They better have female soldiers...

[Dark6-6 10]

The problem is when it is classified as a game breaking major bug, not a feature request. If a game is good, the only people who wont play it because of the characters gender are stupid.

[max power 21]

I wouldn't worry too much about how the community 'classifies' things. It's up to the devs to interpret the community input, no matter what it is.

[Dark6-6 10]

If people are vocal about what amounts to in my point of view to be a bad design choice I feel that I should express that.

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[max power 21]

If people are vocal about what amounts to in my point of view to be a bad design choice I feel that I should express that.

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That's fine. What I'm saying is that, at the end of the day, the community has little or no control over how that kind of input is interpreted, classified, and actioned. So, there is no worry how the community classifies its input. It's a non-issue on BI's side. It's a discussion you're having with other community members and neither side is having much of an effect on BI's system. I think the primary things to think about would be more like whether or not the thing is present on the tracker and maybe how many votes it has, from BI's side. I think incorrect classification is more of a thing for the moderators of the feedback tracker to worry about, as I would imagine going through all of those tickets is a PITA.

[dragon01 902]

Also, where are female civilians confirmed as features of the final game? I have not seen anything...

Well, OK, they're not confirmed, but don't you think it'd be really awkward if they weren't in-game? Maybe it's just me, but I think that completely excluding females from the game wouldn't really feel right.

[Dark6-6 10]

Well, OK, they're not confirmed, but don't you think it'd be really awkward if they weren't in-game? Maybe it's just me, but I think that completely excluding females from the game wouldn't really feel right.

Because there are so many female seals and rangers and opfor isn't a country that forces women to drop out of school so they can be married off.

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[Sneakson 1]

164 is a fat person. 130 is cut fighting weight, maybe 145 and that would be a very solid woman. The female shotputters could very well be a man under all the gear and a helmet.

I am referring to your denial of women's sports, not to your CNN report.

Sports are all about world records and men do have higher average physique and higher world bests but that doesn’t even mean the average men joining the army have higher average physiques than women who do the same you know. Skimpy 50 kg models don’t really enlist casually.

Air crews and navy units are not front line units. Neither are artillery units, and further, last time I checked, those too were counted as combat arms and thus not open to women.

Didn’t say so either, methinks. One article mentions about 15% of military being women and 3% of frontline infantry being women. Other says Air Force, Navy SEALs and so on are going probably to open up for some women by 2016. Navy is already open. I would also think artillery units are already open too. Special Forces like the Air Force, SEALs, Rangers and Green Berets (if that’s referring to a specific organization) are currently not open but being considered.

Given another 10 years I bet we’ll have some eligible women at least.

The problem is when it is classified as a game breaking major bug, not a feature request. If a game is good, the only people who wont play it because of the characters gender are stupid.

It’s a pretty old request. I think the system has changed a couple of times.

Because there are so many female seals and rangers and opfor isn't a country that forces women to drop out of school so they can be married off.

Trying to be racist against Muslims here? I’ll have you know we don’t care much for either Muslims or Americans in Europe.

Or being dumb against Greeks? I don't think forced marriage is a general issue there and a big island ought to have many women.

[scrim 1]

Sports are all about world records and men do have higher average physique and higher world bests but that doesn’t even mean the average men joining the army have higher average physiques than women who do the same you know. Skimpy 50 kg models don’t really enlist casually.

Didn’t say so either, methinks.

1, It's about the average capacity of men and women respectively. If you'd have known/not ignored the basics of how the human body is built, you'd know that women have considerably less potential for developing strength, and considerable less endurance for things like the skeleton when it's under strain. Those things matter a lot.

2, That's exactly what it says. It says something when I've read the source you're using more than you appear to have.

[Dark6-6 10]

Trying to be racist against Muslims here? I’ll have you know we don’t care much for either Muslims or Americans in Europe.

Or being dumb against Greeks? I don't think forced marriage is a general issue there and a big island ought to have many women.

Iran's Bad Hijab Law calls to beat a woman with 70 lashes if she exposes anything more than her hands and face. Tell me they are going to be using female soldiers.

Women aren't as fast or as strong. In a sport they take second place against a man. In combat, they will die, and cause the deaths of their team as a result. I would prefer to have this simulation model that reality to include women realistically if at all. 50% of upper body strength, slower recovery of stamina, slower running speed. I have no problem if they include them, but I don't want it to be at the expense of anything else.

[Sneakson 1]

1, It's about the average capacity of men and women respectively. If you'd have known/not ignored the basics of how the human body is built, you'd know that women have considerably less potential for developing strength, and considerable less endurance for things like the skeleton when it's under strain. Those things matter a lot.

2, That's exactly what it says. It says something when I've read the source you're using more than you appear to have.

US averages don’t matter much since everyone doesn’t join the Army randomly anyways.

I did miss that women are only serving front-line air crew and at sea officially. I thought that "gun crew" was in ground combat. Nevertheless women are allowed in ground combat nowadays. And have served in ground combat despite official records not saying so for some time.

Defining frontlines is though nowadays too as has been mentioned. I wouldn’t know what to call a frontline since WWII.

[WarfighterOne 10]

They better not have female soldiers...

If they add it they are only pleasing the weirdo anime fans and the .01% of women who play ArmA.

Meshing every piece of gear to fit women would take a stupid, useless amount of time.

Women are not in the frontlines

I wont feel right blasting a female soldier in the face.

I don't want to play with trolls posing as females

I will never play as a female and neither will the normal people who play the game.

Edited June 23, 2013 by WarfighterOne

[max power 21]

1, It's about the average capacity of men and women respectively. If you'd have known/not ignored the basics of how the human body is built, you'd know that women have considerably less potential for developing strength, and considerable less endurance for things like the skeleton when it's under strain. Those things matter a lot.

2, That's exactly what it says. It says something when I've read the source you're using more than you appear to have.

I think there is a dramatic difference between individuals as well, and that is not modeled at all.

[Dark6-6 10]

US averages don’t matter much since everyone doesn’t join the Army randomly anyways.

I did miss that women are only serving front-line air crew and at sea officially. I thought that "gun crew" was in ground combat. Nevertheless women are allowed in ground combat nowadays. And have served in ground combat despite official records not saying so for some time.

Defining frontlines is though nowadays too as has been mentioned. I wouldn’t know what to call a frontline since WWII.

They have defended themselves. They do not close with and destroy the enemy in close quarters. A artillery crewman is a perfect example. Artillery shells weigh 100 pounds. If someone doesn't load the shell as fast as possible, the people downrange calling sir support die.

If the smaller person can't drag an injured teammate as fast they die.

If they can't run as fast they die.

Not sure where your arguments are coming from other than an emotional kneejerk instead of logic.

Curious where in Europe you are from. It occurs to me that if not for those Americans you don't care for you'd be speaking Russian.

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[Sneakson 1]

Iran's Bad Hijab Law calls to beat a woman with 70 lashes if she exposes anything more than her hands and face. Tell me they are going to be using female soldiers.

Women aren't as fast or as strong. In a sport they take second place against a man. In combat, they will die, and cause the deaths of their team as a result. I would prefer to have this simulation model that reality to include women realistically if at all. 50% of upper body strength, slower recovery of stamina, slower running speed. I have no problem if they include them, but I don't want it to be at the expense of anything else.

Yeah? And the Bible? Adulterers, all non-Christians, disobedient children, homosexuals and anyone who works on the fucking Sabbath are only some of the people we should kill right away.

Women are slaves. God supports slavery. Sell your children. It's OK to beat your children and slaves. Abandon your family. Sell your clothes to buy a damn sword.

If you don't appease God’s will he will make you eat your sons and daughters.

Lev. 24:16 "He who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death; the whole congregation shall stone him..."

I think women should be equal to men. Anything but is beside the point since people want the visual appearance of women, not a simulation experience of being a woman.

I think there is a dramatic difference between individuals as well, and that is not modeled at all.

Damn right.

I think the game should simulate someone who passes the necessary tests well and equal women, not men who pass it well and women who barely do.

I wont feel right blasting a female soldier in the face.

I don't want to play with trolls posing as females

I will never play as a female and neither will the normal people who play the game.

Bullshit, just misogynic bullshit. Never shot a woman in a game before? Or a child?

And what do you care if "trolls" "pose" as women?

And I think this and other threads prove there is a demand for playing women.

They have defended themselves. They do not close with and destroy the enemy in close quarters. A artillery crewman is a perfect example. Artillery shells weigh 100 pounds. If someone doesn't load the shell as fast as possible, the people downrange calling sir support die.

If the smaller person can't drag an injured teammate as fast they die.

If they can't run as fast they die.

Not sure where your arguments are coming from other than an emotional kneejerk instead of logic.

Curious where in Europe you are from. It occurs to me that if not for those Americans you don't care for you'd be speaking Russian.

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I'm Nordic. Russia invented vodka.

Oh and sorry I completely forgot about how men who don't run fast don't die!

Edited June 23, 2013 by Sneakson

[Dark6-6 10]

Yeah? And the Bible? Adulterers, all non-Christians, disobedient children, homosexuals and anyone who works on the fucking Sabbath are only some of the people we should kill right away.

Women are slaves. God supports slavery. Sell your children. It's OK to beat your children and slaves. Abandon your family. Sell your clothes to buy a damn sword.

If you don't appease God’s will he will make you eat your sons and daughters.

Lev. 24:16 "He who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death; the whole congregation shall stone him..."

I think women should be equal to men. Anything but is beside the point since people want the visual appearance of women, not a simulation experience of being a woman.

Damn right.

Bullshit, just misogynic bullshit. Never shot a woman in a game before? Or a child?

And what do you care if "trolls" "pose" as women?

And I think this and other threads prove there is a demand for playing women.

I'm Nordic. Russia invented vodka.

Oh and sorry I completely forgot about how men who don't run fast don't die!

Iran is an Islamic state. Your points about other religions are moot. They wont have women in combat.

Women aren't physically equal. Your point about individual variation nit being modeled means they are using an average.

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[Alistair 10]

I support it.

Since we will be having insurgency factions in this game.

[Dark6-6 10]

I support it.

Since we will be having insurgency factions in this game.

I agree. Having female models would be a great feature if they can find the time.

If not I'm sure the community will integrate assets into a "must have" addon pack.

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[max power 21]

Women aren't physically equal. Your point about individual variation nit being modeled means they are using an average.

The men depicted in this game are certainly not average in physical dimensions or in capability. They are well above average in height and build and superhuman in physical capability.

[Sneakson 1]

The men depicted in this game are certainly not average in physical dimensions or in capability. They are well above average in height and build and superhuman in physical capability.

Except not being able to sprint more than 50 meters... :(

[max power 21]

Except not being able to sprint more than 50 meters... :(

I haven't tried to sprint with no equipment on, but so be it, the physical performance of the avatars is 'stylized'.

[Dark6-6 10]

I want 2 legged tanks

[max power 21]

Please don't spam.

[Dark6-6 10]

Please don't spam.

Anyone who disagrees with you is automatically spam. If we aren't having a simulation of infantry combat why not have exosuits and lasers and mechs?

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[max power 21]

Anyone who disagrees with you is automatically spam. If we aren't having a simulation of infantry combat why not have exosuits and lasers and mechs?

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I'm not sure what you mean by you're disgreeing with me. This further comment doesn't really seem to bear any relation to my point of fact comment that the size and performance of the characters are not based on human averages. I think in order for you to disagree with me you have to either provide some kind of evidence to the contrary, because I was not indicating a preference or an opinion.

If you have questions or comments for the developers about their ideas about human performance in videogames, I would suggest you try to contact one of them. If you have any suggestions for new units for the game, such as laser-suits, please use the wishlist thread.

Finally, if you have a problem with the way the forum is moderated, contact a moderator in PM. It is in the rules for a reason.

[Dark6-6 10]

I'm not sure what you mean by you're disgreeing with me. This further comment doesn't really seem to bear any relation to my point of fact comment that the size and performance of the characters are not based on human averages. I think in order for you to disagree with me you have to either provide some kind of evidence to the contrary, because I was not indicating a preference or an opinion.

If you have questions or comments for the developers about their ideas about human performance in videogames, I would suggest you try to contact one of them. If you have any suggestions for new units for the game, such as laser-suits, please use the wishlist thread.

Finally, if you have a problem with the way the forum is moderated, contact a moderator in PM. It is in the rules for a reason.

You are getting pretty snarky for no reason. You assert that since this game has stylized running performance that women should be identical. I said if we are ignoring reality I'd like to see mechs, lasers, and power armor.

Or you could continue shallow and pedantic non arguments.