Ghost Recon:Island Thunder Campaign

[sic-disaster 311]

The High-Command mode would be nice, it doesnt work buggy at all.

If you have the BAF DLC, there is a single mission where you have to use it to attack a camp in the desert so you can see it for yourself.

It is quite easy to add it, too.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

ill have a look at it thanks - you know what the mission is called?

[mrcash2009 0]

Ice,

yes that other thread I posted in was all about that ...

Heres a Hybrid Command mission:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=7444

Just goto the bootcamp/training missions and check out high command from that. the BAF one is the scenario of which I cant remember the bloody name ... :( As said it the briefing where you have to use to attack a camp.

Hybrid and high command I have no real knowledge about it for MP to reassign on respawn etc so I cant speak for MP .. but SP, hybrid and use of high command = back to or as close to OGR way-point system as it can be. Its nothing more than adding modules and sync to leader with a init script.

EDIT: heres my reply to the other thread you started ...

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1779073&postcount=4

AI switch happening ingame but i was in MP Lan so maybe it's a SP only function

Works fine in SP, just make units playable, MP is a different bag I cant speak of.

EDIT2: Ive looked around and nowhere have I seen a definitive way for leader synced to high command if dies to then assign high command to the next leader so its a bit flakey for that, so high command and hybrid (high command module is still needed if using hybrid command) = leader dies no one gets control of the high command way-pointing system after that (effectively it gets lost when you switch if hes dead or switch from leader its synced too).

So that may limit mission if you team switch or have it so leader dies and mission still continues. If you want to force that feature then leader must survive, which is a bit less OGR and a bit more GRAW.

Edited November 6, 2010 by mrcash2009

[sic-disaster 311]

The name of that mission is Concrete Oasis, i just looked it up for you :)

[lightspeed_aust 681]

Ice,

yes that other thread I posted in was all about that ...

by the way, it's Lightspeed not Ice ;)

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 AM ----------

i just did a quick check and Hybrid does work in MP mode - and if teamleader dies there is a line of code that you can use to ensure that the HC switches over to the teamleader of the next group. i have never built this but i will make sure that this is incorporated in this campaign - its logical for GR.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

checked out the demo mission for this - easy to set up

---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

mrcash2009 -

what would be nice to know is how adjusting the groups conditions affects how they move and react. for example, when i switch them to "Aware" how will they behave and if I add movement "Limited" + "Aware" how that changes things. Will they move at all if I switch them to "Stealth".

Can you post that here if you know and I can build it into the readme so players know when they start using Hybrid.

cheers.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

quick update -

mission4 aka swamp airfield is done and dusted - just waiting on those enemy units.

[mrcash2009 0]

by the way, it's Lightspeed not Ice

Hehe ... sorry mate :) I PM'd Icebreakr and had Ice on the brain.

if team leader dies there is a line of code that you can use to ensure that the HC switches over to the team leader of the next group

I know that you can set a empty game logic and place in its init the exec code for HCS and that will work for all who is leader if one dies (no need to put it in units init line then). I synced the high command module to the game logic and that still works too without syncing to a specific leader (only found this out last night while playing around).

Although I have found that once leader dies ... all units under high command at that point loose connection to it so next leader has no control of those before. Yet HCS still works (because of the logic) and you can still use high command from scratch for whos left in the team. But if he dies .. again all controlled by him gets lost, and so on.

It never "retains" the subordinates under high command to the next player only starts from scratch for me (was testing it out last night).

So ... going back to you quote above ... what is that code you speak of, and does it retain the subordinates and control and pass to the next leader so you can carry on as normal? If you have the solution I will kiss you ... so be warned :) This is all a bit mission editing and off topic but PM me with anything like that as im very interested on how to get that to work.

BTW I only mess around for SP play I have no knowledge of any editing for MP as you may or may not know.

mrcash2009 -

what would be nice to know is how adjusting the groups conditions affects how they move and react. for example, when i switch them to "Aware" how will they behave and if I add movement "Limited" + "Aware" how that changes things. Will they move at all if I switch them to "Stealth".

Heres the BIS official detail:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/ArmA:_AI_Combat_Modes

My details compared to OGR:

Aware means they have raised weapon and dont stay in a lowered patrol formation and dont bound move and are steady patrol, pretty much how you are by default when you enter a game anyway. Limited means patrolling speed (no running along mainly walking) as aware. Stealth means quick movements with a hint of prone and using objects with a kind of bounding movement like Danger mode, stop check, move, crouch, prone ... shuffle along ... etc. (if you want them to whisper in stealth like OGR you need to use OA US units not arma2 units).

Although not like OGR stealth doesn't = they wont fire ever, you still have to tell them to "hold fire" and stealth for pure stealth. Unless they are close and under threat they will open fire (in OGR you could have them hold fire to the point of suicidal up close imminent danger until you told them otherwise).

Another thing that OGR still has over Arma2 after all this time is "At All Costs" ... the amount of requests for this is large, an override to any mode to just "run like hell", GL4 has something like it but not the best to implement just for that feature, hope BIS add this.

Another note too is that in OGR you had absolute control of switching modes in local teams, in Arma2 if they are in danger mode (of which they will auto switch too if under fire either way) they wont switch out of it under your say so if they feel they are still in danger ... yeh I know, so bear that in mind. Latest betas have it so "stuck in danger mode" is fixed and it seems a little more forgiving, but its not 100 percent, f they really dont want to be out of danger they wont (which means you have to deal with them bounding over-watch movement slowly until they note "clear" and return back to aware mode .. latest betas "seem" to fix it so they report clear a little more quickly).

One final thing, directional pointing for team you had the camera triangle view you could use in OGR map to turn and point them where to scan, in Arma you select whoever and can select "watch" and compass direction pre unit or group if you select all. Another way is select unit then select space + alt and you can point to direction for them to look, im only drawing parallels to OGR here so some of it might be obvious. You also have Scan Horizon option where a unit will 360 scan (looks a bit odd to watch a unit turning while crouched though) :)

So test under beta's too, probably not the very latest beta as that a CTD fun house, but beta before it might be best. It also might be good to hold off until the new patch arrives (around the time DLC arrives) to double test everything (just my 2 penny's worth).

Edited November 7, 2010 by mrcash2009

[lightspeed_aust 681]

very informative thanx Cash i will doing some testing of this.

[chammy 7]

Thank God, finally, someone is going to resurrect GR!! Well, kind of, but I am very excited if this can be done!!

[mrcash2009 0]

So your a GR nut too then Chammy :) Nice.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

quick update -

i have all objectives working for mission 5 and 7 although i may decide to redo mission 5 at a new location when Ice releases final version of the map. in this case, the current mission 5 would be tweaked and become a mission 9!

don't say i dont look after you ;)

i have tried to create that classic GR feel with the open objectives (complete tasks in any order) also adding triggers that depending on which order you complete an objective may result in something else happening at the other objective.

work continues.....

[lightspeed_aust 681]

ok i have built in the Hybrid High Command to test it on first mission - seems pretty solid and there are tricks to make the AI behave properly. for example, if you want them to go somewhere in Aware state then i set the waypoint and combat mode to danger (that holds them still) then i set speed to "limited" and state "aware" and they will move to waypoint cautiously. a little practice and it could be set up easily each time. in addition, you can hold Ctrl and issue multiple waypoints to each squad while they sit in Danger or Stealth mode and then release them to carry out their paths.

but the issue of losing the High Command subgroups if leader dies - that is a pain in the ass! definitely needs a fix!! if they sort that out then it is almost as good as OGR (original ghost recon) if not as good, better in some ways bcoz you can group everyone together if required, and other little things.

plus you can switch player in game in sp by pressing "T" which again is right on par with our beloved GR.

things progressing positively all round!!

[mrcash2009 0]

I see you got the hang of working around high command a bit then, its a little more to get used to with its "ways" :o

BTW the loosing HC via leader death is the crap part of the entire module (cant see why the module cant multi-link and sync to multiples .. that cant be done atm), but then I guess it makes it more tactical for leader to command more, I guess OGR let you do a bit of both and it will make it more interesting. Are you setting it up so if leader dies this mission carries on knowing the high command limits? Or is it leader dead = end?

Are you going to add some autosave point triggers incase?

BTW did you try syncing the high command module to an empty game logic instead of the leader? This will give any player high command not just leader, but you cant "pass down" once dead what was being controlled, that gets lots, although the next person can run high command to units still local to him, although this isnt a great idea I suppose.

I mean say you put 4 out of six units into high command, then leader dies, you loose the control and icon for those 4, although not sure if HCS can bring them back to your team again from HC state, if that could happen then it would work.

Im sure some scripter must know a way for the module to check and re-apply itself to the next user, retaining the connection to all and not getting lost is another issue I suppose.

Edited November 12, 2010 by mrcash2009

[lightspeed_aust 681]

@ mrcash

- yes i am getting used to HHC and the way the men react.

- the losing HC is a major problem so im having a rethink about this and how to implement it successfully.

- i will never use autosave in my missions...ever. :)

- i was using GameLogic (its the logical thing to use)

- not sure about the relevance of the whole hc subordinate thing.

- im sure there is a way to resync the HC to the next player - i will see if someone can figure it out.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

ok this is what i have done so far -

i use the Hybrid High Command system so i can form smaller groups and regroup them on leader and also provide Norrins Revive.

what happens now is....if i split off the groups and die i can either get a revive or respawn at a position. i will still keep command of all the units but they do lose their groups and i need to reassign them.

in addition, if though they all join my group again they dont come running back to the leader - they wait for further orders. so easy to reassign groups quickly and resume.

not perfect but its a bandaid.

for sp, i would prolly give all players revive - perhaps i could give team leader lots of revives/respawns so he is always in the game.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Lightspeed_aust

[mrcash2009 0]

Well it seems like a workaround is better than nothing to be honest and that sounds like something that will do the job.

So by using norrins re-spawn in that script that retains control and you can simple re assign, and you dont lose control of anyone split already ... that's nice I will look into that myself as i really wanted this for my own personal SP missions.

For SP maybe the revive should be a little limited for a bit more care taken?

- i will never use autosave in my missions...ever. :)

Haha ... yeh I know what your saying but I mentioned that purely on the basis of loosing leader and never having a workaround, which you now have.

Sounds good though, at least it means its no show stopper for keeping that OGR way-pointing system in.

How has it been through the new patch, and also hows the map playing with new patch .. getting any LOD blinking and weirdness at all with trees and such?

[lightspeed_aust 681]

no degradation noticeable from the patch in terms of HCC and waypoint control.

the map is unaffected and runs smooth as silk - just a stunning environment. and from what Ice tells me he has made several changes which make a brilliant map even better.

i will make sure to fine tune the revive (ill think about it first) so that you still have to be aware of the value of life in the mission which one of the essences of GR - protecting your life and the life of your team members is critical to success. (so many shooters out there have just abandoned that simple concept to their detriment).

[chammy 7]

So your a GR nut too then Chammy :) Nice.

Hey mrcash!

Yup, I sure am, followed every one of the addons of GR. But I wasn't a real fan of the new GRAW's that came out. For some reason GRAW lacked something that the original GR had. I got real immersed into GR 1 - 3 but GRAW, seemed more like a typical multiplayer game.

[lightspeed_aust 681]

i dont consider anything that followed Island Thunder on PC to be GR - all linear Hollywood crap.

Revive/respawn Update for SP - this is all looking solid now and i think SP players will be happy with results. (This is to allow HCS to run properly of course).

All squad members of the squad have up to 3 respawns (this can be adjusted for final version - either 0, 1, 2, or 3).

All squad members can heal themselves twice.

All can heal other squad members twice - except medic who has 10 revives available.

All can bandage other squad members three times to stop bleeding.

If the Leader is revived/respawns he will retain control of the squad but will have to split the squad again using Hybrid High Command - takes about 10 seconds. (The squad members will hold position at current location for new orders - except the Revivers*)

*Revivers - the closest 2 members of the squad will move to revive a downed squad member - one will provide cover while the other performs the heal. The downed squad member will also pop smoke for cover if he has smoke in his possession.

I think this is quite a realistic simulation of what would happen - and it means if you keep putting your team leader in harms way you will lose him (will the mission end if he dies? or do you play on without him? im not sure yet).

Edited November 14, 2010 by Lightspeed_aust

[sic-disaster 311]

GRAW sucked balls. It was Hollywood all over. And it felt really clunky too. + AI sucked. + maps sucked. + enemies being indicated by triangles sucked. Oh, i could go on and on.

OGR + expansions all the way :) I played the hell out of that game, i pretty much know the location of every enemy on every official map lol.

Actually bought a community-made mod collection on 7 DVD's, too :)

[mrcash2009 0]

For some reason GRAW lacked something that the original GR had

A brain. :)

i dont consider anything that followed Island Thunder on PC to be GR - all linear Hollywood crap.

Amen.

Nice additions Light, looking sweet.

One thing to add will you add battlefield clearance, IE ability to pick up and drag/move injured units? This would be a stronger case for MP but SP/MP would be good.

*Revivers - the closest 2 members of the squad will move to revive a downed squad member - one will provide cover while the other performs the heal. The downed squad member will also pop smoke for cover if he has smoke in his possession.

Do you as leader have any control over this? Is this for any member injured, IE do they auto do this so if I need them firing they ignore and carry on to revive? Just thinking about if they do this in the line of fire etc, or is this only if you instruct them too. Edited November 14, 2010 by mrcash2009

[lightspeed_aust 681]

its automatic but "AI will clear an enemy units it is aware of before auto reviving"

again i think in most cases, the right group is going to move to revive and also protect their downed man and with popped smoke its quite effective.

bare in mind too that Ghost Recon offered no revive at all - so i consider the revive to be an enhancement and more realistic then GR.

if it turns out not to be the best scenario, however, i could always disable this option but then it would be up to you the player to head over to carry out the revive or switch to another player to move to revive. i dont think you can tell your squad members to go and revive (so this auto-revive takes the hassle out of it for the most part).

[mrcash2009 0]

"AI will clear an enemy units it is aware of before auto reviving"

Enough said on the matter, great feature for it :)

If it ended up not being a good idea based on in-practice and feedback, maybe set-up a on/off toggle for it under quick command menu or something, with default "on" ... a bit like the latest incarnation of VFAI (AI rearming) mod by Robalo with its on/off feature, well, only if that was really needed, might add extra ball ache to proceedings to implement though :)

Edited November 14, 2010 by mrcash2009

[Drumheller 19]

Oh yes I cannot wait for this! :)