Semi-transparent closeup grass

[ladlon 10]

To remedy the 'grass blocking your view all the time' issue many people complain about, plus to make the view a bit more realistic, maybe make grass that is right in front of you while prone semi transparent (as it would appear in real life, with your eyes focused on a distant object, making the foreground grass blur out and be semi-transparent.

[dmarkwick 261]

Would be a good solution. The ability to lean slightly while prone could also alleviate this problem. IRL of course we can either move our head slightly, or just use a different eye :)

[Evil_Echo 11]

Interesting idea....

[Cyteless 10]

I support this.

[Laqueesha 474]

Great idea. On another note, didn't Dragon Rising do this to some degree?

[HyperU2 11]

Needed.

[bensdale 0]

+1

good idea

[Eclipse4349 0]

I don't like the transparent grass thing, but being able to lean your torso and head a little to the side would be nice. Q and E could be used for this, and a double tap could roll you for those times when you hit the dirt with bullets flying in your general direction.

In real life, laying in tall grass blocks your vision, but it also hides you to an extent. That's just the way it is. If you need to see, you raise yourself up. If there is danger, you don't pop up, or if you do, you hit the dirt and move somewhere else very quickly. There is no reason to arcade-ify this, IMO. Especially since they went to the extent of flattening the grass around you. If it is in your way, crawl to it to flatten it out of your way, then return to your preferred position, just as you would in real life. I would hate to see BIS take away from the immersion with something like transparent grass.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Eclipse4349

[HyperU2 11]

The grass is very realistic, your view while lying in it is not. You shouldn't have to go into a kneeling position to see over grass that you're lying in. Granted peeking your head up will expose you more but AI hardly seems to care.

[Daniel 0]

Great idea this.

[Eclipse4349 0]

The grass is very realistic, your view while lying in it is not. You shouldn't have to go into a kneeling position to see over grass that you're lying in. Granted peeking your head up will expose you more but AI hardly seems to care.

This is wild grass, it is tall. It isn't a manicured lawn that you can see over. I don't know anyone that can see through any solid objects, not even grass... Lol

It would be nice to be able to raise your head up, like a turtle poking it's head up above water, or to be able to raise your torso up on your elbows to see just over the grass without going as far as taking a knee. But transparent grass? Please no!!!

By the way, please don't take any of my replies as flaming, I always mean anything I say in a good natured way!

[HyperU2 11]

Tall grass is the same, I've experienced laying in it all too much. It's still easier to deal with irl, and not realistically represented in the game.

[Eclipse4349 0]

I agree with you on that. As I said, it would be nice to be able to raise your head up, like a turtle poking it's head up above water, or to be able to raise your torso up on your elbows to see just over the grass without going as far as taking a knee.

But transparent grass is far from realistic.

[Millenium7 0]

perhaps we need a 'free move' key along the lines of free look? I.E. instead of using Q/E for leaning left right at a fixed distance, you hold Q and move the mouse incrementally to lean further left/right and also raise/lower stance. This would also help a lot with buildings as a lot of the time you have top pick between standing up and not being able to see more than 10 metres out the window, or kneel which is too low to hit anything <200 metres. But if you could fine tune it you can line up your viewpoint through or over any window, wall, grass etc

[Eclipse4349 0]

perhaps we need a 'free move' key along the lines of free look? I.E. instead of using Q/E for leaning left right at a fixed distance, you hold Q and move the mouse incrementally to lean further left/right and also raise/lower stance. This would also help a lot with buildings as a lot of the time you have top pick between standing up and not being able to see more than 10 metres out the window, or kneel which is too low to hit anything <200 metres. But if you could fine tune it you can line up your viewpoint through or over any window, wall, grass etc

They had something similar in a Rainbow Six game. You could float anywhere in between standing and crouching. It was a good idea, just of no use in that game. Now, in this case, being able to maneuver like this while prone would definitely be useful. As long as it was restricted to a realistic limit in range of motion and whether it interferes with holding or firing your weapon.

[ladlon 10]

Hi, guys. Wow, some good discussion on my thread!

When I say 'semi-transparent', I don't mean in an unrealistic cheat mode type way... Take any object, hold it in front of your face, and focus on something in the distance... It goes 'semi-transparent' (...or, more realistically, the drastically different viewpoints from each eye are merged, and each one cancels the 'object' out of the other because the background is in that spot in the opposite eye). So, it would be realistic.

Yes, it's wild grass, and I would be one of the first to fight for it to stay there. I LIKE the fact that your view is obscurred sometimes, and that lying in the grass is.... well... like lying in the grass. But, realistically, the grass in front of your face (only) should go uber blurry and/or semi-transparent. It'll still obscure your view... but not entirely block it... just as in real life.

And, oddly enough, I actually made a very similar suggestion long ago about having a 'free move' head while prone. Right now, we can look left/right/up/down, but being able to crane your neck up to look over grass (or whatever) would be great. Doesn't seem like TrackIR allows for it, when I use it. It would actually be great if Arma2 would have ALL axis for the TrackIR, and I'm kind of surprised it doesn't.

Impliment both the semi-transparent grass, and the free move head in prone, and I'd be very satisfied.

(...and fix the rocks that launch you in the air, too!) ;)

[Flash Thunder 10]

depth of field?

Is this even in arma 2 or OA?

I think this is what is needed.

[Eclipse4349 0]

depth of field?

Is this even in arma 2 or OA?

I think this is what is needed.

That is indeed what it is called. That would be fine. Going out of focus is one thing, and is a good touch of realism and immersion. Become transparent is something else entirely. I do believe we were all saying the same thing, but saying it differently... Glad someone could recall the actual word for it!

[ladlon 10]

Depth of field is part of it (the out of focus part). The foreground should go out of focus when you are looking at something in the distance.

What I am talking about is technically parallax, which is part of it as well.

The objects in front DO go semi-transparent... again, because you are superimposing two images from two different vantage points (both eyes)... so the object is in a different spot in each eye (...that's the whole basis for creating 3D movies/images). As a result, there is 'background' in the opposite eye, where there is 'object' in the other eye... thus, when the two are superimposed, you have two, semi-transparent objects in front of you.

Again, just hold a pen or something in front of your face, then focus on something in the distance... You'll see exactly what I mean. Parallax causes the double/shifted image (and as a result, the semi-transparency of the two object image), and depth of field (or perhaps more accurately, depth of focus) results in the objects being blurry (...when you are focused on a distant object).

All that said, all that would need to be done in Arma2 (rather than some complex DOF/double imaging cod, which would not be a welcome CPU hit) would be to simply blur up JUST THE FOREGROUND GRASS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF YOU, and make it semi-transparent... which would create the same effect, without much effort.

And, obviously, the free-move head thing should be implimented anyway, for more reasons than this.

[Eclipse4349 0]

Depth of field is part of it (the out of focus part). The foreground should go out of focus when you are looking at something in the distance.

What I am talking about is technically parallax, which is part of it as well.

The objects in front DO go semi-transparent... again, because you are superimposing two images from two different vantage points (both eyes)... so the object is in a different spot in each eye (...that's the whole basis for creating 3D movies/images). As a result, there is 'background' in the opposite eye, where there is 'object' in the other eye... thus, when the two are superimposed, you have two, semi-transparent objects in front of you.

Again, just hold a pen or something in front of your face, then focus on something in the distance... You'll see exactly what I mean. Parallax causes the double/shifted image (and as a result, the semi-transparency of the two object image), and depth of field (or perhaps more accurately, depth of focus) results in the objects being blurry (...when you are focused on a distant object).

All that said, all that would need to be done in Arma2 (rather than some complex DOF/double imaging cod, which would not be a welcome CPU hit) would be to simply blur up JUST THE FOREGROUND GRASS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF YOU, and make it semi-transparent... which would create the same effect, without much effort.

And, obviously, the free-move head thing should be implimented anyway, for more reasons than this.

I understand what you are saying, but wouldnt the grass in front of the grass that is farther than 3" from your face still block your vision? Without extending the transparency further than paralax would account for, you gain nothing, unless you are lying on the crest of a hill with the only grass between you and your target practically poking you in the eyeballs.

[ladlon 10]

Yes, only the grass directly in front of your face (and nearby), just as in real life. Distant grass would be opaque as it is in real life.

This would still address the problem many users are complaining about, plus stay within reality. The grass that causes most people grief is (conveniently) really just the 'very up close' grass, since (because of its close position) is not only (relative to the other grass) tall, but also (relatively) wide... and as a result, really blocks your view in a bad way. A single blade suddenly becomes like a tree... which wouldn't be a problem, if it were 'semi-transparent' (..technically, merged with a non-blocked viewpoint... but for the sake of the sim, a semi-transparent object would simulate the effect just fine, with minimal CPU hit).

That's really what others (including myself) are complaining about... is that single blades of grass are literally BLOCKING your view completely, rather than obscuring it (semi-transparently). You'd still get the 'inconvenience/reality' of long grass obscurring your view... it just wouldn't completely block it.

Actually, you could even leave the depth-of-field aspect out (blurring the foreground), as it's gameplay affect (as opposed to visual effect) would be pretty minimal. Although 'more real', it would only remedy the 'blocking' problem very, very slightly... so implimenting a DOF blur would really be more eyecandy than anything... which is still cool, as long as it doesn't cause a performance hit.

Things like buildings and other large items wouldn't have the semi-transparency effect, as their width would result in both eyes being blocked by them, whereas something thin like grass would not block both eyes. For the sake of the sim, rather than 'considering width', you could easily just make grass (and maybe bushes?) semi-transparent when right in front of you (...maybe just consider their distance?)... and not any other objects... even if they contain 'thin' elements. No one would really miss it.

I just think this would be minimal code and CPU strain, but would be a nice 'fix' to the issue that many people seem to be bothered by.

Heck, if it were up to me, I'd have EVERY aspect optional... be it graphical, gameplay, difficulty, etc. That's the way I like things, and then everyone can set it the way they like... purple tanks and all!

[metalcraze 290]

Grass doesn't become semi-transparent in real-life. Even if BIS will make a few pieces of grass on the forefront semi transparent the rest of the grassy field will still block your view with the exactly same effect and result.

Jesus christ people, grass is a real view obstacle for soldiers in real life. You are not forced to lie in the grass all the time. Crouch or choose a better position. Learn to play and stop complaining.

Edited December 30, 2010 by metalcraze

[Millenium7 0]

Grass doesn't become semi-transparent in real-life. Even if BIS will make a few pieces of grass on the forefront semi transparent the rest of the grassy field will still block your view with the exactly same effect and result.

Jesus christ people, grass is a real view obstacle for soldiers in real life. You are not forced to lie in the grass all the time. Crouch or choose a better position. Learn to play and stop complaining.

I think your missing some key information here. In RL you have access to much more than the WASD keys, simultaneously. It's not difficult to shift your head 2cm to the side and upwards quickly in order to get a line of sight to your target. In the game we have access to 10 fingers and some wrist movement (interpret that how you will), usually only half of those are used. And without the ability to make minor height variations its incredibly clunky to operate within grass in the game.

OP is correct with the transparency thing which will NOT block your view anywhere near as much because you can see objects through it. Close 1 eye take your finger and move it right up close to your open eye, now 50% of your visibility is blocked, that's how it looks in the game. Now open your other eye and what happens? miraculously you have about 90% visibility again with a transparent out of focus finger

[dmarkwick 261]

Grass doesn't become semi-transparent in real-life.

In real life I can move my head about to see around grass, use a different eye, reach forward and move grass. Simulating reality is not about denying features because it isn't "real", it's about replacing stuff with appropriate analogs. Until I can use TrackIR while prone to move my head around even just slightly, I guess a semi transparent close up grass would be appropriate :)

[ladlon 10]

Grass (and anything up close) DOES become semi-transparent in real life.... If not, then you do not have 'binocular' vision (that being two separate eyes, not as in 'magnifying'). One eye has a clear view (not blocked by the object), the other doesn't... Those two are merged together in the brain, and results in a semi-transparent object. Don't believe me? Just try it. It's common science, fact, and the entire basis for 3D vision and depth perception.

Again, I wouldn't be making a fuss over it if the solution to it would be a huge CPU draw or a hassle, but simply making grass/bushes right in front of you (within 1/2 a foot or so) would be an easy fix, and would probably appease the many players who have issue with how it is currently done.

The only grass to become semi-transparent is the grass within 1/2 a foot of your face, as in real life). Not only is that realistic, but it is ONLY that grass (that is huge, in SCREEN size) that is unnaturally blocking your view.

Those still doubting... Put your hand (fingers spread) in front of your face (an inch or so away). Try reading the posts on the forum. You can... Why? Because your fingers aren't blocking your view.... They are 'semi-transparent' (blocked view mixed with a non-blocked eye view), and as a result, you can see ALL THE TEXT... not SOME of the text.

Again, if it were a huge deal to fix, I wouldn't even mention it... and unless you are a bird, or some animal with non-binocular (non-depth) vision, that's the way it is in life. Simple fact too is that people have been complaining about it... not because they are whiners who want the game to be easy, but because it is not realistic, and without being able to crane up your head, a problem with the sim.