CarlGustaffa 4 Posted July 5, 2011 For the MD 500C: and a whole bunch of other helicopter related videos, much related to training. Now, I noticed the guy saying "now let's do the preflight checklist, in case you forgot something". And I thought this preflight was on the extreme side even compared to a GA plane daily inspection routine. So, was he performing preflight checks or a more comprehensive DI? And I realize our checks will be not that thorough for obvious reasons :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OMAC 254 Posted July 5, 2011 Man, this forum is getting better and better. Those vids are prime training material. I never thought I would learn so much about helos, and enjoy myself while doing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Archosaurusrev 12 Posted July 6, 2011 I don't know about you guys but the way I do it is. 1 Batteries on. 2 Starter on. 3 wait a bit then throttle to idle. 4 started + batteries off then throttle to full. 5 Fly normally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0 Posted July 6, 2011 I always set the throttle to idle, when i landed, then to off. After this I engage the rotor break (behind you at the center frame). Heh. I didnt even notice that brake there! thanks! I am curious about its function in this wip preview. I boarded a chopper into the pilots seat, and the rotor blades began to turn slightly before any controls were pressed. I switched rotor brake ON, and the slight turning stopped. However, I am able to take off and land with this rotor brake ON. It didn't limit the helicopters movement abilities, should it have? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liquidpinky 11 Posted July 6, 2011 -Ziggy-;1974914']Heh. I didnt even notice that brake there! thanks!I am curious about its function in this wip preview. I boarded a chopper into the pilots seat' date=' and the rotor blades began to turn slightly before any controls were pressed. I switched rotor brake ON, and the slight turning stopped. [i']However[/i], I am able to take off and land with this rotor brake ON. It didn't limit the helicopters movement abilities, should it have? You would probably burn it out after a while, like leaving a handbrake on while driving a car. You will find it that it will reduce the revs a bit, especially while in idle but full throttle is still flight capable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Archosaurusrev 12 Posted July 6, 2011 Can someone post a picture of where that rotor break is? I can't find it anywhere! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted July 7, 2011 Rotor brakes in helicopters are usually accompanied by a warning light in the cockpit and override the circuit breaker so that the starter will not turn when the rotor brake is engaged. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OMAC 254 Posted July 7, 2011 Can someone post a picture of where that rotor break is?I can't find it anywhere! It's on the roof of the cabin between the seats, against the rear wall. Look up and all the way to your right, towards the rotors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wastelander 10 Posted July 9, 2011 I enjoy flying virtual Choppers. The startup procedure for a Bell 206 provided in the DodoSim software that works with Microsoft Flight Simulator X seems realistic? L7lIltOnzYM 5qn1g7q88-w msbgdsTGzdQ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OMAC 254 Posted July 9, 2011 Awesome. Thanks for posting. Controls are way cool, ultra-realistic, and high-res, but rendering, models, and environment are cheesy compared to BIS products. Going from TKoH to that is like going from A2/OA to Doom 2 or Half-Life 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted July 9, 2011 I enjoy flying virtual Choppers.The startup procedure for a Bell 206 provided in the DodoSim software that works with Microsoft Flight Simulator X seems realistic? L7lIltOnzYM 5qn1g7q88-w msbgdsTGzdQ The Dodo is EXTREMELY realistic. That's how you start a Jet Ranger, and similar for most other single turbine helicopters. I have hundreds of hours flying the DodoSim 206 and it is the closest thing to being in a real helicopter that you can get on a home computer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wastelander 10 Posted July 10, 2011 The Dodo is EXTREMELY realistic. That's how you start a Jet Ranger, and similar for most other single turbine helicopters. I have hundreds of hours flying the DodoSim 206 and it is the closest thing to being in a real helicopter that you can get on a home computer. Now if 'Take On Helicopters' can emulate Sound, Actions and Feel of DODO into the game it would be most excellent :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted July 10, 2011 So far, the only other sim that comes close to the realism of the Dodo 206 is Dreamfoil Creation's 206 for X-plane. Also pretty amazing. Every other attempt at realistic helicopter flight dynamics has fallen short. It's not an easy thing to simulate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sbsmac 0 Posted July 14, 2011 Out of interest, why _do_ helicopter (and, presumably, aircraft) startup sequences involve so much manual intervention? Surely a lot of the sequencing could be automated, leaving the pilot with a only a big red button labelled 'start' ? ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Charles 22 Posted July 14, 2011 Maybe to have more control over the helo and all it's capabilities. I'd imagine it being like a car with manual transmission or automatic.With manual, you have much more control over the car, but it takes a little bit more practise to do so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sundowner 11 Posted July 15, 2011 Actually it's because of their age ;) Modern helicopters like EC135, MD902, etc. have very short startup procedure. In Bell 206, or Hughes 369 series, pilot have to manualy control the engines to prevent them from overheating as there is no FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) that would do this for him. Plus every system has to be checked for faults. Some helicopters have really long pre-flight procedures (Mi-8 family for example), some have very short (CH-53), depends on how complex the machine is and how much automated it's systems are. Here's full before engine startup procedure for a very complex, but modern rotorcraft, shouldn't be hard to gues which one ;) 1. Battery — ON/Checked 2. Center control panel — Set a. Landing gear control panel — Checked b. Flaps — AUTO c. Nacelle control disable switches — Lights out. 3. Overhead control panel — Set a. T-Handles — NORM b. Fuel dump — OFF c. Rotor brake — OFF d. ECLs — OFF e. ALE-47 — OFF f. APU — STOP g. Emergency oxygen switch — OFF h. ARC-210 control — OFF i. Cargo hook control panel — OFF j. Lighting control panel — OFF. 4. External power — As required 5. Fire guard — Posted 6. Flight controls — Set a. Controls — Centered b. TCL — Full aft c. Nacelle switches — Centered. 7. APU — RUN/ENGAGE a. Displays — ON b. APU — Engaged c. MWGB oil pressure — Normal d. Hydraulic pressures — Normal. 8. NAV alignment data — Set a. LAND or SEA — Select b. Preset position/Date/Time — Enter/Verify as require. 9. NORMAL FLIGHT OPS — Select 10. ECS — Set 11. Power Steering — OFF 12. Nose lock — As required 13. AFCS — OFF 14. Nacelle B/U enable — OFF 15. FADECS — Switch 16. Cockpit lights — Set 17. Lamp test — TEST 18. Landing gear — Down/locked 19. Parking brake — Reset 20. External power — Disconnected 21. C/A summary — Checked 22. Present systems status — Checked 23. PFCS — Reset (as required) 24. MAINT DATA — Erase 25. BFWS — Flight ready 26. Avionics Power Select — As required 27. FUEL and O2N2 PFBIT — Initiate 28. Air refueling probe — Checked 29. Mission data — Loaded 30. Aircraft Initialization — Set 31. COMM — Set 32. Flight instruments — Checked 33. Interim power — Checked/OFF 34. O2N2 PFBIT — Complete 35. ECS and IPS (Wing) PFBIT — Initiate 36. External lights — Checked and set 37. Flight Controls — Checked a. Nacelles/flight control surfaces — Clear b. Flight controls — Centered c. TCL — Full aft d. Nacelles — 80 ° e. C/A Summary — Display/clear f. FCS/HYD STAT — Display/clear g. Longitudinal stick — Full forward, aft, center h. Lateral stick — Full left, right, center i. Directional pedals — Full left, right, center j. Trim release — Check k. Force trim — Check l. TCL — Forward to 4-inch stop m. TCL OTVL — Press/advisory posts n. TCL — Overtravel limit o. TCL — Full aft, friction set p. TCL OTVL — Press/advisory out q. TCL — Check 4-inch stop, then full aft r. CONV ACT/HYD SYS C/As — None posted s. L/R NAC CONT DSBL switches — Press (1) DSBL lights — Illuminated (2) L/R PLT NAC CONTR FAIL Caution — Posted (3) Master Alert and PFCS FAIL RESET — Illuminated t. Nacelles — Verify no response u. L/R NAC CONT DSBL switches — Press to clear v. NACELLE B/U ENABLE switch — Press (1) NACELLE B/U ENABLE light — Illuminated (2) CRIT CVRSN ACTR FAULT Caution — Posted (3) MASTER ALERT and PFCS FAIL RESET — Illuminated (4) Primary conversion actuator segments — Red (5) Backup conversion actuator segments — Green. w. Nacelles — Verify response/no conversion actuator C/As x. NACELLE B/U ENABLE switch — Press (1) NACELLE B/U ENABLE light — Off (2) CRIT CVRSN ACTR FAULT Caution — Cleared (3) MASTER ALERT — Reset (4) PFCS FAIL RESET — Self-clear (5) Primary conversion actuator segments — Green (6) Backup conversion actuator segments — Green. y. Nacelles — Verify response/no CVRSN ACT FAULTs/set 90 °. 38. FCS PFBIT — Conduct a. Nacelles/flight control surfaces — Clear b. Nacelles — 90 ° c. FLAPS — 0 ° d. AFCS — OFF e. Controls — Centered f. TCL — Full aft g. PRES SYST STATUS — Check electrical and FCS/HYD WRAs h. FCS PFBIT — Initiate/complete i. FLAPS — AUTO j. AFCS — ON. 39. PFBITs — Complete 40. AVSS — Enable 41. Before Starting Engines Checklist — Complete. And at this point we're ready to let loose some mechanical horses - engine startup checklist: 1. Pins, chocks, and ground wire — Removed and stowed 2. Flight stations — “Check and set†(P, CP, FE, S) a. Seat and harnesses — Adjusted b. Pedals — Adjusted c. ICS control panels and RFIS — Set. 3. Nacelles — 90 ° 4. Fuel system — Set a. Transfer valve — AUTO b. Transfer pump — SUCTION c. Tank isolation — Checked d. AR/HIFR — OFF 5. FADECS — MATCHED 6. ROTOR BRAKE — OFF 7. EAPS and EXDEF — AUTO 8. Displays — Set 9. Area — Clear 10. Flight controls — Set 11. #2 engine — START 12. #2 ECL — FLY 13. #1 engine — START 14. APU — STOP 15. Jettison pins — Pulled 16. #1 ECL — FLY 17. EAPS — Open 18. Manual torque beep — Checked 19. ELS and IPS (Engine/Proprotor) PFBITs — Initiate 20. C/A Summary and Systems Status — Checked 21. PFBITs — Complete 22. STARTING ENGINES CHECKLIST — Complete. Aaaaaand, we're almost ready to go :D Many people wanted to have this aircraft in this game, but how many of those would want to go through all of that for every flight ? Well, I would :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OMAC 254 Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) Many people wanted to have this aircraft in this game, but how many of those would want to go through all of that for every flight ? Well, I would :p Me too. Totally cool tech :cool: More complex the better. You could have a checklist window come up on the side of the screen that you'd have to go through. On easier difficulties it would all be auto. ---------- Post added at 07:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 AM ---------- Thank you. I'll give that a shot.------------------------------ OK, I got it. I was unaware of additional commands available on the stick. There's throttle to idle, throttle to max, and throttle off. Good to know. Mouse over buttons and stick: 1) batteries on 2) starter on 3) after a few seconds, throttle to idle option (on stick below starter) 4) starter off after ignition 5) batteries off (still have to test this) 6) wait until RPM stabilizes at around 70%. 7) throttle to max on stick Optional: 8) Autotrim "on" - although it already is (BIS should fix this!!) 9) Autotrim off - now autotrim is really off 10) Thrust (Q) to max - liftoff 11) Left trim (X) to stabilize rightward rotation 12) Manual trim set 13) gain some altitude 14) Go, baby, go (W). Gain speed as quickly as possible. Most of the above is no longer needed for Veteran (and Expert) flight using beta 82503/82767 with kb/mouse. Here are replacements: 1) batteries on 1.5) lights on 2) starter on 3) after a few seconds, throttle to idle option (on stick below starter) 4) starter off after ignition 5) batteries off 6) wait until RPM stabilizes at around 70%. 7) throttle to max on stick 8) hit collective - lift off 9) Go, baby, go (W). Gain speed as quickly as possible 10) Have fun That's it. Q/Z no longer needed most of the time. Trim can be adjusted via small mouse movements, even on landing. "Manual trim set" hardly needed, either. Edited July 16, 2011 by OMAC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4 IN 1 0 Posted July 15, 2011 Actually it's because of their age ;)Modern helicopters like EC135, MD902, etc. have very short startup procedure. In Bell 206, or Hughes 369 series, pilot have to manualy control the engines to prevent them from overheating as there is no FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) that would do this for him. Plus every system has to be checked for faults. Some helicopters have really long pre-flight procedures (Mi-8 family for example), some have very short (CH-53), depends on how complex the machine is and how much automated it's systems are. Here's full before engine startup procedure for a very complex, but modern rotorcraft, shouldn't be hard to gues which one ;) 1. Battery — ON/Checked 2. Center control panel — Set a. Landing gear control panel — Checked b. Flaps — AUTO c. Nacelle control disable switches — Lights out. 3. Overhead control panel — Set a. T-Handles — NORM b. Fuel dump — OFF c. Rotor brake — OFF d. ECLs — OFF e. ALE-47 — OFF f. APU — STOP g. Emergency oxygen switch — OFF h. ARC-210 control — OFF i. Cargo hook control panel — OFF j. Lighting control panel — OFF. 4. External power — As required 5. Fire guard — Posted 6. Flight controls — Set a. Controls — Centered b. TCL — Full aft c. Nacelle switches — Centered. 7. APU — RUN/ENGAGE a. Displays — ON b. APU — Engaged c. MWGB oil pressure — Normal d. Hydraulic pressures — Normal. 8. NAV alignment data — Set a. LAND or SEA — Select b. Preset position/Date/Time — Enter/Verify as require. 9. NORMAL FLIGHT OPS — Select 10. ECS — Set 11. Power Steering — OFF 12. Nose lock — As required 13. AFCS — OFF 14. Nacelle B/U enable — OFF 15. FADECS — Switch 16. Cockpit lights — Set 17. Lamp test — TEST 18. Landing gear — Down/locked 19. Parking brake — Reset 20. External power — Disconnected 21. C/A summary — Checked 22. Present systems status — Checked 23. PFCS — Reset (as required) 24. MAINT DATA — Erase 25. BFWS — Flight ready 26. Avionics Power Select — As required 27. FUEL and O2N2 PFBIT — Initiate 28. Air refueling probe — Checked 29. Mission data — Loaded 30. Aircraft Initialization — Set 31. COMM — Set 32. Flight instruments — Checked 33. Interim power — Checked/OFF 34. O2N2 PFBIT — Complete 35. ECS and IPS (Wing) PFBIT — Initiate 36. External lights — Checked and set 37. Flight Controls — Checked a. Nacelles/flight control surfaces — Clear b. Flight controls — Centered c. TCL — Full aft d. Nacelles — 80 ° e. C/A Summary — Display/clear f. FCS/HYD STAT — Display/clear g. Longitudinal stick — Full forward, aft, center h. Lateral stick — Full left, right, center i. Directional pedals — Full left, right, center j. Trim release — Check k. Force trim — Check l. TCL — Forward to 4-inch stop m. TCL OTVL — Press/advisory posts n. TCL — Overtravel limit o. TCL — Full aft, friction set p. TCL OTVL — Press/advisory out q. TCL — Check 4-inch stop, then full aft r. CONV ACT/HYD SYS C/As — None posted s. L/R NAC CONT DSBL switches — Press (1) DSBL lights — Illuminated (2) L/R PLT NAC CONTR FAIL Caution — Posted (3) Master Alert and PFCS FAIL RESET — Illuminated t. Nacelles — Verify no response u. L/R NAC CONT DSBL switches — Press to clear v. NACELLE B/U ENABLE switch — Press (1) NACELLE B/U ENABLE light — Illuminated (2) CRIT CVRSN ACTR FAULT Caution — Posted (3) MASTER ALERT and PFCS FAIL RESET — Illuminated (4) Primary conversion actuator segments — Red (5) Backup conversion actuator segments — Green. w. Nacelles — Verify response/no conversion actuator C/As x. NACELLE B/U ENABLE switch — Press (1) NACELLE B/U ENABLE light — Off (2) CRIT CVRSN ACTR FAULT Caution — Cleared (3) MASTER ALERT — Reset (4) PFCS FAIL RESET — Self-clear (5) Primary conversion actuator segments — Green (6) Backup conversion actuator segments — Green. y. Nacelles — Verify response/no CVRSN ACT FAULTs/set 90 °. 38. FCS PFBIT — Conduct a. Nacelles/flight control surfaces — Clear b. Nacelles — 90 ° c. FLAPS — 0 ° d. AFCS — OFF e. Controls — Centered f. TCL — Full aft g. PRES SYST STATUS — Check electrical and FCS/HYD WRAs h. FCS PFBIT — Initiate/complete i. FLAPS — AUTO j. AFCS — ON. 39. PFBITs — Complete 40. AVSS — Enable 41. Before Starting Engines Checklist — Complete. And at this point we're ready to let loose some mechanical horses - engine startup checklist: 1. Pins, chocks, and ground wire — Removed and stowed 2. Flight stations — “Check and set†(P, CP, FE, S) a. Seat and harnesses — Adjusted b. Pedals — Adjusted c. ICS control panels and RFIS — Set. 3. Nacelles — 90 ° 4. Fuel system — Set a. Transfer valve — AUTO b. Transfer pump — SUCTION c. Tank isolation — Checked d. AR/HIFR — OFF 5. FADECS — MATCHED 6. ROTOR BRAKE — OFF 7. EAPS and EXDEF — AUTO 8. Displays — Set 9. Area — Clear 10. Flight controls — Set 11. #2 engine — START 12. #2 ECL — FLY 13. #1 engine — START 14. APU — STOP 15. Jettison pins — Pulled 16. #1 ECL — FLY 17. EAPS — Open 18. Manual torque beep — Checked 19. ELS and IPS (Engine/Proprotor) PFBITs — Initiate 20. C/A Summary and Systems Status — Checked 21. PFBITs — Complete 22. STARTING ENGINES CHECKLIST — Complete. Aaaaaand, we're almost ready to go :D Many people wanted to have this aircraft in this game, but how many of those would want to go through all of that for every flight ? Well, I would :p Let me guess: V22? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sundowner 11 Posted July 15, 2011 (edited) Yes, that's Osprey checklist, pretty much the longest one of the western machines. The eastern have longer, because every single circuit breaker have to be switched on, when on western, only some are switched off after the flight. Although pre-flight checks and start-up is not really longer time wise, as it is performed usually by the whole 3 men crew. Edited July 16, 2011 by Sundowner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sundowner 11 Posted July 16, 2011 I wanted to show you guys how a preflight, and startup is done on estern helicopters, and it's not that easy to find a good video - all you can find is the startup if Nemeth Design Mi-17 for Flight Simulator 2004 - but that's one person flipping switches, plus the checklist is simplified there. The closest one to actually show you how crew works in that kind of helicopter is this one: The last flight of Mil Mi-14PS #1016 of Polish Navy As you can see, the flight mechanic (equivalent of western Crewchief) sitting in the middle is very active in the cockpit during startup, the first 2 minutes shown are quite chopped, the whole process takes minimum 5 minutes with that SAR crew (starting up an ASW is not a race with time and someones fate), plus the "first start of the day" checks are made way before actual preflight and startup procedures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OMAC 254 Posted July 16, 2011 I wanted to show you guys how a preflight, and startup is done on estern helicopters, and it's not that easy to find a good video - all you can find is the startup if Nemeth Design Mi-17 for Flight Simulator 2004 - but that's one person flipping switches, plus the checklist is simplified there. The closest one to actually show you how crew works in that kind of helicopter is this one: The last flight of Mil Mi-14PS #1016 of Polish Navy As you can see, the flight mechanic (equivalent of western Crewchief) sitting in the middle is very active in the cockpit during startup, the first 2 minutes shown are quite chopped, the whole process takes minimum 5 minutes with that SAR crew (starting up an ASW is not a race with time and someones fate), plus the "first start of the day" checks are made way before actual preflight and startup procedures. Awesome. Last flight? Was it being retired? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sundowner 11 Posted July 16, 2011 Yes, it run out of life time - those are limited to 28 years of service. We had 3 of those - #5137 (the one in my sig) was the oldest one and retired in 2009, #1016 and #1013 went out of service last year. Those are being replaced by modified ASW variant - Mi-14PL (now known as PL/R) - there are 2 of those currently in service (#1009 and #1012). We also had two more Mi-14PS but those were totaled - one crashed during practice night water landing on a lake, second one had engine failure, landed on sea, was abandoned by crew... then started up, and autopilot set to head to the shore on its own, although it run out of fuel and capsized (it's not a Sea King, it can't take off from water on one engine ;) ). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OMAC 254 Posted July 16, 2011 That's too bad about the lost choppers. Who makes them, Mir, a Russian company? Who do you work for - Polish air search and rescue? Coast guard? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sundowner 11 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) Russian Mil was making the Mi-14, but the Polish ones were last ones made in the early 1980s, so the original Search & Rescue variant (PS) is pretty much gone, only the ASWs (PL) are still flying in Poland, Cuba, Ethiopia, North Korea, Syria and Ukraine (Libya also had few in working condition, but were probably bombed to oblivion by NATO recently). Those SAR helicopters belong to Polish Navy, we don't have Coast Guard per say, there is an maritime SAR agency, but they have no aviation assets (yet), and there's Border Guard, but their helicopters are used elsewhere. Polish Navy also have 7, much lighter W-3RM "Anaconda" helicopters for SAR work, so there is almost as many SAR-only helicopters as combat ones (3x SH-2G, 8x Mi-14PL) ;) There are 3 Navy Air Bases on the Baltic coast, 2 of those have helicopters, EPDA (Darlowo) have all of the Mi-14s, one W-3RM, and one Mi-2 (for training, light utility), the EPKO (Babie Doly) operates the rest of the SAR W-3RM, ASW SH-2Gs, and utility W-3Ts, and Mi-17s (which are maintained in Darlowo). As for my occupation, I'm currently a civilian contractor for Polish military, I work at the base from which the Mi-14 operate. Edited July 16, 2011 by Sundowner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_michal 10 Posted July 16, 2011 Mi-14 would make a perfect fit for Take On mod... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
