BIS: Work with Modding Community pre-release

[Armoredfury193 10]

Disclaimer: This thread is merely a suggestion / recommendation, not a demand.

In the interest of attracting an even larger fanbase and community, I think it would be a smart move on Bohemia Interactive's part to begin to work with the modding community before the release of the game. An example of an upcoming game and developer that is allowing this is Tripwire Interactive and their new game, Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalingrad. They are working with the modding community to produce a total conversion mod called "Rising Storm" that will add the pacific theater, and will be available when the game itself releases.

If BIS released any necessary modding tools for ArmA3 in advance of the game's release, the available content available to the community upon release would be multiplied without a great deal of effort on their part. In turn this would attract a wider audience. Perhaps the availability of modern factions, weapons, and vehicles would keep the hardcore modern day milsim players from holding out on buying the game until addons were available.

Remember, this is just an idea - in the end I suppose it is up to the modding community to attempt to work with BIS and, ultimately, it's BIS' decision to do anything of the sort whatsoever. In my opinion, though this would be a win-win for both the developers and the community.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Disclaimer: This thread is merely a suggestion / recommendation, not a demand.

This is the suggestion / recommendation thread. Use it.

[Armoredfury193 10]

I thought a topic such as this that involved communication between the community and developers (and not just minor suggestions involving physics, units, etc of which there are countless offshoot threads anyway) would be out of place in the suggestions thread. This is an issue that doesn't necessarily involve the game itself but rather the interaction between community and developers.

In the future I'll be sure to post in an appropriate "master" thread, sorry for the inconvenience.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

This is the suggestion / recommendation thread. Use it.

I do have to ask cameron, what's the point of this subforum if seemingly everything in it belongs in that single thread? :rolleyes:

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I do have to ask cameron, what's the point of this subforum if seemingly everything in it belongs in that single thread? :rolleyes:

I dunno, chief, how about actual information regarding ArmA 3?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I dunno, chief, how about actual information regarding ArmA 3?

Yea, but since there's not enough of that what do you think everyone's going to do instead?

I'm just saying there are some things that could use their own discussion.

Anyway, I do find Tripwire's approach interesting. However I'm not sure if it would be so useful for this community. What I'd like to see is BIS first polish their own stuff before working on community stuff.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Big Dawg KS

[Tonmeister 14]

theres already posts out there dealing specifically with the hard facts, and they're never too far from the top of the list. This topic seems to be more of a suggestion to the devs rather than for the community. I think its a good suggestion.

[Armoredfury193 10]

I will say that before the release of ArmA2, there was really nothing to post about on the forums except what people knew about the game, and what they wanted to see in the game. It would be worthwhile to create an ArmA3 - Suggestions subforum so that people such as myself don't have any doubts as to where they should post...and don't run the risk of being scolded :)

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Yea, but since there's not enough of that what do you think everyone's going to do instead?

I'm just saying it seems like there's going to be a shitload of locked threads building up here.

Ack.

@OP:

BIS' modding tools have been, to an extent, forward compatible with their future releases, point in case being the CWC => ArmA and ArmA => ArmA 2 releases.

As far as actually working with the modding community - my personal opinion is that this is unlikely to happen. BIS has been known to pluck talented individuals from the community's ranks (i.e. Gaia, Johannes, Kegetys) on occasion, but full-blown cooperation is a different kettle of fish.

[cj 1]

I dunno, chief, how about actual information regarding ArmA 3?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=119278

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=119278

these are the threads for actual information regarding arma 3. i never thought i would get this much joy from watching someone rage out on forums ! cheers for all the laughs you doughnut

i strongly agree with the OP, great idea considering how close knit the modding community are with the devs. if they released the modding tools and month or so earlier it wouldn't be giving anything away about the game. it would also serve to avoid the mess that happened in the begining months of ArmA2's release.

[Armoredfury193 10]

Ack.

@OP:

BIS' modding tools have been, to an extent, forward compatible with their future releases, point in case being the CWC => ArmA and ArmA => ArmA 2 releases.

As far as actually working with the modding community - my personal opinion is that this is unlikely to happen. BIS has been known to pluck talented individuals from the community's ranks (i.e. Gaia, Johannes, Kegetys) on occasion, but full-blown cooperation is a different kettle of fish.

I would agree with you here. I don't necessarily think that there should be cooperation on the level that there is between Tripwire Interactive and the RO modders: however, if there were some way for current ArmA2+OA mods to be tested for compatibility pre-release, this would be a great thing for the community and the popularity of the game amongst current and potential players.

Edit: Please don't start arguing on this thread! CameronMcDonald is just trying to keep the randomness and disorganization at a minimum, and I understand that. As far as this topic goes, I just want to hear people's opinions on the proposition.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Armoredfury193

[Tonmeister 14]

@OP:

BIS' modding tools have been, to an extent, forward compatible with their future releases, point in case being the CWC => ArmA and ArmA => ArmA 2 releases.

i think you mean "case in point"...

[CameronMcDonald 146]

i think you mean "case in point"...

Bad my.

@CJ:

Welcome back! Feel free to create a topic about your aching ring in the offtopic area, son/mate/bro/buddy/guy!

@OP:

Problem is that there is a wild variation in the type of mod out there. Because the series has been so "moddable," and mod items range from total conversions to single objects, liaising with even only the major mod teams out there and finding a way to ensure total compatibility would take an inordinate amount of time.

BIS has gone from strength to strength in previous years, but they are still considered a small player in the dev world.

[Armoredfury193 10]

Understood. As much as I would like to see something like this implemented, even in the slightest of forms, I realize that there would still be a period of time before addons for the new game are available in a fully compatible and bug-free state.

More time to play through the new and innovative content that will come with the core game, I suppose!

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Understood. As much as I would like to see something like this implemented, even in the slightest of forms, I realize that there would still be a period of time before addons for the new game are available in a fully compatible and bug-free state.

A person can dream, but as long as it remains possible for people to leave ; off the end of a line of SQF, the majority of addons will have at least one bug at release.

In fact, there are many here who would argue that vanilla A2 itself is not yet in a bug-free state.

[Armoredfury193 10]

A person can dream, but as long as it remains possible for people to leave ; off the end of a line of SQF, the majority of addons will have at least one bug at release.

In fact, there are many here who would argue that vanilla A2 itself is not yet in a bug-free state.

True - so for the purpose of simplifying my intended message, we'll just use the phrases "acceptable state" or "playable state" to describe the addons.

[PuFu 4591]

OP has a point though. If information (class lists, new features, even examples) and tools are released before the game hits the stores, there is a high chance that custom content will be available for A3 sooner than later. It requires a minimum of involvement from the BIS developers to make it happen. There are some moments in a development cycle (from when the game is ready and send to the publisher to when it hits stores) when the actual developers have a stall in their work, so it is not like something like releasing modding information for their community would make a difference in the workflow on BIS level...

Anyways, BIS is known to work with the community (at least some community members). Some content for A2 has been done by different ppl in this very community, and i am sure A3 will still have outside artist working on it.

Edited June 13, 2011 by PuFu

[Big Dawg KS 6]

IMO one of the biggest hurdles right now for modding to improve is the breadth of the documentation/community knowledge. For example, there's a more than sufficient amount of documentation and knowledge for scripting and the basic pipeline for getting new content ingame, but there are also some very moddable parts of the game (such as animations) where community mods have only scratched the surface.

Also, the huge breadth of types of modifications complicates things. Normally individual mods only change very specific things. Total conversion type mods are rare, and even with mods like ACE you still get a lot of mixing and matching of different mods & addons. While this modularity is great, it makes it very difficult to ensure you have the right things in MP and for specific missions. So even with a lot of great mods out there, they probably aren't being enjoyed to their fullest extent.

[Avgeris 64]

PLS work with the BF:PFF!

[Armoredfury193 10]

I wonder if it is possible, then, for BIS to implement a multiplayer netcode that allows for any addons that a player may not have but are required by the server to be downloaded and applied in-game. Once again, I'm going to use Red Orchestra (Ostfront) as an example. Maps and other minor modifications could be downloaded by the server during the MP loading screen.

I know ArmA2 incorporates this to an extent when it comes to missions, but expanding this feature to include other usermade addons couldn't hurt.

The option to download addons from sites such as armaholic would always be available, of course, and would be the better option for obtaining large files quicker. But the complexity of the "mixing and matching" process you mentioned could be simplified by such a system.

[PuFu 4591]

IMO one of the biggest hurdles right now for modding to improve is the breadth of the documentation/community knowledge. For example, there's a more than sufficient amount of documentation and knowledge for scripting and the basic pipeline for getting new content ingame, but there are also some very moddable parts of the game (such as animations) where community mods have only scratched the surface.

totally agree on. It's a mix of lacking the documentation, and poor tools for the job. Even if Maya is supported as an animation pack (importing the animation) it is the only outside software that can deal with it. FBX2RTM is available for VBS, i guess making it available for A2 would be just a matter of will.

Now, if animation system gets a revamp, i would say making animations (manually, no mocap) would be even more difficult.

For a sandbox type of game, the actual documentation provided by BIS is shallow. Of course there is ongoing updates on biki, but that is done by community members, after finding the hard way those tips and tricks - i know that is the purpose of a wiki, but a push in the right direction would be more then appreciated, even for ppl who have popped their cherries long ago.

Also, the huge breadth of types of modifications complicates things. Normally individual mods only change very specific things. Total conversion type mods are rare, and even with mods like ACE you still get a lot of mixing and matching of different mods & addons. While this modularity is great, it makes it very difficult to ensure you have the right things in MP and for specific missions. So even with a lot of great mods out there, they probably aren't being enjoyed to their fullest extent.

That is something that should be dealt with right from the start. The should be a system similar to six, where the bandwidth is shared by community sites and groups, rather than restricting it to one given location.

[Armoredfury193 10]

All of these are issues that I do agree need to be dealt with. Modding is such a large part of what makes ArmA popular - lets face it, without the massive selection of mods and addons available to the ArmA community, the fanbase would be a lot smaller.

BIS has undoubtedly observed this fact since OFP. It's about time they started to at least make a little more of an effort to simplify things for the (very capable, but short-handed) modding community. If modding becomes easier, there's no saying how far the series can go.

[Innomadic 10]

I would like to learn how to Texture...but i got no idea where to start looking :(

I think better communication in how to do stuff like textures would be a nice addition, even if it were just simple easy to do first attempt guides.

[smookie 11]

BIS has undoubtedly observed this fact since OFP. It's about time they started to at least make a little more of an effort to simplify things for the (very capable, but short-handed) modding community. If modding becomes easier, there's no saying how far the series can go.

Modding is already easy as it is.

[icebreakr 3123]

Spending 5+ hours to solve one little model problem is not what I would call an "easy" process :)