Animation Improvements in ArmA 3

[kernriver 4]

Reloading LMGs can take up to 20 seconds.

I take it maybe 1 or 2 % here has reloaded one under fire, tired and propably scared.

Opening a backpack / taking it out of a tight vest pouch is not something you do in a second, nonetheless open the chamber, take out the mag, take out the new mag out of your backpack / vest, put the belt in, put the mag in, close your chamber and finally cock the handle.

That's what I'm talking about. Ok, animation can be simple, maybe a little bit more advanced than it is now.

But, duration of the animation must reflect advantages/disadvantages of carrying certain weapon, in this case a SAW.

[zukov 490]

indeed , i answered at your post, the new animations (and improved multiplayer) are two things, that I want to see for buy the new hardware or not

[Bouben 3]

I believe that the length of certain reloading animations was modded to be longer even in the old OFP days. It worked well but it looked awkward.

CSLA mod was the case.

[Smurf 12]

Regarding animations, I want it all this time. Enough with generic reload animations, mind controlled weapons and vehicles. It would be silly for a 2012 game to have those.

[purepassion 22]

keep in mind that BIS also would love to do stuff like this but with a team of roundabout 25 people, you sadly have to make a lot compromises. And in this case, the effort vs gameplay benefits comparison doesnt look that good at all...

[Maio 293]

keep in mind that BIS also would love to do stuff like this but with a team of roundabout 25 people, you sadly have to make a lot compromises. And in this case, the effort vs gameplay benefits comparison doesnt look that good at all...

Where did you get that 25 from :) ? BIS is not the little innocent indie studio it used to be ... after all , it bought 3 other studios . Plus there is always the out sourcing solution and they have plenty of talent to choose from .

[purepassion 22]

"Arma 3 only team" ;)

[Maio 293]

"Arma 3 only team" ;)

I know , but look at the tech transfer that's going on between TOH and Arma 3 .

[nkenny 1057]

I'm not sure what you mean by proper, but it should be entirely possible to make new, longer (and even stationary) reloading animations for MG weapons with the current ArmA 2 system. IMO, just two different anims for rifles & MGs is enough. For a game of ArmA's scope, individual anims for each different weapon would be an impossible amount of anims to create & configure (and would probably tax your system's memory).

Getting different animations for Rifles, Handguns, AT weapons, and heavy shoulder fired weapons like MGs or Anti-Material Rifles would be a great thing.

But frankly we're in 2012 by the time Arma3 is released. The technological barrier was breached in 1998 when skeletal animations replaced vertex animations for most engines. Good quality animation is one of the cheapest (in performance terms) ways to increase both graphical fidelity and the 'feel' of the game.

Motion Capture is not a silver bullet that solves all problems. We hear many things about how Bohemia supposedly has this advanced motion capture studio and technology. Its a shame they don't seem to levrage it very much. Apart from a few cutscenes (which is like 1% of the game)

There is no reasonable reason why Arma3 couldn't AT LEAST have different handling animations for the major weapon systems they choose to introduce for Arma3.

-k

[ghostnineone 10]

Where did you get that 25 from :) ? BIS is not the little innocent indie studio it used to be ... after all , it bought 3 other studios . Plus there is always the out sourcing solution and they have plenty of talent to choose from .

you mean like when danger close outsourced MoH multiplayer to dice, or when activision outsourced CoD to treyarch every other year?

they may have other studios but that doesnt mean they know how to make a milsim...

[kernriver 4]

Just to explain myself a little better (my english is not that great).

I don't want weapon handling animations for the sake of having them in the game (aka eye-candy),

I want them to reflect real world consequencies of having a certain weapon.

If you want to reload SAW (I use it as an example because it's my favorite), it takes, as Archosaurusrev said, up to 20 seconds.

In that time you are vulnerable, so you have to rely on your squad/team mates to protect you.

So in the end, good animations can, IMHO, encourage/endorse tactical gameplay.

I believe that the length of certain reloading animations was modded to be longer even in the old OFP days. It worked well but it looked awkward.

CSLA mod was the case.

Well you can mod it, but, with all due respect to mod teams, I think it's better to have them in the game from the beginning.

EDIT:

Sorry for hijacking your thread, Big Dawg. :o

Edited July 19, 2011 by Kernriver

[Maio 293]

you mean like when danger close outsourced MoH multiplayer to dice, or when activision outsourced CoD to treyarch every other year?

they may have other studios but that doesnt mean they know how to make a milsim...

No , I mean to the community . Contract a modder to do some minor things while the studio works on more " eye candy" aspects of the game , like fully working reload animations :) .

[dmarkwick 261]

you mean like when danger close outsourced MoH multiplayer to dice, or when activision outsourced CoD to treyarch every other year?

they may have other studios but that doesnt mean they know how to make a milsim...

I hear those studios use keyboards to program with. That must make keyboards rubbish? :)

[purepassion 22]

Another important aspect is that reload times according to the real ones teach the player the respect for the weapon. In a combat situation weapons like a Javelin mean an highly tactical advance and with longer reload animations you have to consider where and especially when you reload. This adds an completely new and interesting tactical aspect to the game.

Sure, some people will complain it takes "ages" to reload an M249, but those are beasts and well reloading an heavy MG simply takes some time.

[Tom1 10]

+1, players complaining it takes ages should play CoD... oh wait, even CoD takes longer to reload machine guns.

[neokika 62]

Hi all,

I really have high hopes for the animation system and here goes some suggestions:

• Blending from Rag-doll poses - Imagine getting shot on a leg while running down a hill or some stairs, the non-lethal hit would make the unit fall down in rag-doll mode, then a animation from that pose would come in and make the character ready again.
  
• Active Rag-doll - Using my example above, when a unit is hit in a way that it would fall down or whatever but still conscious the unit should go into rag-doll mode although keeping a alive feel to it, like blending a agony animation on top of the rag-doll one,
  is an example of what I mean.
  
• Multiple action animations - For actions such as pick up a weapon or anything else from open backpack, see watch, compass, gps should have proper animations and should be located in the 3D model.
  

_neo_

[kernriver 4]

Another important aspect is that reload times according to the real ones teach the player the respect for the weapon. In a combat situation weapons like a Javelin mean an highly tactical advance and with longer reload animations you have to consider where and especially when you reload. This adds an completely new and interesting tactical aspect to the game.

Sure, some people will complain it takes "ages" to reload an M249, but those are beasts and well reloading an heavy MG simply takes some time.

Exactly this. You explained it better than I ever could. :)

[Maio 293]

Hi all,

I really have high hopes for the animation system and here goes some suggestions:

• Blending from Rag-doll poses - Imagine getting shot on a leg while running down a hill or some stairs, the non-lethal hit would make the unit fall down in rag-doll mode, then a animation from that pose would come in and make the character ready again.
  
• Active Rag-doll - Using my example above, when a unit is hit in a way that it would fall down or whatever but still conscious the unit should go into rag-doll mode although keeping a alive feel to it, like blending a agony animation on top of the rag-doll one,
  is an example of what I mean.
  
• Multiple action animations - For actions such as pick up a weapon or anything else from open backpack, see watch, compass, gps should have proper animations and should be located in the 3D model.
  

_neo_

What neo said . This would increase the immersion considerably . The video is very impressive btw .

Edited July 19, 2011 by Maio

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Hi all,

I really have high hopes for the animation system and here goes some suggestions:

• Blending from Rag-doll poses - Imagine getting shot on a leg while running down a hill or some stairs, the non-lethal hit would make the unit fall down in rag-doll mode, then a animation from that pose would come in and make the character ready again.
  
• Active Rag-doll - Using my example above, when a unit is hit in a way that it would fall down or whatever but still conscious the unit should go into rag-doll mode although keeping a alive feel to it, like blending a agony animation on top of the rag-doll one,
  is an example of what I mean.
  
• Multiple action animations - For actions such as pick up a weapon or anything else from open backpack, see watch, compass, gps should have proper animations and should be located in the 3D model.
  

_neo_

While these seem like extremely ambitious suggestions, thanks for bringing the thread back on-topic.

[gossamersolid 155]

Yeah I'd love to see real reload animations for each weapon instead of these "Goldeneye Reloads". Remember how goldeneye 007 had the exact same reload anim, time for every weapon... that's what it feels like in arma.

[purepassion 22]

Active Ragdoll Simulation

I actually think that active Ragdolls, meaning blending animations according to specific actions to ragdoll, should be number one priority regarding improved animations and ragdoll.

To evaluate this matter, you firstly have to face the question:

Why was the ragdoll system introduced?

To make it short:

• It adds an massive part to the realism
  
• Enhancing the immersion
  
• Next to that it's also simply awesome eye-candy
  

So to sum it up, the goal of ragdoll was to deliever a higher rate of realism and present a more reasonable response to the players actions.

But an non-active ragdoll does not meet these requirements.

To understand this point, you also have to understand the subjetc of interest:

The human Body itself

It is equipped with various reflexes made to protect vital parts of the body. Like raising your hands towards your head once you fall or the embryos position. Nevertheless, you also have to differentiate between lethal and non-lethal hits. Once a human is shot lethaly eg in his brain, these reflexes are not active anymore and he simply falls towards ground only affected by gravity.

But for an sucessful Ragdoll, this "affected by nothing but gravity" is not enough. What you dont want is body limbs twisting around in very unnatural ways. Therefore there is a need for an very basic skeleton and tendon system to prevent this problem. Another serious matter is how the body is affected by shots. What you want to prevent is bodies being pushed meters when they are hit. To solve these problems, you also have to take correct weight in count.

Summary

• Active Ragdoll with blended animations
  
• Differentiate between lethal and non-lethal strikes in order to enable/disable the behaviour (meaning reflexes)
  
• Basic skeleton and tendon system to prevent any unnatural movement of body limbs
  

Why should you focus on this matter?

Arma is primarily simulating infantry combat with various types of weapons. The goal is to neutralise hostile units and as a Player it is extremely important to see correct reactions to your actions. Therefore Ragdoll is an key aspect of sucessfully portraiting infantry combat and contributes an decisive part to an believable, realistic and immersive infantry combat simulation.

PP

I think this thread is a little bit more specific than the general Wishlist thread and therefore more fitting.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

PurePassion, in your attempt to create a really well structured post you skimped out on the most important point: why?

IMO, it would add very little in the grand scope of more pressing issues with animations.

[purepassion 22]

Why should you focus on this matter?

Arma is primarily simulating infantry combat with various types of weapons. The goal is to neutralise hostile units and as a Player it is extremely important to see correct reactions to your actions. Therefore Ragdoll is an key aspect of sucessfully portraiting infantry combat and contributes an decisive part to an believable, realistic and immersive infantry combat simulation.

• It adds an massive part to the realism
  
• Enhancing the immersion
  
• Next to that it's also simply awesome eye-candy
  

or what do you mean in detail? ^^

---------- Post added at 20:44 ---------- Previous post was at 20:22 ----------

the point is simply that an non reactive ragdoll system is toally leaving out very important points that are needed to portrait an realistic way of death bodies. To be honest this is surely not the most important aspect of the game, but nevertheless if implemented correctly, will have an very big impact on the overall gaming experience and especially realism and immersion. As stated out above and proven by games like GTA 4 with its

more focus on ragdoll delievers an stunning result.

By adding Ragdoll it should also be your goal to t deliever the best Ragdoll possible. You can achieve that by taking these points in count

- Blending Ragdoll to specific animations

- Differ between lethal and non-lethal hits ( already implemented)

- Add an very simple skeleton and tendon system to prevent these infamous unnatural movements of body limbs

[solidsnake2384 10]

Thats what I loved about GTA4 was its Euphoria engine. Realistic human behaviors. Get hit in the leg theyll hold their leg or a shot to the stomach theyll lean down and hold it.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

or what do you mean in detail? ^^

This thread is about detail. But what I meant was what does it add for the gameplay? IMO it seems like it's just icing on the cake of an improved animation system; not really a core feature.

I could be wrong, but you just haven't sold it to me yet.

On a completely seperate note, I would really like to see the following moves fully implemented (for both players and AI) in ArmA 3:

• "Low" stance (weapon not at the ready) for all weapon simulations
  
• Back/holstered stance for all weapons (rifles slung, handguns holstered, etc..)
  
• Surrender: both dropping of weapons (like the forgotten anims in ArmA 2) and full walking/running and crouching moves in surrender state
  
• If AIS is implemented, there definaely need to be moves to go directly from standing/crouched/moving into an agony state on the ground (rather than going prone and casually rolling over).
  
• Cutscene-esque anims, such as sleeping/resting (the ones in ArmA 2 are good, but faster getting up animations are needed for alerted units) or just generally relaxing. These are very useful for missions missions where you catch the enemy by surprise, but should also be able to quickly transitioned out of when the shooting starts.

---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------

Thats what I loved about GTA4 was its Euphoria engine. Realistic human behaviors. Get hit in the leg theyll hold their leg or a shot to the stomach theyll lean down and hold it.

IMO it doesn't seem like appropriate in a combat game like ArmA. If you get hit it's very likely fatal (in which case you drop down like a sack of bricks) or, if not, you are impaired but still totally functional.

Maybe it's me, but I'd rather not see people hopping around after getting shot in the foot.