Large Gripe about PMC DLC!

[-=2RTR=- Somnus 0]

First!

I served almost a decade in the British Army as a frontline soldier in the Infantry, Tanks and lastly Recce. I am now working as a freelancer and I am witting this from Southern Afghanistan.

I am a Team Leader on a PSD team and have Nepalese and Ex-pats working under me.

I understand that there is a huge misunderstanding about my line of work and releasing a DLC that paints us with another dark brush in my view is very ignorant and self destructive. The average US soldier costs $22,000 a month to have in-country and the average Freelance Operator is only $15,000 and has to do far more varied roles.

There is a very large difference compared to the dirty word that is "Mercenary" and that which we are now. I have never in all my years compromised my honour or hoped to get "blooded" as the daft American's tend to do. It would seem that simple minds have latched onto the media storm that was "Blackwater" and is now "Xe"... Just because one silly little religious zealot yank allowed his lads to shoot everything they could doesn't mean that we are all like this.

If one was to pick up a history book one would also see that this National Service thing is very new and has never been done up until the last hundred years. Serving ones country is actually the new concept. Two things have been around since the beginning of man and those are: Prostitutes and Freelances.

All, I ask of you is that you try to curb this ridiculous misconception that we are all ruthless blood thirsty badies. It's not like that at all. most of the lads I have worked with have left the Army and Royal Marines because they were sick of the politics, and getting paid nothing for risking their lives for countries that don't care about their soldiers anyway.

How much press is put out about a soldiers death in a far off land that none of you will ever visit? None... How much press is put out about Paris Hiltons recent sex videos? Loads, and never ending... Well... These are some of the reasons I left... Nobody cares about soldiers. My wife would have gotten 20,000 pounds sterling if I died serving the UK when I was in Iraq in 2003 on Op Telic 1! And this is what the people and the government see as good compensation for my life and hers being destroyed. Well instead I can afford to pay for Millions of pounds of life insurance now and also have bought a house, cars and have money for my son to go to University once he is older. That seems a little more equal to the worth of my life. I also still get to do something that I am good at and love, and further to that I only spend 10 weeks away from my family instead of 8 months! Works for me and many other. But don't be fooled we don't have SF lads on standby to save us if the shit hits the fan we are on our own walking to Pakistan through the desert is a very real truth.

So before you start labeling us as "evil" and "murderers" and working both sides of the fence please just get comms with someone like me and listen to our side of whats going on as oppose to the merchants of chaos that is the media. We, as the boots on the ground don't care about selling news but we can elaborate on the facts.

Furthermore don't ever think that you can walk off the street and get into this line of work. The vetting is outrageous nowadays. Criminal background checks, military service checks, medicals, references, shots, and the other oodles of hoops we have to jump through for each and every contract are just getting higher and higher.

Don't ever forget we all served our countries and most if not all have fought for them and your rights too!

P.S. Just spent a load on a laptop that can run ArmA 2 and all DLC to help my rotations flyby! Best games I have ever played, been playing em since Operation Flashpoint 1985... Finally we can also play from the UK side of things, I can't be the only one sick of the American story or war. Please don't ruin my high opinion with false media fed ignorance. Thank you gentlemen that is me.

[kylania 567]

Stay safe out there. :) I for one don't believe all freelancers are murderers and don't really think that's the message BIS is trying for with this DLC. Of course you'll get that from some people, but not most I imagine.

[-=2RTR=- Somnus 0]

Well, it's always appreciated that there are people out there like you mate that can look with their own eyes and not the ones issued by the powers the be... Cheers!:D

[Muahaha 10]

Bad news sells while good ones don't. :)

Don't think this DLC is painting evil all over PMCs.

[-=2RTR=- Somnus 0]

This was the info I was working off of...

"RPS: Private contractors seem fairly, uh “of the momentâ€. Do they really fit with your military simulation themes?

JC: Right now, there’s no better gaming platform for military simulation than A2 and A2OA. Authenticity, moddability, extensibility, all of that remains at the heart of A2 and certainly guides our design decisions in PMC as well. We’re not talking about a balls-out Hollywood rendition of contractors; PMC is a legitimate faction to add, and are a – perhaps unfortunate – reality of modern theatres of war.

KM: Technically, no. But the PMC faction is set as Independent, which means in the editor, you can make it either friendly to or enemy of NATO forces. Also, contractor’s models and vehicles will have space where you can put a company logo. It will be fully customizable, not limited to our own ION Inc. For your missions, you can create whole new PMC companies with long questionable histories.

JC: Introducing another OPFOR to Takistan really was something that we looked closely at doing, with several interesting concepts drafted. Right now, though, PMC offered us the best way to provide interesting content and expand upon the scope and depth of the ‘Armaversum’, supporting our ongoing development of engine features, stability improvements and optimisations."

From a recent interview... To me it seemed very media viewpoint driven, not fact driven opinions.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Mate, I understand what you're saying - but is this really about the DLC or rather the world community-at-large's opinion?

The media I've seen concerning BIS' PMC DLC doesn't seem to portray a negative image of PMCs. I'd hazard so far as to say they've taken pains to remain objective.

[-=2RTR=- Somnus 0]

Now in truth...

The Taliban, mainly just gangs of thugs and mafia types now, who we paint with the brush of 'Taliban' for ease of ID'ing for the simple minded media have been using "mercenaries" since the invasion lead by Russia in the 80's. But these are not Westerners and nore can they be. We have to have certian things in our passports to justify us being in country, we also need to have certian documentation on us that would really not allow us to serve under the 'Taliban' unless we never wanted to return to our home countries. Thus if you ever want to go home you can't work for the enemy. Not that we would want to as flip-flops, dish-dashes, foot bread and no toilet roll are not generally anyones idea of a good time. Joking aside BI might as well make the US faction selectable as enemy too then.

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 PM ----------

Mate, I understand what you're saying - but is this really about the DLC or rather the world community-at-large's opinion?

The media I've seen concerning BIS' PMC DLC doesn't seem to portray a negative image of PMCs. I'd hazard so far as to say they've taken pains to remain objective.

That's fine mate... hope your right... As long as everybody sees us as part of the solution then I'm doing my part as a professional...

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Heard loud and clear sabelzahntiger. Its good to hear the opinions of people who actualy know. But I have no problem with BIS doing what they think is required to create workable story elements for a game.

Like you say security is one of oldest profesions know to man and if PMC's regularly experienced the stuff of BIS stories then they would be mentioned more often in the history books. But for the most part they do their job well and so remain un-noticed.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

Sadly pretty much every profession on the planet has idiots that get all the bad press and ruin it for everyone.

Personally I think the pay rates and beneits for our armed forces are nothing short of criminal and I certainly wouldn't hold it against you (or anyone else) for wanting to earn a living using your skills. I know I'm not alone in this opinion and I'd like to think that BIS have at least a shred of common sense so let's reserve judgement on the representation of PMCs in the new DLC until the campaign is actually available.

Edit : Also the part about the PMC being independant is the right way to do it imo. That way there's a lot of scope to create missions. You could set up a good missions on Zargabad (for example) with SFs having to take out or capture a target guarded by his own private army.

Edited October 15, 2010 by TechnoTerrorist303

[-=2RTR=- Somnus 0]

Roger your last lads...

I would like to hear someone from BIS' opinion on this matter too... And it really is very nice to see the caliber of intellect kicking around on this forum.

Man, I really do wish I could make money at home playing games... HA! I wouldn't have to be out in this dump with prickly heat all over my back and the locals trying to blow me up all the time!

I need to sort out a degree in game building or get myself out there as an Advisor...

Again, nice to see independent thought kicking around out there still...

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

First!

I served almost a decade in the British Army as a frontline soldier in the Infantry, Tanks and lastly Recce. I am now working as a freelancer and I am witting this from Southern Afghanistan.

So, you are a ex soldier, working with soldiering as a freelancer in a current war zone. How is that not mercenary work?

You are basically a soldier, doing soldier stuff for a private company.

Putting fancy words on it like advanced security or something is just as deluded as saying water boarding is only advanced interrogation.

On the one hand you say "Hay, wait a minute, dont call us X...", but at the same time you imply having similar negative views like the mainstream about the word mercenary... Which technically isnt against the law to be. I just find that a bit hypocritical tbh.

Lets call a spade a spade.

I dont think Koreans where that pleased about how they where depicted in Crysis, but they probably got that it was only fiction. I wouldnt take DLC that personal even if it where to turn out focusing on the more darker themes of the security business. No offense, but its just a game, get over it.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

I think the general gist of what he was saying is that the word "mercenary" conjures up bad images thanks to the media reporting on RL PMCs. I agree if he's a freelance soldier being paid then he is technically a mercenary in the literal sense.

Also, I'm sure the NKs wouldn't have been happy at all about Crysis but then how many of them would even have computers let alone be allowed to know of the existence of the evil western entertainment product.

[Tonci87 163]

I am damn sure that crysis wasn´t released in Nothern Korea

@Sabelzahntiger I fully understand and respect what you do, and why you do it. Maybe you should contact BIS and offer them some sort of advise for this DLC. maybe you could tell them more about what the life of a PMC is all about

[pettka 694]

I think the general gist of what he was saying is that the word "mercenary" conjures up bad images thanks to the media reporting on RL PMCs. I agree if he's a freelance soldier being paid then he is technically a mercenary in the literal sense.

There is one huge difference between mercenaries and PMCs - PMCs act according to international laws. Imagine economical blockade to be put on Takistan by UN, mercenaries are going to work for Takistan, but PMCs are not.

You may call that alibism, or however you like it, but no-one sane would put PMCs as pure baddies nor pure heroes. There are some harsh individuals even between PMCs, but reputation is everything and no company may allow its members to behave badly and continue to work on this market.

Edited October 15, 2010 by pettka

[sick1 13]

In my opinion its just being used to create a story. No one is going to obtain a harsh look at mercenaries from playing a video game unless they are dumb to begin with. So what if some American mercs killed a bunch of civilians. How many civilians have the Taliban killed? War is hell.

[Xerxes-17 10]

For every PMC you don't shoot..

I'll shoot 3!

[ziiip 1]

My wife would have gotten 20,000 pounds sterling if I died serving the UK when I was in Iraq in 2003 on Op Telic 1! And this is what the people and the government see as good compensation for my life and hers being destroyed.

I am sorry but exactly who forced you to be a soldier...?

[ray243 11]

Ha! I remember the taliban been portrayed as freedom fighters in the 80s, and look what are they now!

[-=2RTR=- Somnus 0]

I am sorry but exactly who forced you to be a soldier...?

Nobody forced me to be a soldier... I was merely stating a fact not looking for your sympathy or lack thereof... If I were you, I would watch my mouth. We don't need to start picking away at things that are not the focus of this post.

I would hope we could keep this sane and adult as oppose to slipping down the forum roller-coaster and start trying to argue for the sake of arguing.

A mercenary these days is ANYONE that will pose or claim to fight as a soldier for ANYONE who is willing to pay, he may not even be formally trained.

PMC/PSC are very strongly regulated by NATO, the DOD, MOD, Client and also the local government. Our hands are tied tighter then anyones. If we do shoot the Civ-pop or Taliban then we can never work in this country again, so unlike a US, British Soldier who may or may not be charged, even if we don't end up in an Afghan prison we will still have to leave never to return no matter if we did so with our human rights and right to self defense in mind.

So... PMC/PSC's are nothing like Mercenaries anymore... And should be very much detached from this in the media as to stop the Civ-pop back home from further cutting money and tying our hands tighter behind our backs when it comes to ROE... That's the point, and if BIS keeps the bad press going then men like me who don't function well in our homes as "regular joes"... turn to drugs, alcohol, and suicide. You should see how many former SAS who have tried to become a full fledge civi have committed suicide. Try it, join your Army deploy to a lovely little paradise like this one and then try to integrate into the Civ-pop without having full fledge resentment. I dare you.

Anyway... The point is: It would be nice if BIS would talk to someone with my skills and knowledge before releasing something that may or may not further destroy the image of people like me. If only to separate the terms PMC/PSC from Mercenary.

If you are going to try to do nothing more then degrade this post then please I ask you, if anything to just respect the people that have died for your countries, like some of my mates have. Just keep your bad mouthing and pointless political views to the coffee houses on your campus when your trying to fain intellect so you can rag some liberal hair bird rotten.

I am not saying don't give your opinions just don't start saying things like the above quote, there is really no need for it and the fact is I never force anyone to be an obese greasy useless underachieving lay about who rather sit in his parents basement touching himself whilst reading Jane's all the worlds small arms... Get a grip lad...

---------- Post added at 02:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 AM ----------

Ha! I remember the taliban been portrayed as freedom fighters in the 80s, and look what are they now!

Theres no Taliban left mate, US, Brits, Dutch, etc have smashed the granny outta em... Just organized criminal gangs... We have dealt with a couple and they may have been Taliban but they have no links to Al-Qaida, just criminals. Like I said it's just a lot easier for soccer moms back in the US, UK, Canada, etc to understand one enemy when they watch teli...

[Zipper5 74]

You need to realize that this is the internet and people will say exactly what you don't want to hear in order to get a reaction from you. Therefore, don't play into their hands, as you did with most of that post. Otherwise it will be you being offended by them that will cause stupidity to break out in the discussion. ;)

[-=2RTR=- Somnus 0]

You need to realize that this is the internet and people will say exactly what you don't want to hear in order to get a reaction from you. Therefore, don't play into their hands, as you did with most of that post. Otherwise it will be you being offended by them that will cause stupidity to break out in the discussion. ;)

Yeah, sounds good mate... I'm still waiting for age to simmer my blood... Cheers for that...

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, this is a very semantic discussion, but not very convincing IMO with all the deserved respect.

You were a soldier, you didn't earn enough money so now you're doing the same job for private companies rather than states. So that's a mercenary job for me : being a private soldier. The tiny difference may be that you're working for subcontractors of States. But mercenaries always worked directly or indirectly for states.

Privatizing the war is a big and fundamental mistake IMHO, cause it shouldn't be (only) a matter of money. When nobody really knows why a war happened apart from the economical point of view, then it's a major step back of our civilization.

[zampe 0]

First!

I served almost a decade in the British Army as a frontline soldier in the Infantry, Tanks and lastly Recce. I am now working as a freelancer and I am witting this from Southern Afghanistan.

I am a Team Leader on a PSD team and have Nepalese and Ex-pats working under me.

Something like my past just as I have served in war as a minor, and trained on the ground in real combat situations with the "right" ammunition and the enemy. ;)

[-=2RTR=- Somnus 0]

Something like my past just as I have served in war as a minor, and trained on the ground in real combat situations with the "right" ammunition and the enemy. ;)

...Roger...

Pretty damn good games coming out of BIS, eh!? After so many years this DLC is the only little complaint I have...

[maddogx 13]

Pretty damn good games coming out of BIS, eh!? After so many years this DLC is the only little complaint I have...

Presuming that it portrays PMCs exclusively in a negative light, which isn't a given just yet. ;)