simplify not stupidify

[twisted 128]

Recently I've been trying to get a family member to try and buy arma2 OA.

one thing that really stood out was how many keypresses it takes to do basic things.

just getting 10 ai squad to mount 2 jackals was an exercise that took surprisingly long for someone new to the game.

i've grown so used to it that it is second nature, but it's really tricky for newcomers. So can you say barrier to entry!

not sure how a simplified interface would work, but i suggest that BIS could make the basics easier AND ALSO keep the advanced keypresses we have now.

also having at least 3 different menus doesn't simplify things either - space bar brings up one set of options, ` brings up others, middle mouse button brings others and i feel like i have missed a few.

again i've grown used to it, but it is tricky.

yes i know it is a simulation, but somehow i don't think getting a bunch of guys to split in 2 and board vehicles has ever seemed so complex.

giving orders is similarly overly complex without actually giving much control over the end result - just try telling your medic to heal you, and not one of your other injured ai, by using keypresses alone. or get your AI to rearm at an exact person.

how to solve it? am no ui expert, but there must be a way that makes it easier to pick up but keeps (and perhaps even adds more control to) the advanced key presses we have now.

:butbut:

[demonized 20]

look at this:

also look at these from same maker as top link:

part 1:

part 2:

[Slides 10]

Voice commands can be difficult to use in gameplay. We need a better UI for AI commands

[demonized 20]

Organisation is key when using keyboard commands.

before you head out into action assign group red, blue, vehicle groups etc.

then you can shift and press on f key and all of that color will be selected.

furthemore attack, getin, move, watch etc can be used with hotkeys and click very simple.

Anyhow, yes its not the most efficient system, but how would you go about having a better system with same amount of commands???

You cant, assigning more keys to be used will only confuse alot of us since we already use alot of keys depending on role played.

Ive not tried that VAC i posted in above, but it seems as the best solution as of now.

Edit: also you can get one of thos fancy gamerkeyboards and assign macros to quick select get in driver disembark etc etc.. but then again, more keys...

Play online coop and you dont need any command keys ;)

This is the way arma is meant to be enjoyed at its best.

[Slides 10]

Graphical UI can be updated to respond to context instead of just a numbered menu system. Other games have done this.

[Gunter Severloh 4071]

Graphical UI would be an interesting new twist to the game, for such an example I remember playing

Rainbow 6 ravenshield with its userinterface.

But tbh, I think if BIS saw fault or felt that the current system which is slightly upgraded from OFP and not by

much didn't work they prob would have changed it by now, I would think.

Lets also consider were aiming for military realism, not trying to revert to a COD or BF2 style of gameplay with its run n gun user interface,

of course thats why we have the difficulty options.

The question that comes to mind is how do you simplify without makeing the UI to gamish which in a way already

is unless you turn all that off, or down.

I already had a friend recently explain to me his frustrations with Arma2 and how he is not getting used to it because of the

controls and the menus, but like the rest of us if you stick to it and ask questions, and play around with it, you will discover

it really isn't hard at all, you will become accustomed to what numbers, do what and when, and how to execute what when, lol

I know this is easy to say to some of the newcomers to the game as they havent really got anything down yet, it is challenging to a degree,

and prob confusing to say the least.

Personally I would have to see a better working example using the exisiting commands, or information for communication and commands,

as far as I can say the system can be improved apon but where specifically, and as has been said you cant really replace the control,

or relocate them, and if so where, and how, the system already uses a good portion of the keyboard as it is.

I'm personally not fighting it but open to new suggestions or ideas on the system to make it simpler.

[Banderas 0]

Well OFP/ArmA series aren't simple games, they have a learning time to take. Either the newcomer will get to the taste of it, either he/she will be like "ArmA suxxx" and will be going back to good ol' rail shooters.

The command UI made a big evolution from OFP times, some of the newcomers may don't know this, but it became better in some ways, although at the same time more difficult because of added possibilities. Honestly I don't know what system would be the most ideal, but keep in mind CM also couldn't make a significantly easier command interface for their own incarnation of Flashpoint. It's hard to make it at this level.

In R6 Raven Shield, the case is much different, as we had the pre-mission planning phase, where you could put the waypoints with the commands before playing the mission, also you could control a max of 8 operators (if I remember well) in max. 3 fireteams. In A2 you can have 128 soldiers in one group.

Tactical games on smaller scales also have a lot of key-combinations and complex command interfaces which have to be learned (SWAT 4, Ghost Recon, Combat Mission series, ect...) simpler "tactical" games aimed mainly for the console market can have extremly simplified command systems, which are designed for their 16 button controller (R6 Vegas, GR Advanced Warfighter).

High command is a nice addition to cut a bit down on micro-management in my opinion.

I think that only either voice command or a mind control device could solve this problem :)

[b00tsy 28]

Whats hard about it? You press the space bar (or the F buttons) to select the team and point your mouse to the vehicle and select 'get in'.... which has already been mentioned I see now :)

[NoRailgunner 0]

It all depends on people and their will to learn something new. Ask a Falcon/LockOn/DCS Black Shark player how long it took him to master his first flights. A2+OA are not even close to this learning curve.

Of course its a little bit more than simple button clicks or just following screen hints eg "press A" "press X" through the whole game... ;)

[Smurf 12]

There should be 2 users interfaces, one simplified (for really quick and simple solutions, like when under fire or some situation like that) e other complex.

The simple is something like R6 (commo rose is a good design), with the most comom used actions like Go.., Return, Attack, Watch, Stances\Behavior (sub-menus for some of these) and one "slot" to open the complex menu, which we have now (and is fine).

But thats not going to happen...

One thing that I wanted is that when you assign a team (Red\Blue..) those guys become a fireteam or something, which have their own formation,take care of themselves (just like when the AI send groups to hunt or flank someone) and those units selected "fold" in only box\unit in the GUI to make easier to control them (I am aware of the Shift+Fx stuff, but sometimes it gets messy with too many units or groups).

[ryguy 10]

The command could most certainly be simplified. I think the menu idea is fine but the fact that it uses scroll wheel makes it much more difficult. In games like R6 Vegas you hold down one button which brings up a new menu. At that point you could use arrow keys to move the menu, and make it easier to find things by using pictures or something. That's just one idea, but the UI could be made easier while still keeping the same amount of commands, it's definitely possible.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

I pick the command 1st (backspace), then add which team member/s (F keys). Seems simple to me.

[Baff1 0]

The command could most certainly be simplified. I think the menu idea is fine but the fact that it uses scroll wheel makes it much more difficult. In games like R6 Vegas you hold down one button which brings up a new menu. At that point you could use arrow keys to move the menu, and make it easier to find things by using pictures or something. That's just one idea, but the UI could be made easier while still keeping the same amount of commands, it's definitely possible.

This is the one, a fluid to engage Crysis style wheel menu interface, with OpF DR style sub menus off the main wheel to allow for complexity of function.

Alternatively sub commanders who do all the sub commanding.

So instead of telling all the 10 soldiers to climb into the 2 HUMVEE's, you just tell the sargeant.

And he does all that and gets them all to reload and scavenge weapons and heal and change ROE's and formations and move to the next waypoints and form fireteams etc.

And you can override his orders at any time.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Baff1