Role of India in the Anti-terror campaign

[vilas 477]

It is funny when you talk about things you know nothing about and I guess you fell asleep in English class because just because I can understand your broken english doesn't mean it counts as speaking it fluent.

@shobhit You're not going to win with a person like vilas. People like him are close minded and think their shit doesn't stink. You can't have a civil debate with a close minded person I should know I live in America.. And you def. won't win with someone who's been banned more than once like vilas.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html <<< must read

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=37825

why people say about American ignorants - example like BigMac, "if you not love American foreign politics, you are stupid shit minded "

this is arrogance

live in country which invades other and call stupid people who want peace and no violence in the world

"let anyone join war, war, war, sell arms, war, war, war, sell tanks " America... if you don't like US you are stupid, not educated, moron... whatever ,

Edited November 19, 2010 by vilas

[Big Mac 19]

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=37825

And that proves your point how? Some nutjob on the forum and some website which was obvious done by someone with no skills and a lot of crackpot one sided ideas? I will concede that the world isn't perfect and that the US isn't without it's own share of bloodshed, but unlike most other countries the US doesn't shed blood without some pragmatic reason. Edited November 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[vilas 477]

US doesn't shed blood without some pragmatic reason

an oil ?

[Big Mac 19]

an oil ?

Thats a pragmatic reason. Let me ask you something. Would rather the world's superpower kill for oil or some religious ideal that says anyone who doesn't go to my church get's wiped off the face of the earth? Oil is something you can negotiate with.

[vilas 477]

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html

you call those facts not happened ???

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html

total bullshit ? never happened ???

Would rather the world's superpower kill for oil

criminals and bandits kill for money and attack to take materialistic thing

burglars, thieves, robbers - they kill for money

it is the same evil as religious freaks, btw one rocket for jet costs more than some people need for cancer-treatment

Edited November 19, 2010 by vilas

[Big Mac 19]

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html

you call those facts not happened ???

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html

total bullshit ? never happened ???

only criminals and bandits kill for money and attack to take materialistic thing

burglars, thieves, robbers - they kill for money

I never said it was bullshit. Just one sided. Vilas you obviously havent read history or have even opened a newspaper because it happens all the time. There is no just thing as a "Just Cause" anymore. You need to get a reality check.

why people say about American ignorants - example like BigMac, "if you not love American foreign politics, you are stupid shit minded "

this is arrogance

live in country which invades other and call stupid people who want peace and no violence in the world

"let anyone join war, war, war, sell arms, war, war, war, sell tanks " America... if you don't like US you are stupid, not educated, moron... whatever ,

And this children is why you can't have a civil debate with a tool like vilas. Edited November 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[shobhit 10]

@Vilas and Big Mac

Guys this topic is a serious discussion regarding India's role in AT operations. If you have any opinions as to how it should go about it, whether it should or not, what could be the political ramifications of such an action, strategies and tactics etc.

THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR YOU GUYS TO CUSS EACH OTHER.

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT RELIGIOUS DEBATES

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THE "EVIL" US EMPIRE

Please argue like the educated and smart people that I hope you are. Vilas and I have very different opinions and have moved our discussions out of this thread. Big Mac and Vilas I suggest you do the same. I intend to have an intelligent argument henceforth regarding the aforementioned topics. Kindly adhere to the topic.

@Big Mac I think Vilas is opinionated rather than close minded. Close minded is too strong a word. He has his views and we have ours, let's respect that. :)

@Vilas dude, I respect your views and even agree on certain points but also do try to understand our positions on previous arguments. :)

Thanks all

[vilas 477]

I never said it was bullshit. Just one sided. Vilas you obviously havent read history or have even opened a newspaper because it happens all the time.

i know history, but people like Hitler we call criminals and most evil

There is no just thing as a "Just Cause" anymore.

and thats why those terrorists hate west world

cause just cause was when durring WW2 US troops were fighting Hitler, which gas murdered milions of civilians

it was just

and it should stop on this level , reacting when evil things happen , even if country is poor and has no oil - like atrocities in Africa , like some big companies who badly treat locals when digging for raw materials

i would like to see US commando attacking fat rich businesman whose company for example make problems for local people in tiny island and who hired mercenaries

there was on French channel "Planater" broadcast about as i remember Sierra Leone

why not attack such company, why not sent 10 000 troops where hutu(or tutsi) slaughtered milion of tutsi(or hutu)

milion people was slaughtered in country which.. has no oil

------------

@Vilas dude, I respect your views and even agree on certain points but also do try to understand our positions on previous arguments.

just seen your post, okay, i am quiting US issue , and leaving this tread about US

Close minded is too strong a word. He has his views and we have ours, let's respect that

for some people socialists are stupid, not "sensitive for people's suffering"

[shobhit 10]

@ Vilas

Thanks man..lets stay on -topic

[Big Mac 19]

I've said my piece and I could keep going on, but shobhit is right it is off topic....but I still win..

[spooky lynx 73]

Maybe I'm nut but I don't see ant Anti-terror campaign anywhere. Instead of it there is a number of military invasions and operations conducted by NATO countries. And all of them are made not for "peace all over the world". So I think that it's good that India doesn't spend any of its resources (either armory or human) to help some countries to establish and expand their influence.

[shobhit 10]

BTW Guys....im planning an undercover mission with McNools Tier 1 operators (theyr awesome!) and im open to suggestions if you do have any either PM me or post it in the Undercover missions thread:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=1787494#post1787494

Thanks

---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 PM ----------

Maybe I'm nut but I don't see ant Anti-terror campaign anywhere. Instead of it there is a number of military invasions and operations conducted by NATO countries. And all of them are made not for "peace all over the world". So I think that it's good that India doesn't spend any of its resources (either armory or human) to help some countries to establish and expand their influence.

True. It does seem like an invasion under the pretense of a AT ope. But lets look at this from India's POV...any operation which hampers the operations of Af-Pak religious extremists would be of benefit to India. As for resource expenditure, sure the intial cost may be high but the long term strategic benefits to India (lesser maintenence cost of the NW borders due to reduction in PM forces and the internal security itself makes it worth it. You have raised an excellent point. Will it help America establish a powerful regional presence? well it depends on the political conditions in America. After all it is a Democracy and the american people want their troops back home and the current establishment seems keen getting everyone back. But you never know. We very well could be helping US establish a stepping stone to launch itself into Iran.

[Baff1 0]

Doesn't India have plenty of problems of it's own to deal with?

The only reason for anyone outside it's neighbours to get involved in Afghanistan is either the drugs trade or to suck up to America.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Baff1

[spooky lynx 73]

As for resource expenditure, sure the intial cost may be high but the long term strategic benefits to India (lesser maintenence cost of the NW borders due to reduction in PM forces and the internal security itself makes it worth it.

I shoudn't say there would be any benefits to India. The only 'benefit' of ISAF presence in Afghanistan for my country is dramatically increased drug traffic.

[Baff1 0]

when someone comes to my home, he doesn't have right to change my furniture the way he want

If I marry her she does.

In the end if someone comes to my home, my furniture may well get re-arranged out of necessity or the preference of others.

Basic hospitality may require this course of action.

If you can't handle that, then it is best that you prevent them getting inside in the first place rather than worrying about what they do once they are already in.

---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------

I shoudn't say there would be any benefits to India. The only 'benefit' of ISAF presence in Afghanistan for my country is dramatically increased drug traffic.

It's dramatically increased in mine too, but we benefit from military co-operation with America, so it's not all lose.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

Ahh...the Vacuum strategy...nice, ensures chaos, confusion, general bewilderment and bed-wetting in the enemy.

Well I'd pay a lot of money to see Osama's face when the US says "eff this! im outta here! peace... bitches!".

There is no reason to stay.

As long as the Taliban know that we can still return and bomb them anytime we wish, Osama's face will still be hiding in his cave.

Chaos ensues? Afghanistan has never been more chaotic than it is right now. We can't actually make it worse by leaving.

[tiket 0]

i am a Indian,our government can provide any other type of help except ,military help.

we are providing aid already to our neighbor

our government has already cleared views

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------

Doesn't India have plenty of problems of it's own to deal with?

The only reason for anyone outside it's neighbors to get involved in Afghanistan is either the drugs trade or to suck up to America.

yes we have many things in our home to deal,but we have a close look in situation of Afghanistan.

Edited November 19, 2010 by tiket

[Big Mac 19]

Maybe I'm nut but I don't see ant Anti-terror campaign anywhere. Instead of it there is a number of military invasions and operations conducted by NATO countries. And all of them are made not for "peace all over the world". So I think that it's good that India doesn't spend any of its resources (either armory or human) to help some countries to establish and expand their influence.

Because everyone knows that Russians are peace loving people who would never invade another country... If anyone believes that then I got beachfront property in Montana to sell you... Edited November 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[spooky lynx 73]

Because everyone knows that Russians are peace loving people who would never invade another country... If anyone believes that then I got beachfront property in Montana to sell you...

So please name any invasion of independent country by Russia since the end of WW2.

[Big Mac 19]

Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan, Georgia. I would say Chechnya, but they're not an independent country. Those countries Russians were directly involved in. You've also incited violence and political unrest in many of the former Soviet republics and else where in the world and then when war starts you send "volunteers" or "advisers" to fight for the side you want to win.

I love it when you people dip your collective wicks into other people's internal politics, but then come back and condemn the US when we do it. Stop trying to paint NATO as an evil empire and Russia as a benevolent country who minds their own business. You're not Switzerland...

Edited November 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[derk yall 0]

Spooky Lynx: Invasion into Hungary in 1956? Invasion into Czechoslovakia in 1968 for example? But that was done together with the rest of warshaw pact, and that's the past from wich we have already learned. In the Cold War era, every nation did some wrong there and there, the propaganda lies were on both sides and some seams to still remain.

Big mac: Afghanistan cannot be aplied, the Soviet forces were "invited" to support the legimit governament by the heads of states of Afghanistan. Georgia is also not a good example, because the russian forces came to the country to stop the Gergian agresion against the Osetian people.

[shobhit 10]

Spooky Lynx: Invasion into Hungary in 1956? Invasion into Czechoslovakia in 1968 for example? But that was done together with the rest of warshaw pact, and that's the past from wich we have already learned. In the Cold War era, every nation did some wrong there and there, the propaganda lies were on both sides and some seams to still remain.

Big mac: Afghanistan cannot be aplied, the Soviet forces were "invited" to support the legimit governament by the heads of states of Afghanistan. Georgia is also not a good example, because the russian forces came to the country to stop the Gergian agresion against the Osetian people.

Didnt know that the Soviets were so effective at propaganda. Afghanistan was INVADED by the USSR. The President was assassinated by Spetsnaz troops which assaulted his palace and also Captured the airport to help land VDV divisions. The Soviet Union is probably the worst offender in the "Sticking noses in others business"category.

---------- Post added at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------

Following are the benefits'

1. Internal security of India is bolstered

2. Reduced cost of maintain massive AT forces and Army units in CI ops in NW regions..and im talking MASSIVE cost cuttings

3. Increased regional political clout

4 better Indo-US ties

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

i am a Indian,our government can provide any other type of help except ,military help.

we are providing aid already to our neighbor

our government has already cleared views

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------

yes we have many things in our home to deal,but we have a close look in situation of Afghanistan.

Hi Bhai! This is just a hypothetical scenario. I'd like your views on whether India should be involved or not and if yes how should it go about it-the strategy and tactics

---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------

If I marry her she does.

In the end if someone comes to my home, my furniture may well get re-arranged out of necessity or the preference of others.

Basic hospitality may require this course of action.

If you can't handle that, then it is best that you prevent them getting inside in the first place rather than worrying about what they do once they are already in.

---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------

It's dramatically increased in mine too, but we benefit from military co-operation with America, so it's not all lose.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

There is no reason to stay.

As long as the Taliban know that we can still return and bomb them anytime we wish, Osama's face will still be hiding in his cave.

Chaos ensues? Afghanistan has never been more chaotic than it is right now. We can't actually make it worse by leaving.

If you you and leave NOW America's credibility is shot to pieces. Your ultimate aim of destroying terrorism is unfulfilled and the extremist cause will be hailed by all their supporters and their numbers will swell. The Psychological impact on all peoples involved will be tremendous. They started the fight but the onus is on you to finish it. Simply leaving things as they are bolting will actually screw up all the good that this invasion has done. Which if you take a minute to think about is a LOT. So abandoning Afghanistan now will be US's biggest mistake.

---------- Post added at 08:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:19 PM ----------

Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan, Georgia. I would say Chechnya, but they're not an independent country. Those countries Russians were directly involved in. You've also incited violence and political unrest in many of the former Soviet republics and else where in the world and then when war starts you send "volunteers" or "advisers" to fight for the side you want to win.

I love it when you people dip your collective wicks into other people's internal politics, but then come back and condemn the US when we do it. Stop trying to paint NATO as an evil empire and Russia as a benevolent country who minds their own business. You're not Switzerland...

Well said

---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------

Now I'd like to conduct a simple vote All in favour if Indian involvement say Yes and the rest obviously No.

Mine's Yes

[derk yall 0]

Shobhit: The soviet forces arived into afghanistan at the request of the socialistic-governament of Afghanistan. Also about the propaganda... did I wrote somewhere that i agreed with that or that? No, I did not, so dont place words into my mouth. I only wrote how it was. That doesnt make an soviet-brainwhashed-supporter of me.:j:

the Benefits to india. Is it realy wise to send military, wich mean a lot of money will be spend on expensive military hardware etc. (soldier sallary, maintenance) when the country itself have many more important things to solve? Like health care, pooverty or starvation? Wars were always an way to swift the public wievs from actual problems. India is a beautifull country, but I think it should be wiser to spend moeny on India's own problems rather than on a pandora box like Afghanistan.

[shobhit 10]

The Soviets "invaded'" Afghanistan on the 31st of Oct '79. Wherin they assassinated Amin the President of Amin (Operation storm-333) this was definately a hostile act and the precursor to the main Invasion. Now would you call this an assistance or an invasion? You are correct that Soviet Union did provide instance but then later it did launch an invasion.

And when is say '"soviet propaganda"' I meant it for comedic and dramatic effect to underscore a point. I am sorry if you took offence thought otherwise :)

Now when I say military intervention I do not mean a full blown conventional war I imply the use of SOF and Intelligence apparatus of India. And where do you guys get this idea of a famine ridden and impoverished India? I mean yeah we have these problems but it doesnt mean we cant sustain a conventional miltary assasult! we are more than capable to maintain a high tempo of military operations. And if you had read my earlier posts i explains the long term monetary and economic benefits to India if islamic extremism is eradicated. We spend more money on our defence budget than some 1st world nations and absolutely capable of carrying out military operations Eg: maintenance if siachen glacier posts.

[Big Mac 19]

Big mac: Afghanistan cannot be aplied, the Soviet forces were "invited" to support the legimit governament by the heads of states of Afghanistan.

Actually it can considering they killed the Afghan president who invited them and put a puppet in power..

Georgia is also not a good example, because the russian forces came to the country to stop the Gergian agresion against the Osetian people.

Who were being supported by Russia and launching attacks into Georgia and Georgia finally grew pair and said enough is enough and Russia invaded..

Also I could care less if India gets more involved. Although it's be better than working with the Pakistanis who are two faced..

Edited November 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[shobhit 10]

speaking of the Soviet invasion heres a detailed account of the attack on amin's palace

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/pubs/WP51_Web_Final.pdf