Libyan Revolution Helmet Cam

[*LK1* 10]

Hopefully the days of the greedy dictator and his cronies are over. You have no idea what it's like to live under scum like Gaddafi, Assad and Mugabe and others.

there are different kind of dictators. not all of them are like stalin or hitler :)

for example chavez doesnt seem to be a tyran like saddam was...

but i can agree, mostly, on what you are saying.

[maturin 12]

Chavez is democratically elected. It's tyranny of the majority at times, but not dictatorship. Some of the Arab monarchs are comparatively nice and cuddly, though.

[PELHAM 10]

there are different kind of dictators. not all of them are like stalin or hitler :)

for example chavez doesnt seem to be a tyran like saddam was...

but i can agree, mostly, on what you are saying.

I judge a man by the company he keeps, Chavez loves Gaddafi, Mugabe, Ahmedinejad, Castro and practically any other asshole going. He also changed the constitution to keep himself in power longer. No one should do things like that. It's unethical, undemocratic and reeks of corruption.

The current South African government seem to like the above dictators too and do everything they can to support them. Strange behaviour for people that struggled for many years for freedom to deny it to others simply because they have historical ties with dictators. I don't know how they explain it to themselves.

[maturin 12]

I judge a man by the company he keeps, Chavez loves Gaddafi, Mugabe, Ahmedinejad, Castro and practically any other asshole going.

Yep, nothing displays the hollowness of ideology in geopolitics like Chavez's shameless kowtowing anyone who makes the U.S. look bad, even if they should be abhorrent to a true socialist.

Still, nothing worse than all those Republican members of Congress trying to support anti-Iranian terrorists. And Socialist-Islamists, no less! An actual real version of the imaginary bogeymen Glenn Beck loved to rant about.

[spooky lynx 73]

*

oh dont you worry mate.

syria it will be the next. anyone is accepting bets?

when the economic stability is going badly or/and the oil price is growing the western world remembers that there is a fool tyrant sitting on tons of oil somewhere right there, where is full of sand and there are a lot of camels. :(

Suddenly all 'horrible dictators who kill houndreds of innocent civiliand (although there's still no solid proofs of houndreds of dead and innocence of killed)' do have good relations with my country and were important trade partners for us. Now I bet all major deals and contracts will be given mostly to some other companies, but not russian or chinese.

[*LK1* 10]

I judge a man by the company he keeps, Chavez loves Gaddafi, Mugabe, Ahmedinejad, Castro and practically any other asshole going.

i dont judge a man by the company. bah...especially if were are talking about politicians. i wouldnt consider a crime being allied of gaddafi. it's just a political exigency.

He also changed the constitution to keep himself in power longer. No one should do things like that. It's unethical, undemocratic and reeks of corruption.

unethical,undemocratic? yes. but we should talk after a couple of years if this

dictatorship was bad. undemocratic doesn't necessaril means wrong.

the dictatorship, which means the ability to take decisions without seeing slowing them by the burocracy, it was and it is a key factor of the chinese growth for example. i know that sounds wrong due the culture you are imprinted...but as i said dictatorship doesn't necessarily means something wrong.

reeks of corruption? well, could be but depends on the dictator not on the dictatorship. even the us democracy, which is considerated(doesnt mean it is for real) the most shining, is corrupted by companies ecc...

by the way i saw many western pro-right side newspapers criticize chavez

before he started to do something.

The current South African government seem to like the above dictators too and do everything they can to support them. Strange behaviour for people that struggled for many years for freedom to deny it to others simply because they have historical ties with dictators. I don't know how they explain it to themselves.

realpolitik :bounce3:

i guess...

[maturin 12]

(although there's still no solid proofs of houndreds of dead and innocence of killed)'

I'd imagine the corpses are proof enough. Give it up.

do have good relations with my country and were important trade partners for us. Now I bet all major deals and contracts will be given mostly to some other companies, but not russian or chinese.

You're not a Russian company. And I'm not an American company. Like most ordinary citizens, I have disapproved of dictatorial scumbags all along, and don't particularly care that the cynical politicians and profiteers have reversed their behavior, because it is on the right direction. I expect realpolitik, and know that realpolitik can be overridden or influenced in certain circumstances. I didn't profit from Ghaddafi's regime, and neither did most of the people applauding its fall or organizing the international response. So unless your stock portfolio just took a huge hit, stop bellyaching over a mass murderer failing to slaughter his own citizens.

[spooky lynx 73]

I'd imagine the corpses are proof enough. Give it up.

But how many of them were shown? Not houndreds but lot smaller quantity.

You're not a Russian company. And I'm not an American company. Like most ordinary citizens, I have disapproved of dictatorial scumbags all along, and don't particularly care that the cynical politicians and profiteers have reversed their behavior, because it is on the right direction. I expect realpolitik, and know that realpolitik can be overridden or influenced in certain circumstances. I didn't profit from Ghaddafi's regime, and neither did most of the people applauding its fall or organizing the international response. So unless your stock portfolio just took a huge hit, stop bellyaching over a mass murderer failing to slaughter his own citizens.

I don't agree with you, I can say I'm russian company, and I can explain why. Those companies had (or would have) some contracts -> they would have some benefits and profits -> they pay more taxes -> I have a profit because they fill my country's budget. Now they will lose this incomes, so if we speak about RZhD railway company it will try to get this incomes by other ways. How? Simple - it will raise its prices for tickets. So personally me will have to spend more money during vacations. And so on. Budget must be filled, taxed must be paid, companies do everything to get their planned incomes. So it will be better when all this money will be paid by Libyans but not me.

[*LK1* 10]

I'd imagine the corpses are proof enough. Give it up.

I didn't profit from Ghaddafi's regime, and neither did most of the people applauding its fall or organizing the international response. So unless your stock portfolio just took a huge hit, stop bellyaching over a mass murderer failing to slaughter his own citizens.

perhaps you have forgot there is not proofs of mass murders made by gaddafy. that's what human right watch, amnesty international and some non western media said. maybe you can consider RT and other western media not serious and factious(which is not my idea...) but you should take in consideration what am. inter. and hrw said. being a dictator doesn't necessarily means being a devil able to kill thousand of people just for your own interest. i can give you a bunch of examples about that.

[st_dux 26]

There is proof that Gaddafi was ordering his military to kill dissenters. Whether or not this constitutes "mass murder" is a matter of definition.

[*LK1* 10]

There is proof that Gaddafi was ordering his military to kill dissenters. Whether or not this constitutes "mass murder" is a matter of definition.

i guess you are wrong. perhaps you are confusing the word "dissenters" with "rebels". and by the way dont think that these rebels are all saints.

[spooky lynx 73]

Armed rebellion is a crime in every country. Libya is not an exception. If you start armed fighting against authorities in any EU country, I bet you'll be shot by law enforcement guys within a day. No matter what goals you had.

[st_dux 26]

i guess you are wrong. perhaps you are confusing the word "dissenters" with "rebels". and by the way dont think that these rebels are all saints.

I'm not talking about armed rebels; I'm talking about civilian protesters. Gaddafi ordered the military to fire on them, which is one of the reasons why a large chunk of his military deserted and joined the rebel cause.

And I don't think the rebels are saints. I'm sure they're lynching most anyone they suspect of having been a Gaddafi loyalist right now. There is no good vs. evil here (or anywhere, for that matter). My only point was that painting Gaddafi as some sort of benevolent dictator isn't really accurate.

[*LK1* 10]

Armed rebellion is a crime in every country. Libya is not an exception. If you start armed fighting against authorities in any EU country, I bet you'll be shot by law enforcement guys within a day. No matter what goals you had.

true.

i wish all the best at the libyan people however, as the iraqi situation suggest, changing from a regime to a fragile and unstable democracy doesn't means greatly improves the situation of the nation.

---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------

I'm not talking about armed rebels; I'm talking about civilian protesters. Gaddafi ordered the military to fire on them, which is one of the reasons why a large chunk of his military deserted and joined the rebel cause.

for what i know, and i already said it, there's no proofs of these kind of orders. dont get me wrong dude, i've just a different opinion. for what i know AI and HRW and other no western media said the contrare of what you are saying.

And I don't think the rebels are saints. I'm sure they're lynching most anyone they suspect of having been a Gaddafi loyalist right now. There is no good vs. evil here (or anywhere, for that matter). My only point was that painting Gaddafi as some sort of benevolent dictator isn't really accurate.

we never said is a benevolent dictator. i'm saying simply that using the human rights as a pretest to fight a dictator by bombing is country when he's always has been what it is right now and when he always acted like he act right now it's just an hypocritical behavior.

especially if this dictator was an allied of the western world before that the Arab Spring blossomed.

(sorry for my english i hope the sense is clear)

Edited August 31, 2011 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Daniel 0]

there's no proofs of these kind of orders.

But would you concede it is the suspected reason why much of his forces deserted for the rebels? Then surely the benefit of the doubt is that he gave these orders and can therefore be judged unfit to run his own country. That should go for any nation without exception.

On the topic of "why now?". I guess NATO can claim to help a population change their regime if they the people are willing to initiate the rebellion and make sacrifices. The Arab world set the precedence for regime change earlier this year without heavy handed Western involvement.

[spooky lynx 73]

But would you concede it is the suspected reason why much of his forces deserted for the rebels? Then surely the benefit of the doubt is that he gave these orders and can therefore be judged unfit to run his own country. That should go for any nation without exception.

Firstly, not so much soldiers joined rebels as media told. Second, there's a proverb - "a donkey loaded with gold can capture any fortress".

[st_dux 26]

Firstly, not so much soldiers joined rebels as media told.

How do you know this? If not from the media, where are you getting your information?

[*LK1* 10]

But would you concede it is the suspected reason why much of his forces deserted for the rebels? Then surely the benefit of the doubt is that he gave these orders and can therefore be judged unfit to run his own country.

probably some of those get paid for ammutination.

[PELHAM 10]

Hey we heard from ol Colonel "Mad" Gadaffi today! It was a nice long speech too, 1/2 hour of ramblings. If anyone could be bothered to listen to all that nonsense and secondly if you could find any sense in it please post it here. :D

If this is what they did to their own personal staff, just imagine what we will find out later about the suffering of ordinary people.

GADDAFI NANNY: I WAS TORTURED: Muammar Gaddafi often insisted that he lived a modest lifestyle during his 42-year rule, but the Gaddafi family seaside compound in Tripoli reveals a hedonistic and sometimes brutal lifestyle. CNN visited the homes Sunday alongside rebel troops and entered large, sleek, modernly furnished rooms littered with evidence of hedonism. CNN’s Dan Rivers also discovered the nanny of Hannibal Gaddafi, one of the leader’s sons, who was horribly scarred and said she had been brutally tied up and scalded with boiling water by Hannibal’s wife, Aline, after refusing to beat their crying toddler. Another staff member also confessed to being regularly beaten by the Gaddafi family.

Love this one too:

Which one is daffy lol? Hint: both have duck lips, one was born with them, the other had really bad collagen injections:

Edited September 1, 2011 by PELHAM

[*LK1* 10]

..................

[purepassion 22]

Ghaddafi not amused! :D

[*LK1* 10]

what a face..:D

[joogrr 10]

I didn't know the BIS forum was used for political intrigues and conspiracy theories :p However, in regard of the war in Libya (although it's not really a "war" according to them because they don't have troops on the ground xD) it's clearly a serious war crime in progress and a complete humanitarian disaster. More importantly, there is no revolution!

It's all lies. As many of you already know both MI6 and CIA are "on the ground" directing air strikes against both civilian and military targets. Civilian casualties are up to 30.000 and rising. What was the purpose of the UN resolution again? *DOH* A lot of people seem to think that US and NATO is some kind of charitable organization on a mission to save the Libyan people from a tyrannical dictator. Anyone who know a little about Gaddafi know how absurd that really is, and it is proof of how powerful media really is. For example, quote "Libyans are entitled to free treatment, and their hospitals provide the best in the world of medical equipment. Education in Libya is free, capable young people have the opportunity to study abroad at government expense. When marrying, young couples receive 60,000 Libyan dinars (about 50,000 US dollars) of financial assistance. Non-interest state loans, and as practice shows, undated. Due to government subsidies the price of cars is much lower than in Europe, and they are affordable for every family. Gasoline and bread cost a penny, no taxes for those who are engaged in agriculture."

Nobody can argue that Libya is a sovereign nation with vast natural resources and wealth. In the eyes of the international globalist elite however, Gaddafi is a very dangerous man who can threaten the stability of world financial systems. To better understand this I suggest you read the article "Libya all about oil, or central banking?" by Ellen Brown http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD14Ak02.html

It is not difficult to provoke a mob of angry Muslims and persuade them to turn against your enemies. In fact it's a common tactic used by the CIA. In the 80:s they recruited and trained thousands of Mujahideen and used them to fight off the Russians in Afghanistan. They also recruited Osama Bin Laden and financed, with help from Saudi Arabia, the fighting force who later became the well known "al-Qaida". They where first called Mujahideens and "freedom fighters", but that later changed to Talibans and "terrorist" (and perhaps now they are called rebels?). This is all a historical record. CIA was responsible for creating this nifty network of fundamentalist ideologists under their command, that had no apparent organization, no HQ, no real leader = no weakness.

"Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians."

- former Brittish foreign secretary, Robert Finlayson Cook.

It's no surprise then that Gaddafi early on claimed that the rebels was organized by al-Qaida. That fact was later confirmed by rebel leader Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html

So here you have US and NATO arming and supporting al-Qaida in Libya at the same time al-Qaida are killing Americans in Afghanistan. In fact they even brag about it according to some sources. This should indeed get you very worried, and very pissed off. No?

So what really started this? All Gaddafi did was defending himself and his country from this illegal uprising, caused by "armed" troublemakers directly influenced by western intelligence agencies. Mainstream media around the world was filled with propaganda about how Gaddafi was shooting and bombing unarmed civilians. Russia however who have satellites covering Libyan ground and air space, openly question these alleged attacks and have not seen any evidence of such attacks taking place. Media also addressed the terrorist acts in Europe traced to Libya (some bomb in a disco) but forgot to mention the fact Gaddafi actually handed over the culprits and also paid generous compensation to the families of the victims. Thats about all the "real" dirt they could find on Gaddafi's 42 year rule. Terrifying fella no doubt xD

So why is it taking so long? The reason is very simple. There is NO REVOLUTION! The majority of the Libyan people support Gaddafi. Understand this, the Libyans had their revolution over 40 years ago when Gaddafi liberated Libya from monarchy and replaced it with a democratic system called the Jamahiriya (that puts ours to shame):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVDdBYsAzA8

That's why Gaddafi during the beginning on this conflict could drive around on the streets of Tripoli in an open car, completely unprotected, waving to his people that ran in masses behind the car cheering.

If you still think Gaddafi is a tyrannical dictator suppressing his people then just look at this supporters! In July over a million Libyans gathered on the streets to protest against NATO and to support Gaddafi. The people created a 4.5km long flag to honor him. People on the street said things like; Go to hell Obama, we are not afraid of you! We are with Muammar Gaddafi! All the Libyan people are with Muammar Gaddafi! There is no revolution!

< Message to Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST0VV46-iBA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvXNo81fyMo

Naturally this event was not covered in the main stream news. You may ask yourself why that is. Looks like NATO bombs will have to do the talking some more. Libyans are really stubborn people :/

[spooky lynx 73]

How do you know this? If not from the media, where are you getting your information?

You know, many of those guys who worked in Libya (building railroads for example) have blogs;)

[*LK1* 10]

I didn't know the BIS forum was used for political intrigues and conspiracy theories

according to some people(not talking to you), everything which is not the official true promoted by pro-governative media is a conspiracy theories....bah. except a couple of war i wonder how many wars were fought for the reason that the government gave to the public opinion.