and the founding fathers made it ammendable because they foresaw this sort of shit happening. If Ben Franklin was around today, he would break it down for you . The ammendment process is indeed very lengthy and thorough, but many see that as a very good thing, along the lines of the old saying, "Only fools rush in..."

Now, of course the Constitution needs some changing, but remember that change is a double edged sword. Every change, every ammendment sets a precedent. A change for the good here may open the door for a change for the worse later. And remember, America is a democracy, and if the people want to have their guns, well, the government has to let them have it (anyone remember the old Bugs Bunny cartoons? lol, "You heard me, lemme have it!"). We just need to have new ammendments and safeguards put in place to protect the people and the rights of the people at the same time (you would think they go hand in hand, but they dont lol). But the main thing is that the Constitution stays, because it represents a foundation that can be stripped down and rebuilt, because its a damn good foundation.

On a side note, many of the original ideas behind the creation of an American state were established by England philosopher John Locke, who was one of the first to write that governments only founction was to guarantee "Life, Liberty, and Property" to its citizens. This was a marked contrast to the prevailing idea that people were there to serve the government, for the sole purpose of maintaining the government.

[Guest]

Hmm. I just read my post. I don't know why I always end up sounding like a Marxist-Leninist in this forum. I am in reallity a liberal. I believe in market economy and so on...

Hmm.. I guess that I just like picking fights too much

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Grrr, why do all of make me read so much today? I gotta watch matches at the same time. Now if concentrate on reading for too long I might miss a goal!

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ June 04 2002,14:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Grrr, why do all of make me read so much today? I gotta watch matches at the same time. Now if concentrate on reading for too long I might miss a goal!  <span id='postcolor'>

Shouldn't you be working though

Or are you lucky enough to be in one of those firms that allow its employees to watch the WC

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ June 04 2002,14:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On a side note, many of the original ideas behind the creation of an American state were established by England philosopher John Locke, who was one of the first to write that governments only founction was to guarantee "Life, Liberty, and Property" to its citizens. This was a marked contrast to the prevailing idea that people were there to serve the government, for the sole purpose of maintaining the government.<span id='postcolor'>

Your constitution is a basic copy of the french one that emerged after the french revoluiton. It has been changed many times to the better.

In 1772 Sweden adopted a very similar one. It was changed and improved in 1766 and in 1809 and the current one is from 1974. Every step was an improvement, while your constitution is on the level that our was in 1772.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ June 04 2002,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">9--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ June 04 2002,149)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Grrr, why do all of make me read so much today? I gotta watch matches at the same time. Now if concentrate on reading for too long I might miss a goal!  <span id='postcolor'>

Shouldn't you be working though

Or are you lucky enough to be in one of those firms that allow its employees to watch the WC <span id='postcolor'>

Better, working on my final paper. So I can always waste time without admiting it to myself!

[Tex -USMC- 0]

0--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FUBAR @ June 04 2002,140)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ June 04 2002,12:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We arent like that, but we are similar to it. The reason america is what it is is because most americans work hard at what they do, and whatever they do (unless its being a lawyer) contributes to something that makes America great, be it its economy, its infrastructure, or its security. We are willing to do what it takes when the time comes, but mostly we just want to be left alone.

Americans are intelligent, and we have some of the best schools in the world, and a huge number of people from other countries coming to America to get an education. The creme rises to the top, so we dont have Jerry Springer guests in the Oval Office, even if we have them on our TVs. We just want to do our jobs, In fact, my opinion is that the desire to just not have anyone fucking with them is a big goal in many americans lives. And the best way to be left alone is to be the biggest kid on the block, and thats we have become, and thats what we are, at least for now.<span id='postcolor'>

Don’t let this post fall into an American People slagging post!

Let’s face it, America have a lot to be proud of, and should be proud of it! But at times their government does things that lets just say "is well below par old chap"

America does work hard, as do other countries, but America has the benefit of not having to rebuild their industry might, during the 40's 50s (i.e. they have not had the unfortunate experience of having their countries industry bombed). America is a very large nation, which means they have very large resources at hand so they have a lot of growth capital.

That is why the American government is so concerned about Europe adopting the 1 market 1 currency policy, you combine all the resources and capital from Europe and Europe does becomes a state (even Russia has shown an interest in joining Europe), then that state will be just as large as America, and then Europe do not become dependant on America for military might, or financial aid (there is already talk of Europe having a European only NATO, to police Europe and surrounding area's)

UK, Germany and France are in negotiations for building a number of super carriers, and building a European Navy that will dwarf the US fleet (mind you, this will take many years to do, look how long the euro fighter has taken to be built), then America may even be asked to leave the European countries they are guests in, as they will no longer be required for security duties.

This could fall one way or the other for the USA, USA get’s left out in the cold, or over the time of these supposedly planned integrations, the USA gets included in it, but they could loose the control they have at the moment within NATO and the market place.

I could be talking clap trap, but it is info I have read on the internet from news/financial/current affairs websites.

Only one problem with America is that they have a few assholes that sprout the usual comment "if it wasn't for the US you would all be speaking German now" when America is called into disrepute! Other than that and some of their government’s policies, America is a great place, with great people.<span id='postcolor'>

Of course it isnt an American slagging post. You should be able to tell that the reason I am addressing Americas problems is because I deeply want America to live up to its full potential. Just because you criticize something does not mean you do not love it. If your parents exercised tough love you would understand.

America isnt overly concerned with Europe becoming a unified state, although the economic hardball that the Bush administration is beginning to play may suggest that they are more used to the idea of doing business in a bi-polar world (the US and the USSR being the poles). This idea is supported by the people brought into the Bush cabinet, which is mainly an encore of Bush Sr's staff. It would be advantageous from an economic aspect for Europe to unite, but as Denoir stated sideways in his post a while back, money isnt everything. Europeans have alot of nationalistic pride and independence, especially considering the somewhat fluid idea of European states over the past few centuries. Do you really want to sacrifice being an Brit for being a European, just because it would allow your newly formed European Union to compete adequately with an American Steel Industry that is supported lavishly by the US government because of domestic political reasons? Think real hard. The European militarys may want to unite, but from what I have seen, the militarys dont call the shots over on your side of the pond. Do you want them to? And think how many political parties you guys have now, per country. Think how many political parties a unified European state would have? How many stars are in the sky? And dont take Americans old WW2 excuse too seriously, because, after all, we know that realistically, the Germans probably would have let you keep your own languages        (I kid, I kid! )

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 04 2002,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ June 04 2002,146)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On a side note, many of the original ideas behind the creation of an American state were established by England philosopher John Locke, who was one of the first to write that governments only founction was to guarantee "Life, Liberty, and Property" to its citizens. This was a marked contrast to the prevailing idea that people were there to serve the government, for the sole purpose of maintaining the government.<span id='postcolor'>

Your constitution is a basic copy of the french one that emerged after the french revoluiton. It has been changed many times to the better.

In 1772 Sweden adopted a very similar one. It was changed and improved in 1766 and in 1809 and the current one is from 1974. Every step was an improvement, while your constitution is on the level that our was in 1772.<span id='postcolor'>

you mean the French constitution is a copy of the American one. The French desired to emulate Americas intent, going so far as adopting a similar slogan to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

[Mora2 0]

Denoir:

"As for real life points against Bush's incopetence"

" Look at his economical policy ("if we lower the taxes the government will get more money")."

Mmmm....i don´t really understand....do you really think increasing taxes increases incoming profits for a state?

One basic thing that i´m studying in economics is that not always increasing taxes makes you earn more money...

Of course i´m am in my first year of career and i´m not an expert....but i think this is a basic point...

For example:

If i increase taxes for ppl who earn more than a determined quantity each year i am not helping those ppl trying to increase their annual incoming sallary by producing more...ann when i say his production i am saying that production,capital,technical investigation,etc...is what´s make´s a country´s profit.

You can make some points i f you want on this, i would be very happy to know ppl´s views and knowledges on this as it interest´s me.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mora2 @ June 04 2002,14:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir:

"As for real life points against Bush's incopetence"

" Look at his economical policy ("if we lower the taxes the government will get more money")."

Mmmm....i don´t really understand....do you really think increasing taxes increases incoming profits for a state?

One basic thing that i´m studying in economics is that not always increasing taxes makes you earn more money...

Of course i´m am in my first year of career and i´m not an expert....but i think this is a basic point...

For example:

If i increase taxes for ppl who earn more than a determined quantity each year i am not helping those ppl trying to increase their annual incoming sallary by producing more...ann when i say his production i am saying that production,capital,technical investigation,etc...is what´s make´s a country´s profit.

You can make some points i f you want on this, i would be very happy to know ppl´s views and knowledges on this as it interest´s me.

   <span id='postcolor'>

It depends on the situation, and the situation has a nasty habit of changing. There is no one set formula; if there was, everything would be great, taxation would be perfect, governments would have exactly the right amount of money, there would be peace in the Middle East, etc.

What Bush proposed is to have a big tax cut (I mean a big one, more of a tax slash than a cut) based on projected surplus cash that was coming from an optimistic report of the US governments earnings in the next 10-15 years. Naturally, when the time came to implement this cut, surprise! The money wasnt there, because Congress got to it and promptly spent it. So Bush settled for a tax refund, which the maximum one could get was $600- only Americas richest 15% received $600- Rush Limbaugh got his, lol. So really, it was chump change, with the people receiving a sizable amount being the ones who really had no real use for an extra 600 bucks, and the people who couldve used it ended up getting $100 dollars- if they were lucky. So basically it wasnt too bad, as a potentially disastrous maneuver was downgraded to an irrelevant one. But I foresee major problems in the near future, as the Baby Boomers start applying for their Social Securit checks, and the money from a surplus that couldve done all the good is a distant memory that people still wont be sure whether it existed or not.

[Pukko 0]

Whoooaaaaa!

In the middle of one of the gratest, and most beautiful, meanings in life -the World Cup; tides are coming when this kind of discussions about US politics and policies can go on without flamewar!!!!!!!  

Now is this a positive sign or what? That this long after 9/11 creative discussions about US present and future (which in different ways concerns us all) can be held!

This thread even started with a, recently completely taboo, topic about that the US government even might have had interests in limited terror attacks on US soil (which, probably if that is true, became wastly worse than planned).

I'm also quite convinced that there are a lot to do in the USA, but cant but think that its already to late... One cant wash away ideologies and 'the meaning of life' of maybe the 100 of 300 million Americans that would die to have USA the way it is - in just a few years. I'm not saying that USA will 'blow up', rather that it might undergo a radical change in the closest decades. Maybe to be compared historically to the collapse of the Sovjet Union...

Now, this is a worst case scenario; and I really hope that if it comes true, that the USA will not bring the rest of the world with them in its 'fall'. Since I recon this is quite possible, Europe will, for good or bad, need to quickly grow strong enough to survive a 'US collapse' and even to say NO in the case that USA is about to start a global Israel-Palestine conflict. Unfortionally it has already started through the 'war on terrorism' and all the things that led to it...

But this is a POSITIVE thread, and thats the only way to make it for the better. IF this kind of discussions would take place officially in a much larger extent than today (or at least very recently), there might still be hope.........  

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ June 04 2002,14:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you mean the French constitution is a copy of the American one. The French desired to emulate Americas intent, going so far as adopting a similar slogan to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness<span id='postcolor'>

Hehehe.. not really. The American ideas are a pure rip-off of the French ones. All the ideas for the revolution were defined on paper in 1762 in Rousseau's Social contract. All the revolutionary theory was drawn from the French.

The French revolution was also much more far going then the American. The American was in the first hand about getting rid of the Brits, while the French was about changing the society.

The American revolution turned out quite nicely, while the French one took a very nasty turn pretty fast.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Okay... that made zero sense. The US is the wealthiest nation in the world, with the strongest military, not to mention we have more nuclear weapons than anyone else. There are no signs of violent unrest within our borders, and no enemies capable of doing much more than really pissing us off.

Why do you think that there is a possibility of a US collapse?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ June 04 2002,16:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ June 04 2002,14:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you mean the French constitution is a copy of the American one. The French desired to emulate Americas intent, going so far as adopting a similar slogan to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness<span id='postcolor'>

Hehehe.. not really. The American ideas are a pure rip-off of the French ones. All the ideas for the revolution were defined on paper in 1762 in Rousseau's Social contract. All the revolutionary theory was drawn from the French.

The French revolution was also much more far going then the American. The American was in the first hand about getting rid of the Brits, while the French was about changing the society.

The American revolution turned out quite nicely, while the French one took a very nasty turn pretty fast.<span id='postcolor'>

I think that last part should be the benchmark, dont you?

And how could America emulate a revolutin that hadnt even happened yet?