Difference between M4 and M16

[Tonci87 163]

You know what? I really had to laugh when I saw this Thread. I had the exact same Problem with the exact same video and the exact same discussion with COD fanboys.

I jus gave up, no need to waste nervs on such idiots.

[wizbomb 10]

Why don't we all reply to "extremekiler," and say our good man Wiz is correct? :D

i think my point got across lol, i know its childish to argue on youtube but for some reason the whole m16/m4 thing pissed me off

[Inkompetent 0]

They choose to be idiot, let them be.

This. People who actively TRY to be dumb should be left dumb.

[dysta 10]

The lower receiver and trigger assembly will tell you the "Core" of the weapon, which is the real name. That would be specific to identify instead of the shape, length and appearance. For example, this:

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2010/271/4/1/swapped_by_darksamuraix1999-d2znxwo.jpg Image >100kb. There are rules here. Please read them. /Alex72

Edited July 4, 2011 by Alex72

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Because it's longer, right? You grip it by the barrel and swing it real hard...

That's the plan! :D Reminds me of the ole buttstroke animation from OFP.

[max power 21]

lol after telling the guy the difference between the m16 and m4 he said this

Lol you don't know anything for sure, you happen to know the M16 version called XM177?

Go look it up you retard

but somebody actually agreed with me lol, there's still hope in this world!

in the vid i mentioned that i spent the last 5 months researching and AR-15 and if anyone cares here is pictures of it ----> http://www.gamefront.com/files/20473045/Bushmaster+XM-15.zip

I happen to know some things about the xm177 and colts in general, but not really from personal experience. I modelled one, and so sorting out the differences between versions was one of the research tasks.

The M16 series has had a few carbines made after it, not all of them so successful. The one your (probably airsofter) forum friend there is probably referring to is the xm177e2, which was the most widespread M16 carbine before the M4, I'm pretty sure. It's colt model number is 609, and it is quite similar to the m16a1, in that it has a forward bolt assist, a fixed carry handle, and non-adjustable a1 style sights, and a1 style cartridge case deflectors, and a full mag fence, and the m16a1's lazy 1-in-12 rifling twist. The XM177e2 has an 11.5 inch barrel, and such a muzzle blast, noise, and flame, that they needed to design a baffled moderator for the shooter's comfort. Even with the dampening device, you can find video of this thing shooting basketball sized fireballs out the front. The baffled moderator itself is 4.25 inches long... so I guess they just decided to delete that and go with a 14.5 inch barrel in their next iteration. The US airforce has their own variants and naming schemes for these carbines. They prefer it without the forward assist for some reason, and call it the gau-5a/a.

The xm177e2 was the third m16 based carbine adopted by the US army, the first being the CAR-15 or colt model 607. This weapon had a 10.5 in barrel and performed poorly.

There were several m16a1 carbines with longer barrels. The colt model 653 was an m16a1 with a short, m16a2 style foregrip, a teardrop shaped forward assist, and a 16 inch barrel. The colt model 723 was referred to as the 'm16a2' carbine. Confusingly, it has an a1 style fixed carry handle and sights, but a round forward assist and the m16a2 style brass deflector. It probably adopted the newer 1-in-7 rifling twist rate.

Onward toward the m16a2 style rifles, the colt model 727 was a heavy barreled version of the 723, but had a bevel cut into the barrel for the m203 grenade launcher. The colt model 727 was also frequently called the 'm16a2 carbine', and features the adjustable sights of the m16a2 and the other advanced features of the model 723. Laterly, they came out with the colt model 733, which is a carbine with all the features of the m16a1 but a round forward assist button. They have the 11.5 inch barrel but with no moderator.

From the colt model 900 series, the rifles took another design change, getting fatter and shorter foregrips and flat top uppers with a rail with a removable carry handle and a2 style adjustable sights. The model 920 corresponds to the M4; the 921, the m4a1, and so on. The flat top receiver style trickled back into the m16 series rifle with the m16a4.

So you see, this guy is full of shit. There are so many different types of these rifles with different features that to say that the xm is anymore similar to the m16 than the m4 is patently ridiculous.

Edited June 24, 2011 by Max Power

[dysta 10]

`

E2 is a cute, reliable lad for scout unit with it, since it's lighter and surprisingly tougher than M4A1. Of course, for military, the barrel is too short for this.

[wizbomb 10]

lol i was watching the Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 trailer on youtube and this guy said "i hope there ganna have blackbirds in this game" then a guy replied to him saying "Blackbird was in teh World War 2 man, this game is in 21st century..." LOOOOOL

Edited June 25, 2011 by wizbomb

[max power 21]

lol i was watching the Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 trailer on youtube and this guy said "i hope there ganna have blackbirds in this game" then a guy replied to him saying "Blackbird was in teh World War 2 man, this game is in 21st century..." LOOOOOL

What the hell?

[Zipper5 74]

Not sure if trolling...

... Or just spamming.

Either way, please stop.

[wizbomb 10]

Not sure if trolling...

... Or just spamming.

Either way, please stop.

im not sure if your talking about me but i posted that because i wanted to give further examples showing how uninformed CoD fanboys are lol

But i appreciate everyone answering my question.....i always wondered what the main difference between the m16 and m4 were ;)

[rangerpl 13]

What he's holding in the video seems shorter than an M4, it looks like an AR-15 with a 10-inch barrel.

[Innomadic 10]

What he's holding in the video seems shorter than an M4, it looks like an AR-15 with a 10-inch barrel.

Mk.18?

[roberthammer 582]

Mk.18?

Nah - it's somekind Civilian version of Colt model 933 Commando - due of newer rail upper receiver

There are tons of uppers and lowers parts of Ar15/M4/M16 - so from that video can't see the logo on lower receiver properly

Edited June 26, 2011 by RobertHammer

[max power 21]

It's sort of like the old OFP XM with the oversized foregrip, and very short barrel.

[roberthammer 582]

It's sort of like the old OFP XM with the oversized foregrip, and very short barrel.

No - that OFP XM-177E2 is missing the flash hider

read this - http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Operation_Flashpoint#XM-177E2

Anyway that OFP - XM-177S can be the SF one - http://www.modelguns.co.uk/c-xm177.htm

Edited June 26, 2011 by RobertHammer

[max power 21]

I read that, where do you think I go the pic I linked to in the first place :rolleyes:

The OFP model has other differences, like the huge foregrip.

This is an xm?

I think on a website I saw someone refer to it as a 'colt model 723 custom short' or something. I thought it was imfdb but if it did at one time, it doesn't anymore, or so I learned when I dug up that xms image.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Max Power

[stgn 39]

Dysta kinda allready said it. What he is holding is an M16, a M16A1 more accuratly thats because the lower reciver is from a M16A1 rifle and the lower is what is the registered part of the gun in the USA. In 1986 it was made illigal to make any new fully automatic firearms for civilians in the USA which is why all civilian owned full auto ar15 rifles are M16's, theres also a contraption that can make the firearm auto which is in it self not a M16. Now the lower has then gotten a colapsible stok and a flattop upper reciver with a 10.3/5 inch barrel known from the CQBR/Mk18 installed.

@Dysta

E2 thougher than the M4A1??? what do you mean by that.. the only thing "thougher" on the xm177e2 is the upper reciver which is more rigid because of the integraded carryhandle, it is not able to flex as much as flattop upper, not that flex is a big problem anyway.

About the Xm177 I have read that it was accually common not to have the long flash suppressor installed in the early 80ties and instead just have a A1 flash hider installed.

The OFP model does not have the M4 oval larger double shield handguard BIS just modeled it larger like the upper and lower is larger compared to the barrel of a real M16.

STGN

[dysta 10]

@Dysta

E2 thougher than the M4A1??? what do you mean by that.. the only thing "thougher" on the xm177e2 is the upper reciver which is more rigid because of the integraded carryhandle, it is not able to flex as much as flattop upper, not that flex is a big problem anyway.

About the Xm177 I have read that it was accually common not to have the long flash suppressor installed in the early 80ties and instead just have a A1 flash hider installed.

The OFP model does not have the M4 oval larger double shield handguard BIS just modeled it larger like the upper and lower is larger compared to the barrel of a real M16.

STGN

Well, I mean, "tougher", meaning the XM177E2 is longer lasting than M4A1 because of the gas operation cycle is shorter than M4A1, which giving it more sustainable and faster rate of fire, however it will greatly reduce the accuracy especially with shorter barrel, and louder noise from the muzzle.

The M4A1 was frequently jammed not just because of the bolt carrier's problem, but mostly the gas operation was in bad condition, unlike XM177E2 the M4 has slightly longer barrel from the front iron sight, giving it more accuracy of course, but that is highly choking the gas tube if the bullet doesn't leaving the barrel fast enough, or tainted with slightly of dust or water. The gas tube chocking will cause to jam in minor, if too serious it will travel the gun-powered gas back to the receiver and cause to explode. That's why the M4A1 must not submerge into mud or even a tap water. The XM177E2 have not much problem than M4A1 thanks by the gas tube entrance is very close to the barrel exit, so the bullet can immediate fired out and cause fewer chocking than M4A1.

[4 IN 1 0]

Dysta kinda allready said it. What he is holding is an M16, a M16A1 more accuratly thats because the lower reciver is from a M16A1 rifle and the lower is what is the registered part of the gun in the USA. In 1986 it was made illigal to make any new fully automatic firearms for civilians in the USA which is why all civilian owned full auto ar15 rifles are M16's, theres also a contraption that can make the firearm auto which is in it self not a M16. Now the lower has then gotten a colapsible stok and a flattop upper reciver with a 10.3/5 inch barrel known from the CQBR/Mk18 installed.

@Dysta

E2 thougher than the M4A1??? what do you mean by that.. the only thing "thougher" on the xm177e2 is the upper reciver which is more rigid because of the integraded carryhandle, it is not able to flex as much as flattop upper, not that flex is a big problem anyway.

About the Xm177 I have read that it was accually common not to have the long flash suppressor installed in the early 80ties and instead just have a A1 flash hider installed.

The OFP model does not have the M4 oval larger double shield handguard BIS just modeled it larger like the upper and lower is larger compared to the barrel of a real M16.

STGN

Not quite, please remember that pre-ban auto lower's are not limit to M16A1, there are also a numbers of M4 types and even XM types that are on the market, thats why most of the gun shooting people only refer it as AR-15 type with blah blah blah spec on it.(also comes in handy when ordering custom built rifle as well)

Remember, the only improtant part of an AR-15 lower is its SN number, not the name, which is the only way to ID the weapon as per-ban or post-ban, auto or semi.

Edited June 26, 2011 by 4 IN 1

[max power 21]

The OFP model does not have the M4 oval larger double shield handguard BIS just modeled it larger like the upper and lower is larger compared to the barrel of a real M16.

STGN

ORLY?

I think you'll find that the relative dimensions and the details match up fairly well. The artist at BIS gave is extra length so as not to but polies into the retaining cap and the tabs that are held by the slip ring. It looks like the reference was an m4, and the classname for the weapon is 'm4'.

[stgn 39]

Well, I mean, "tougher", meaning the XM177E2 is longer lasting than M4A1 because of the gas operation cycle is shorter than M4A1, which giving it more sustainable and faster rate of fire, however it will greatly reduce the accuracy especially with shorter barrel, and louder noise from the muzzle.

The M4A1 was frequently jammed not just because of the bolt carrier's problem, but mostly the gas operation was in bad condition, unlike XM177E2 the M4 has slightly longer barrel from the front iron sight, giving it more accuracy of course, but that is highly choking the gas tube if the bullet doesn't leaving the barrel fast enough, or tainted with slightly of dust or water. The gas tube chocking will cause to jam in minor, if too serious it will travel the gun-powered gas back to the receiver and cause to explode. That's why the M4A1 must not submerge into mud or even a tap water. The XM177E2 have not much problem than M4A1 thanks by the gas tube entrance is very close to the barrel exit, so the bullet can immediate fired out and cause fewer chocking than M4A1.

I think you have misunderstood something here, first the shorter the AR15 the shorter the service life as a general rule. A 10" barrel gun have a shorter life than an 14,5 M4, this is one of the reasons the HK416 came about originally, this is due to a more violent cycling action exactly because of the short time from the gas port to the muzzle the gun has much less time where there is pressure in the system to cycle the bolt carrier so it has to have a larger gas port compared to 14,5 M4 barrel. XM177E2 and M4A1 use the same bolt carrier. Longer barrel does not equal better accuracy, a shorter barrel can be more accurate than a longer barrel of same manufacture type because it is stiffer. The last you wrote I can't understand your use of the language so I am not sure what you are saying. The M4A1 is not less reliable than an XM177 quit the opposite, because in part by better ejection and buffer.

Not quite, please remember that pre-ban auto lower's are not limit to M16A1, there are also a numbers of M4 types and even XM types that are on the market, thats why most of the gun shooting people only refer it as AR-15 type with blah blah blah spec on it.(also comes in handy when ordering custom built rifle as well)

Remember, the only improtant part of an AR-15 lower is its SN number, not the name, which is the only way to ID the weapon as per-ban or post-ban, auto or semi.

I didn't mean that all auto lowers are M16A1 version the one in the video looks to be one. But I was a bit to hasty to say that all automatic lowers are M16's some colt lowers are marked AR-15 and very few are marked commando/xm177/other I am unsure of the extent of non colt or government contract(H&R and GM) full auto lowers. But A pre 1986 rifle marked M4 in civilian hands I think only a few military XM4's existed back then? I was not talking about semi only civilian rifles at all, they have all sorts of names.

@Max Power

Yes really, I don't know what the artist used as a reference but the end product looks nothing like a M4 handguard not to mention that the M4 is oval and the carbine is round.

Carbine handguard on fix handle upper

STGN

[max power 21]

Likely he was using a side on shots of many different types and chose the m4 handguard and projected it round instead of oval. The forward assist is also the round type, so it's obvious that there's a mixture going on here. You're saying the foregrip looks nothing like the m4s, but it looks nothing like the carbine's either. The only thing we have to go on here are the exact dimensions. The large circumference of the m4's hand guard is exactly the circumference of the colt commando from OFP.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Max Power

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Talk about nerds... what's the difference? One's shorter. End of debate. :rolleyes:

Btw you should have known better than to start this thread; it'll only turn into a debate amongst a bunch of nerds over something most of them have never actually seen/held (or maybe they have; that scares me even more).

[max power 21]

Talk about nerds... what's the difference? One's shorter. End of debate. :rolleyes:

Btw you should have known better than to start this thread; it'll only turn into a debate amongst a bunch of nerds over something most of them have never actually seen/held (or maybe they have; that scares me even more).

It matters because when you're an artist for a community full of bolt counters you need to know your stuff.

BTW how socially well adjusted you appear, logging into an online forum discussion about m4 vs. m16s and calling everyone nerds. What did you expect to find in here? GTFO.